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Did Islam Come From Babylon?

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posted on Oct, 27 2017 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1


Text a reply to: Seede "circumambulating" 7 times was pagan related to the number of star planets . I wonder if there is a relationship in the story of Jericho some how . "Jericho's name in Hebrew, Yeriẖo, is generally thought to derive from the Canaanite word Reaẖ ("fragrant"), but other theories hold that it originates in the Canaanite word for "moon" (Yareaẖ) or the name of the lunar deity Yarikh for whom the city was an early centre of worship.[18] Jericho's Arabic name, ʼArīḥā, means "fragrant" and also has its roots in Canaanite Reaẖ "

My question was not meant to discredit anyone's religion but was offered only as a question. I do believe you are correct in that the circumambulating was influenced by the heavenly bodies and we do understand that the Amorites did have this crop ritual called Akitu in which they offered thankful prayers to Nanna/Sin while circumambulating their planting and their harvest twice each year. We also know from literature that this ritual originated in Ur of the land of Shinar under Nimrod and Terach [Abram's father].

In lite of this, we also have evidence [belief] that this moon god ritual as well as portions of their cultures also influenced many strains of the Sumarian tribes religions including the very Hebrews who marched around Jericho seven times with their ark of the covenant before them. So in this respect I am not taking shots at just Islam but at the many cultures that were spawned from Babylon. The culture of Jericho was the moon god Sin and that stands as fact.

Just as we have evidence that the Queen of Sheba was a queen of the nation of sun worshipers, we have evidence that the Hebrews clung to some practices of the moon god. Their entire understanding of time was designed from the moon just as was Abram and the Amorites who controlled the word for centuries. Their priests staved the ark and circumambulated before the Hebrews in battles. We can actually see that even today in the moon gods influence in both Judaism and Islam.

But this thread was designed to show that Islam was not totally free of this influence as Islam has modified Muhammad's true acceptance of polytheism and sold it as simply a preexisting monotheistic theology. How did the Islamic founders do this? By embracing selected Judaic, Christian, and Moon god theological literature into one package. And who did this? An illiterate murdering insane man named Muhammad? No, not really. He had lots of help by like minded people.




posted on Oct, 28 2017 @ 10:34 AM
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a reply to: Seede

originally posted by: Seede
So as to clarify what I wrote on this matter let me reiterate that question. I cannot find any of the ritual of circumambulating a shrine and rock of Islam in the Quran and wonder why it is not important enough to be in the Quran?

You don't seem to have looked very hard, in that case.

Translation of Surah Al-Hajj, verses 26 to 30
And when we assigned to Abraham the site of the Sacred House (Kaaba), saying "Associate not anything in worship with Me, and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it, and those who stand up, and those who prostate themselves.
And proclaim to mankind of the Pilgrimage. They will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, they will come from every mountain highway.
That they may witness the benefits to them, and celebrate the name of God through the days appointed, over cattle provided to them for sacrifice, eat of them and feed the poor and unfortunate.
Then let them complete the rites prescribed to them, perform their vows and circumabulate the Ancient House.


And because some people here seriously seem to think that "moon-god"
is at all meaningful in Islam:

Translation of Surah Fussilat, verse 37
Among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not prostrate to the sun and the moon, but prostrate to God, who created them, if it is Him you wish to serve.


Translation of Surah Yunus, verse 5
It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a reflected light, and measured out stages for it; that you might know the number of the years and the count (of time). Nor did God create this but in truth and righteousness. Thus, He explain His signs for those who understand.



posted on Oct, 28 2017 @ 08:40 PM
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a reply to: babloyi

originally posted by: Seede
You don't seem to have looked very hard, in that case.


Translation of Surah Al-Hajj, verses 26 to 30 And when we assigned to Abraham the site of the Sacred House (Kaaba), saying "Associate not anything in worship with Me, and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it, and those who stand up, and those who prostate themselves. And proclaim to mankind of the Pilgrimage. They will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, they will come from every mountain highway. That they may witness the benefits to them, and celebrate the name of God through the days appointed, over cattle provided to them for sacrifice, eat of them and feed the poor and unfortunate. Then let them complete the rites prescribed to them, perform their vows and circumabulate the Ancient House.

I have read that in the copy of the Quran that I have before me. That was not the questions that I had asked you. We all know that the above translation is by order of Islam and is in practice today as it was in Muhammad's day. Actually we don't need a book to tell something that we can see happening today. What I want to know is where did this ritual originate? Do you have any MSS or literature to show why you must do what you do? Where does Allah demand a ritual?

Jesus lived 600+ years before Muhammad and Islam declares Jesus a prophet of the same Allah as Muhammad. After the mortal Muhammad came upon the scene and established Islam we now suddenly see two men representing one Allah in the eyes of Muslims. One demands rituals that the other does not. So that is why I am asking you for the MSS or literature that demands circumambulating a Islamic shrine.

Actually Jacob [James] the Just did away with the animal sacrifice and Muhammad continued it over 600 years later. Same God? How could that be?



Translation of Surah Yunus, verse 5 It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a reflected light, and measured out stages for it; that you might know the number of the years and the count (of time). Nor did God create this but in truth and righteousness. Thus, He explain His signs for those who understand.


Torah explained all of this well over several thousand years before Muhammad was even thought of.



posted on Oct, 28 2017 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: Seede

originally posted by: Seede
I have read that in the copy of the Quran that I have before me. That was not the questions that I had asked you. We all know that the above translation is by order of Islam and is in practice today as it was in Muhammad's day. Actually we don't need a book to tell something that we can see happening today. What I want to know is where did this ritual originate? Do you have any MSS or literature to show why you must do what you do? Where does Allah demand a ritual?

Are you even reading the verse? It isn't about what is practised now or in Muhammad's day. It is answering exactly your question.


originally posted by: Seede
Jesus lived 600+ years before Muhammad and Islam declares Jesus a prophet of the same Allah as Muhammad. After the mortal Muhammad came upon the scene and established Islam we now suddenly see two men representing one Allah in the eyes of Muslims. One demands rituals that the other does not. So that is why I am asking you for the MSS or literature that demands circumambulating a Islamic shrine.

Two men do not represent God in the eyes of Muslims. Over a hundred men (and possibly women) did.


originally posted by: Seede
Actually Jacob [James] the Just did away with the animal sacrifice and Muhammad continued it over 600 years later. Same God? How could that be?

I'm sorry, are you asking me from the perspective of a religion that requires the blood sacrifice of an innocent human being as part of its central theme?


originally posted by: Seede
Torah explained all of this well over several thousand years before Muhammad was even thought of.

???
It's not a competition.



posted on Oct, 29 2017 @ 11:05 AM
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Wouldn't the Torah origin have some connection to Babylon's culture, where as Christanity pretty much sampled an assimilated Judaism into it own doctrine, just as Arabs back then did to Christanity? Babylon only importance, well from what I know, is that it was a major city like Mecca an Anceint Israel.

After all Giglamesh and Noah are two separate character with different cultural undertones, but it is implied that Noah an imitation of Gilgamesh.

Nvm any other cultural influence like the East.
edit on 29-10-2017 by Specimen because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-10-2017 by Specimen because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-10-2017 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: babloyi


Are you even reading the verse? It isn't about what is practised now or in Muhammad's day. It is answering exactly your question.

Yes I have read and reread the Verses 26-30 of Al-Hajj and I do understand that Islamic worshipers are mandated in circling the Kaaba and worshiping the rock in this ritual. I also understand that one tradition tells that this ritual was started by Abram and another tells that it was started by Adam. Some say that Abram rebuilt the Kaaba in Mekkah which Adam and Ishmael built while others insist that Muhammad built the Kaaba in Meccah after being showed the holy place to build it. But that is not and my question.

How did the ritual start? Did Allah ordain this ritual? Did Adam start this ritual? How did this originate? Why is this ritual a mandate to Muslims and who gave the Saudi family the right to mandate this ritual if they do have this authority? Give us a history of this simply for the records with the proper literature. Surly it can't be that difficult for one well versed in their faith.



posted on Oct, 30 2017 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: Seede

originally posted by: Seede
Yes I have read and reread the Verses 26-30 of Al-Hajj and I do understand that Islamic worshipers are mandated in ...

It really doesn't seem like you're reading the verses, because you keep talking about what Islamic worshipers are mandated. The verse has got nothing to do with what Islamic worshipers are mandated to do (at least not in the sense you likely take "Islamic worshipers"). It answers your question. Go ahead and reread it.

And I have no idea what you're talking about regarding the Saudis and how that is relevant to Islam.



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