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Warning to the World: This is the New America

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posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 05:24 PM
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puppets need to be stupid and lifeless...it was not our vote that put the mindless wonder there




posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 06:31 PM
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I don't see how you say that America is tyranical when from a historical perspective we have more freedom now then we have in a very long time. There are plenty of things that still need work, but its shocking to me when things like this are written and people lap it up like its gospel.

But, lets just look at a few other points in American history and see where we stand now. What about the Imperial period? Hawaii became a state more or less at gun point to allow the sugar plantations to escape the tariff. Cuba became a protectorate because of businesses there. Basically we wouldn't leave until they agreed to limiting their sovereignty. Large areas were taken from Mexico in a war that was intentionally started. Panama revolted against Columbia with the assistance of a French company and several U.S. destroyers so we could build the canal. The Phillipines were freed from Spanish rule only to revolt against the U.S. in rebellion that was far more costly to put down then the original purchase of the land.... This was all basically before or at the turn of the 20th century. Since then yes we've moved into other countries, especially during the cold war, but we haven't made them territories and they have sovereign governments.

Looking at our reasons to go into World War I, well basically it came down to geography. We would have been very happy to put our industries to the grind stone providing supplies for both sides but the allies were a heck of a lot easier to get to. Oh, and how about the Espionage and Sedition Act? Correct me if I'm wrong but it made the Patriot Act pale in comparison in the manner in which it was used. Granted the potential for harm from the Patriot act is arguably greater, but I'm looking at actual occurances and results. The Espionage and Sedition Act made it illegal to impede the government or war effort as well as illegal to SPEAK OUT AGAINST EITHER THE GOVERNMENT OR THE WAR. People who broke this law were subject to $10,000 in fines and up to 20 years in jail. It was used, frequently. Over 2000 people were prosecuted and over half of those led to convictions. You even had Victor Berger, an elected member of the House of Representatives from Wisconsin, that was essentually told by the rest of Congress to go home. I've heard plenty of dissent in Congress, I've yet to see the Republican majority tell a Democrat that because he had differing views he could not participate in the House of Representatives. I also have yet to hear of the patriot act being used to prevent free speech. I'm sure with all of the bloggers, people here, and scrutiny that exists today that it would get out so why would they even bother?

Moving on to WWII. The statement was made that Europe would look very different if the United States had not entered the war. I assert that this is a true statement when you look at not what America did militarily, but just in one arrangement made with Great Britain. I believe its accpeted fact that Englad was rather bad shape before Roosevelt circumvented the neutrality laws to essentually give them a bunch of destroyers in return for 99 year leases on military bases. I also thought it was pretty commonly held that the reason the Allies won the war in the end is that America outproduced the German war machine. So while the British may have been holding their own, it was in large part due to American aid. Not diminishing the British war effort, it was phenominal, just presenting the whole story in that regard.

But anyway that was kind of a side line, we're talking about how evil America is and how the Pentagon is trying to take over the world, right?

So, lets look at the current situation. We have a president that has been elected twice by the people of the country. I don't care what you say the facts say that he was ELECTED, twice. If you look at the electoral maps by county he won across the country rather dramatically so he does represent the country. The patriot act while being a two edged sword capable of doing a lot of damage in the wrong hands has instead done a lot of good and kept America safe, we have not had another attack on U.S. soil since 911 and yes there have been attempts, only a few of which the public is told about so as to keep their sources safe and usable. Yes we went into Iraq and there haven't been any WMD's found, (I really think they're in Syria but thats the topic of another post and I'm trying to stick to things I can back up... well I can back up the whole load of partially enriched Uranium they found) but they just held elections. They aren't a protectorate, they are a sovereign nation of their own and the American backed party DIDN'T WIN. We went into Afghanistan to oust the Taliban and now there is a government of the people there as well. Both governments will take time to grow, but they are a far cry better then what existed before the actions of the U.S. and they are governments elected by their populations.

But finally when it comes to it, we have more freedom of information then we have ever had. This community is proof of that and the fact that we are having this discussion is further proof. There is not one central government controlled media or even a few powerhouses like there were for a long time. We have this whole new media that has evolved on the Internet and the blogosphere where information can get out faster and to more people then ever before. So, in conclusion, I think instead of the facist state you are claiming us to be we've made a lot of progress. We've made our fair share of mistakes along the way, but we've done a lot of good as well.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:21 PM
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ok.if this is a new america then i want to hear the new news...
instead of what happened on the street corner and all that hooplah...i want to hear about the real crimes...the big crimes the ones we do not hear about..the ones that go practically unnoticed .
I would like to hear what the corporations etc are doing..

there is a crime going on right here in my town..and the D.E.C poloticians etc etc are all involved....we the people stood up before it..and our houses/lifes threatened...the town and we the township threatened to be taken to court..
we could have had more of a fighting chance..if older folk were not stuck in their narrow mind syndrome/ignorance/uneducated ways
we could have had more of a chance if we had more money

IF THIS is the new world..another twist...i would like to hear about the posotive things for more than 10 seconds......

instead of the streetcorner activities for 20 minutes. ovr and over..

i feel the news we see and the law we have..is giving us a false sense of security...dont get me wrong..we need law and protection...but we are not being protected from the real crimes..the ones that affect all of us..

If this is the new world i dont like it...there is a lot of good here,thou the bad can outweigh it..
i would rather see us be more archaic rather than turn into a big piece of plastic.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:34 PM
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sorry to make a post about nothing but I was getting a little freaked out by the 666 in my post total. Sorry, superstisous side of me I guess, even though I try to reason out of such things they still have their bite.



posted on Feb, 16 2005 @ 09:48 PM
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Man, you don't NEED a president, the Internet IS the president.

People do not need to die in wars now that the Internet exists.

There are people who know this and they want to lie to you. They do it right in front of your face and THIS CONFIRMS THEIR POWER among them. They are convincing you that there are really only two issues (hence, two politicial parties of any value, two colors of states in America, etc). It is television that tells people these lies.

There are TELEVISION-WIDE media blackouts that are OBVIOUS to anyone with eyes to see. The Internet has confirmed this and there can be no doubt. Humanity has a chance to change everything but once the Internet is gone, that moment will be gone. I don't believe John Titor was a time traveller, at least not one that gave a crap about you and me, but his words ring true: "You are the ones who had it all and you wasted it. You threw it all away."

Wake up to the philosophy you are perpetuating, friend. Your future progeny will thank you for it.

In the interests of trying to help, here's what I propose:

STEP ONE: Take control of where our taxes are spent. Payment of income tax remains the same but the PEOPLE control where the dollars go. We elect independant accountants rather than senators or congressmen (who really do us no good anyway). These elected-accountants serve as sort of volunteer-national-guardsmen of our taxes and they police the following change of the income tax: When you pay your taxes, there are ten boxes into which each citizen will write their desired preference for the spending of their tax dollar. EXAMPLE: If you like the idea of Space Travel and want to give ALL your taxes to NASA, you may put 100% in that box and leave the others at zero. "Space Travel" occurs to me as a box I'd want on my income tax option form. I'd probably also vote for the "Free Medicine" box, but of course the boxes will be debated by the people. NO OTHER parts of the government get any tax-money. OVERNIGHT we could have global health and happiness from just this step.

STEP TWO: Destroy television and promote the Internet. Help every citizen to realize that looking at a box rather than living one's life is the road to personal destruction. The internet is like the collective human brain. We must be encouraged to use it. Television lies to us and kills us. We must end it.

STEP THREE: Use Internet chat rooms and message forums to organize global awareness of facts (ATS comes to mind) and then to ACT on those facts in a non-violent way. Something as simple as staying home from work on a pre-organized day could be a major overnight barometer of GLOBAL OPINION. If we know, from day to day, what we really think, we will quickly alter this Earth so that we can all have more satisfaction.

Real eyes realize real lies. (I saw that in somebody's sig and liked it. It's true.)

With the creation of the Internet and the TCP/IP network, the American Military Industrial Complex has paid off in the JACKPOT of human efforts. The question is: do we have the collective sense to seize the moment? That's the point EKC was making in his original post: Our leaders and our American think-tanks have come up with these ideas I posited and a HUNDRED BETTER ONES. They will not let you see them because the MACHINE HAS TO KEEP RUNNING. It is kind of like when the Church wouldn't let people own the bible. America has chosen outright war and that means EVERY AMERICAN HAS CHOSEN WAR either actively or by omission of action. Your television will not say this to you. This is the New America (unless we can change it).

The Internet can free us ALL. People who talk about how wonderful it is that we don't have slavery or colonialism anymore ARE PUTTING SPIN ON THESE ISSUES. They do not want you to know the truth which is that SLAVERY WAS ALWAYS KNOWN TO BE BAD.

Wake up.

[edit on 16-2-2005 by smallpeeps]



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by smallpeeps
it just sorta 'happened' that the President's KID ends up in the Oval Office. Wow. What are the odds?


No shiZit, man.
No! Wait!
It's a COWINKYDINK!:p


Cognitive dissonance is a sad thing.


Excellent link.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 11:54 AM
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World, here's the plan. Forget the war on terror. We're moving into a new phase of BushCo.'s pursuit of global domination: The War on TYRANNY!


Anti-US alliances forming? No biggie. Really. Rummy, P-Goss and Tricky Dick's got it all under control. And Dubya's down at the ranch getting his proper dose of programming for his next big speech. Here's how it goes..



A Peek Behind Bush II’s ‘War on Tyranny’
by F. William Engdahl
www.globalresearch.ca 13 February 2005
The URL of this article is: globalresearch.ca...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Part I:

Control all ’tyrannical’ world oil chokepoints

In recent public speeches, George W. Bush and others in the Administration, including Condi Rice, have begun to make a significant shift in the rhetoric of war. A new ‘War on Tyranny’ is being groomed to replace the outmoded War on Terror. Far from being a semantic nuance, the shift is highly revealing of the next phase of Washington’s global agenda.

In his 20 January inaugural speech, Bush declared:

"It is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."

Bush repeated the last formulation, ‘ending tyranny in our world’ in the State of the Union. (author’s emphasis). In 1917 it was a "war to make the world safe for democracy," and in 1941 it was a "war to end all wars."

The use of tyranny as justification for US military intervention marks a dramatic new step on the road to Washington’s quest for global domination. Washington, of course today, is shorthand for the policy domination by a private group of military and energy corporate giants, from Halliburton to McDonnell Douglas, from Bechtel to ExxonMobil and ChevronTexaco, not unlike that foreseen in Eisenhower’s 1961 speech warning of excessive control of government by a military-industrial complex.
globalresearch.ca...



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone

EKC - you're from the U.S. right ? Ever thought about moving, to CANADA or somewhere ?

Just wondering ?


"If you don't like it here, get the f**k out!" Moron.


EastCoastKid clearly has reason to believe that his civil liberties are threatened by the US government. If he hated America I'm sure he would leave. But it is because he cares about his country that he speaks out about the oppressive nature of the government.

It is his right and his moral obligation to stand up and question the government.

Your idea of patriotism is upside down.

Patriotism is NOT loyalty to the government.
Patriotism is looking out for the best interests of the people of the country you love.

If you insist on condescending to these patriotic Americans who wish to uphold the constitution, I think you should leave. Why not go and live in North Korea? You can bow down to government oppression all you want there...



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad

Originally posted by elevatedone

EKC - you're from the U.S. right ? Ever thought about moving, to CANADA or somewhere ?


Your idea of patriotism is upside down.

Patriotism is NOT loyalty to the government.
Patriotism is looking out for the best interests of the people of the country you love.

If you insist on condescending to these patriotic Americans who wish to uphold the constitution, I think you should leave. Why not go and live in North Korea? You can bow down to government oppression all you want there...


Amen to that. You know, it sure would be funny if a Democrat actually won back the White House and pulled this kind of stuff. Can you imagine the intensity of rage and outcry if it were Democrats shoving their beliefs down everyone's throats - and labeling any dissenters the way these guys have? For some reason, my fellow Republicans seem utterly incapable of seeing things from any perspective other than their own. It's maddening.

All these white folks out there - especially Christians think they are so right on everything. So above it all. They have no idea how they even sound when they start pointing their finger of judgement at everyone - 'speshly them dirty AyeRabs. What they fail to realize is one of these days in the not-so-distant future, their white skin ain't gonna keep 'em protected anymore. At some point, they're gonna start going after us Christians, too. And it ain't gonna be pretty. NOTE to conservative Christians: Guess what? You're nothing but but chattle to the plutocracy. When they see fit, they will turn on you, too.

I keep talking about this b/c the more people who become aware, the harder it will be for the government to go full-tilt-boogy on our a$$. Like Reagan, I believe in the end time prophecies and I believe in freewill. When these things will occur, is up to us.

So, in de words of de reggae mon, "GET UP, STAND UP! STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!"



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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From wikipedia:


The more well-known form of dissonance, however, is post-decisional dissonance. Many studies have shown that people will subjectively reinforce decisions or commitments they have already made. In one simple experiment, experimenters found that bettors at a horse track believed bets were more likely to succeed immediately after being placed. According to the theory, the possibility of being wrong is dissonance-arousing, so people will change their perceptions to make their decisions seem better. This is the basis of the foot-in-the-door technique in sales, and possibly confirmation bias.

Post-decisional dissonance may be increased by the importance of the issue, the length of time the subject takes to make or avoid the decision, and the extent to which the decision could be reversed.

So as history goes on and voting for Bush seems like an obviously worse and worse thing, the Bush folks will cleave to him and support him even more so that they can avoid dissonance. Feeling out of step with the world is something most people will avoid at all costs.

It can be said that humans are cows in that they are most easily led. However I find it interesting that one of the most advanced human religions (Hindu) sees the COW as a divine creature. Holy crap is that not funny?



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 03:36 PM
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I voted for you! Im quite frightened at that aspect of our reality.. its insane how numb we are to the invisible forces at motion...



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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Indigo_Child posted on 2/10/2005 at 04:45 AM Post Number: 1158986 (post id: 1180879)
Your country is in a sad, sad, state, and it is beyond repair today. America is going to hell, and nobody can stop it.


Thank you for your interest in our country, but I believe that we are getting along just fine. I understand there are a few who disagree, but the majority still believes that the United States is a great place to live. Not only illegal immigrants but legal immigrants are coming into our country all of the time. I don't believe we force them to come here.


marg6043 posted on 2/10/2005 at 07:39 AM Post Number: 1159471 (post id: 1181364)
In my opinion if a government is to take control of a population it will do it slowly and it will start with the remote areas and the move on to the big cities, why because if you start in the big cities the first thing to do is run to the country side, well that make sense.


marge,
I was born and brought up in rural communities. My family still lives in rural
communities, I now live in a small city. The rural communities are most like they were 50 - 60 years ago. And the cities are where all the terrible violence, protests and rebellions are going on. What is wrong with this picture? Did they actually start in the cities already?


EastCoastKid posted on 2/11/2005 at 09:01 AM Post Number: 1162149 (post id: 1184042)
The violence in many U.S. cities and towns is out of control. You know what the most sickening aspect of this is? I truly believe the powers that be like it that way. You know..give 'em guns and let 'em kill each other.. it's easier for us that way..


Maybe the values of the rural countryside should be accepted in the cities?


ADVISOR posted on 2/10/2005 at 08:02 AM Post Number: 1159544 (post id: 1181437)
*Faces toward the Red, White & Blue*
Oh say can you see...........................................
Praise the power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto-"In God is our Trust,"
And the star-spangled banner is triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Not all is lost yet, so long as the above rings true, here stands a chance there is more than just me and you. I've said it before and will say it again,
United We Stand, the rest is not an option.


This is what we must do, stand united and make the politicians pay attention to us. They will pay attention if we vote with knowledge and not sound bites. I don't understand why so many just give up when our founding fathers put the vote into our hands. All we need to do is become informed, (ats) and vote.


esdad71 posted on 2/10/2005 at 08:06 AM Post Number: 1159557 (post id: 1181450)

I have voted esdad71 for the Way Above Top Secret award. I have two more votes this month.

Start with your local government, and run for a public office. Become a vice at your local commission meetings. If you take the time, they will listen to you. It is their job. Get off your and do it. Even if you cannot change the government for the world, you can make difference for your own community.


This is the only true way to change the government if you do not like it. Start to take part in owning your community. Take part in politics. Vote in all elections. Make an effort to find out what is happening. Don't complain about bad government if you do not participate.



TrueLies posted on 2/13/2005 at 04:58 AM Post Number: 1166078 (post id: 1187971)
I have voted TrueLies for the Way Above Top Secret award. I have one more vote left for this month.

"Outwardly, things look/seem normal.. that is, until you disagree w/the powers that be and raise your voice."

How devious of them!

why are you trying to instill fear?!

Isn't that what you bitch about them for doing?!


The land of the brave and the home of the free. I believe the citizens of this great country need to become informed and not listen to scare tactics.
Be an informed voter.



posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 06:58 PM
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thehamsamiam posted on 2/13/2005 at 06:28 AM Post Number: 1166278 (post id: 1188171)
"I am wondering if the Pentagon would allow Americans to take control of their Congress again."

The Pentegon has no control of the Congress. The only way for the people to take the congress back is to have these clowns aply term limits to themselfs, which they wont. You would want to give up a job like represenitive or Senator. Where else in the world can John Kerry blow off 76% of his work days and still be paid and keep his job. Where else would a drunk degenerate like teddy kennedy find work.

Term limits would be nice, but why would we need them if we had voters. There is no one twisting arms of voters to make them continue to vote for John Kerry or Ted Kennedy. Voters want them. So by term limits you would be imposing your will over the voters.


smallpeeps posted on 2/16/2005 at 10:50 AM Post Number: 1174802 (post id: 1196695)
Yeah, and isn't it interesting that in a supposed democracy where "anyone can be president", the guy who gets the job just HAPPENS to be the son of the guy who had it four years ago?! Duh, I guess it just sorta 'happened' that way. Out of 250 million Americans, many of whom are better thinkers, communicators, leaders, etc. it just sorta 'happened' that the President's KID ends up in the Oval Office. Wow. What are the odds?

Again, mostly the voters own fault. How many citizens actually voted in the primaries?

Name recognition is important and money for advertising plays a big part, but now with the internet couldn't we spread the word of a candidates campaign?
This last election cycle few actually voted in the later primaries. It was all decided after a couple of primaries and the rest of the country didn't bother to vote. This is the chance for people like you and me to make a choice. Be brave and make a choice. Don't listen to the crap about your vote not counting. That is a self -fulfilling myth. We generally have a good choice of candidates in the primaries. So use your vote and stop complaining that our government is being taken away. We are giving it away because we will not vote.


greenmansmind posted on 2/16/2005 at 03:21 PM Post Number: 1175514 (post id: 1197407)
there is a crime going on right here in my town..and the D.E.C poloticians etc etc are all involved....we the people stood up before it..and our houses/lifes threatened...the town and we the township threatened to be taken to court..

I'm sorry I don't understand what you are talking about.



EastCoastKid posted on 2/17/2005 at 06:48 AM Post Number: 1177157 (post id: 1199050)
For some reason, my fellow Republicans seem utterly incapable of seeing things from
any perspective other than their own. It's maddening.

Excuse me, are you a Republican? Your ideas seem more like you would not support any Republican platform. Perhaps that is what you find maddening, you are in the wrong group.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Mahree

EastCoastKid posted on 2/17/2005 at 06:48 AM Post Number: 1177157 (post id: 1199050)
For some reason, my fellow Republicans seem utterly incapable of seeing things from
any perspective other than their own. It's maddening.

Excuse me, are you a Republican? Your ideas seem more like you would not support any Republican platform. Perhaps that is what you find maddening, you are in the wrong group.


I'm a lifelong Republican, of the Conservative variety, believe it or not. The Neo Conservatives came in and hijacked the party. There is now a civil war going on from within. There are the realists, or Paleo-Conservatives (myself, Pat Buchanan, Scowcroft and the like) VS. the NEO Conservatives. They are NOT conservatives at all.
I will not be pushed out of my party by these thugs. I will, however, do everything in my power, to expose them for what they are and run them out. They are ex-Democrats, by the way. The Dems would n't listen to their hairbrained, racist ideology so they jumped ship and infected the GOP.

My political views have changed quite a bit since 9-11. That has to do with knowledge I have gained since and experiences. I'm still a hawk on DEFENSE, as we used to say, but I am also MUCH MORE open minded and accutely aware of the need to protect our civil liberties. For that, I get accused of being a liberal.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
The Neo Conservatives came in and hijacked the party. There is now a civil war going on from within.


I would even go further and say the Neo Cons have hijacked the white house and all forgien policies of the United States, replaced your laws and rights with their own.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
I would even go further and say the Neo Cons have hijacked the white house and all forgien policies of the United States, replaced your laws and rights with their own.


You are absolutely, 100% correct. This nation has been HIJACKED. Unwittingly aided and abetted by a population asleep at the wheel.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
You are absolutely, 100% correct. This nation has been HIJACKED. Unwittingly aided and abetted by a population asleep at the wheel.


Neo cons openly admit, which is alarming, that the world would be a better place if we all lived like America and by their style. So they've hijacked a nation and now want to hijack the world?? hmmm....not good
*shakes head*



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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Yes. These are the most brazen, hubristic breed of humans(?) that have shown themselves since the Nazis. And so many Republicans blindly follow them. (They confuse conservatism with racism.) Maybe its b/c deep down, they too are just as racist.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by EastCoastKid
Yes. These are the most brazen, hubristic breed of humans(?) that have shown themselves since the Nazis. And so many Republicans blindly follow them. (They confuse conservatism with racism.) Maybe its b/c deep down, they too are just as racist.


exactly,
Neo cons needs to be sorted out and removed. They need to stop corrupting people within the white house so they can carry out their "campaign" in the middle east.



posted on Feb, 19 2005 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
exactly,
Neo cons needs to be sorted out and removed.


They need to be rounded up, charged with war crimes and put on trial for all the world to see. Then, when they are convicted, perhaps we could throw their miserable, cowardly a$$es into Abu Ghraib. I wonder how they'd feel about their policies if it were they on the receiving end?



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