ICE arrests parents at Childs hospital before surgery but that is not my concern

No one is bring up the Fact what about when the law its self is Illegal do you still follow the law ?
It is illegal to detain and imprison a person without do prosses and yet it is done every day .

It is illegal to do warrrentless each yet all that they need to do to circumvent this law is have a dog and say it smells something .

All kinds of laws that are being enforced are illegal Under the Constitution so which law do you follow ?
People are jail every day who have committed no crime what so ever and kept in jail without a trail without lawyer .

They ( judges lawyers stack the deck hold the cards do what ever when ever to who ever they want and you talk about how you will follow the law .

Well the law made it legal for the Germans to systematically kill 6 million people and most other Germans had your attitudes it was legal so they turn the LAW Brakers who just did not want to die in .

Most people and most cops I see would do no different .The day America Government says round them up and kill them you will happly comply ( unless your the one who is being rounded up .

Think it cant happen ? It already has more then once and will again any time they wish to . be sure to follow every law to the letter . Save time turn your self in now as you have broken 20 laws in the last week alone .

If you go to the children's hospital in Tucson, AZ you better speak Mexican, because it is full of Mexicans. The hospital in Sierra Vista, Arizona is full of Mexicans also. After my friend went in with heart issues, he went to pay the rest of the bill. He asked who was paying for the Mexicans...as the lady took his check, she commented, "you just did".

a reply to: daveinats

Arizona is full of Mexicans. Yeah, for hundreds of years.

a reply to: daveinats


Ah..................The spoils of war are sooooooo sweet!

a reply to: AboveBoard

No nation can pay for health insurance of everyone around them. Look at "universal healthcare" in Europe, they have been going broke, and with the influx of immigrants that rich Muslim nations would not accept, the bill will only keep going up.

In the U.S., it is the same thing. As for the child, of course he/she would get healthcare, but since the parents obviously do not have health insurance who do you think will pay for the insurance? You say you don't care, but when you, as a U.S. citizen see someone in your family who needs an operation but it's not getting it, "because it is too expensive", when in fact billions of dollars are used on illegal immigrants, eventually you will care about this.

The Cost of Permanent Patients

By Neal Asbury
Thursday, 09 May 2013 07:38 AM

The United States currently has an estimated 11 million immigrants who entered this country illegally. According to the National Research Council, the migration of these individuals into the United States costs American taxpayers $346 billion annually.
The Cost of Permanent Patients

The above is total costs because of illegal immigrants.

Also, if you actually think that any "illegal immigrant" who enters Mexico gets healthcare you are completely wrong. Nobody can take take of their citizens and pay the amount of money countries like the U.S. spend on illegal immigration, which is illegal.

edit on 24-9-2017 by ElectricUniverse because: correct comment.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

No nation can pay for health insurance of everyone around them. Look at "universal healthcare" in Europe, they have been going broke, and with the influx of immigrants that rich Muslim nations would not accept, the bill will only keep going up.

I never said anything about "paying for health insurance of everyone around them."

True story:

I
Was in Germany as a teen (I'm American) and I had an allergic reaction that was puffing up my body - very dangerous.

A doctor drove to the tour bus I was on, treated me there with an IV, gave me follow-up medication and when I asked how to pay for it he said "No, the State pays for it." He drove off and I, a foreigner, was treated for free.

Anyhoo, that's what I meant by humanitarian aid.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Sigh, wrong wrong and wrong. The healthcare is not why some of the country's in Europe are struggling, FFS stop spreading lies and propaganda. Just like here in Australia, are we going broke too...?

a reply to: AboveBoard

Well, this is a true story. I lived in Spain for almost 10 years legally. I had a problem in which I could not close my teeth together. Essentially you could fit two fingers in between my upper and lower teeth, and the state did not pay for the treatments i needed. My parents had to foot the bill. I wasn't the only one either. My parents and i were very poor in Spain, but there were Cubans living worse. We knew of a family of Cubans living under a bridge because they could not pay for rent. My parents and I had to share an apartment with another Cuban family to afford the rent for many years.

Here is an account from someone living in France about the healthcare there.

...
The bad stuff

The fixed prices of medical acts are set by Social Security and rarely revised. A GP needs to see many many patients to make a decent living on 23 euros a visit and they don’t care for you as well as a 250 euros doctor.

Since they are overwhelmed by patients, for a routine checkup you may have to wait several weeks, and several hours for them to squeeze you in between patients if you show up for an emergency. The same goes for the ER, hospitals are generally under staffed.

Doctors used to make house calls, they rarely do anymore.

Dental acts are priced even lower for basic treatments, a cavity is set at around 25 euros and a root canal around 80 euros. A 25 euros cavity will take longer than a 23 euros GP visit, and the dentist will have invested in more gear, seat, drills, radio equipment, etc. and studied four more years than a GP. Dentists loses money when performing those acts, but they have to in order to keep a clientele. Then they push you to get a crown and overcharge to make up for the rest. A crown, like other acts considered cosmetic, is priced freely, but SS will only refund70% of its set rate, currently 110 euros. This rate hasn’t been revised in years. Generally the dentist charges 900 euros or more. They will try to push it even when not necessary. Or do illegal stuff, like getting the implants and crowns from China and not respond when it breaks.
...

The awesome French healthcare system. Or is it?

a reply to: matafuchs

In Los Angeles County, they can indeed receive benefits such as EBT food stamps, GR and health care under Medi-Cal. The county is not allowed to ask for proof of citizenship. All that is required is a government issued ID. If they do not have one, you sign an affidavit confirming who you are and that's it.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Derail the thread?

You cannot have a full and frank discussion of the matter at hand, without covering the cause and effect which began the whole process. Now, you can either accept that:

a) The United States IS responsible for causing the effect of immigration, from nations it has actively spent resources to destroy or hold back over the decades since the MIC took its place at the table

b) Blaming others for the effects of your own nations apathetic and limp response to being taken over by a corporate oligarchy IS wrong, and must end

c) That until your nation ceases being a main driver of the immigration it receives, responding harshly to it is wrong

... or you can maintain the notion that no matter what underhanded nonsense your government and its corporate controllers do, the people will never have to experience one single bit of consequence, that they should not, because they are some how aloof and above all that tedious detail, that they are somehow too important in and of themselves, to have to deal with the consequences of their own apathy.

But if you do remain deliberately ignorant of the issues which ACTUALLY drive immigration, then your arguments will cease to have any validity at all. If you insist on separating each immigration case away from the main drivers of immigration, scapegoating the traveler, not the reason they upped and left their home in the first place, not only will that show that you are a callous being, but more than that, it will show that you do not WANT a solution.

Understand, there are no solutions to the immigration issue, which do not begin with reigning in the US government, which do not begin with correctly informing the people of the US of what its government has done, and why immigration is not the fault of immigrants, or the fault of nations from which most immigrants come, but the fault of Americas tendency to deliberately destabilise nations to its South, a tendency which is matched by the much more overt tendency it has developed for destabilising the Middle East and North Africa. Who started the cartels, and still uses their supply lines for covert operations? America. Whose nation is the prime mover in the military machine focused currently on the Middle East? America. Which nations agencies co-opted Osama Bin Laden back in the day? America. Which nation is part of the financial structure which powers the Islamic State? America.

While those things are the case, and they most certainly are, there is no argument against immigration or immigrants, which holds any decent or moral conviction behind it. Blaming others for the effects of your peoples inability to control their governance is NOT justifiable in any small regard. If you want to be able to complain at the presence of the undocumented masses in your country, you had better make damned sure that your nations government does not contribute to the push factors in their own country. And read carefully here, I said PUSH factors.

As with any examination of population movement, there are two categories, two factors one generally concentrates on.

Pull:

That is, factors which keep a person rooted to their land and country.

Push:

That is, factors which mean that for all they might love the place they are from, they cannot stay there safely, nor affect any change which would result in safety.

Right now, the major push factors forcing people to flee their homes in nations which are the origin of many immigrants, are rooted and cannot be disconnected from, the United States of America. While that is the case, criminalising people for being on your turf, even as theirs is destroyed by the machinations of your government, is frankly barbaric, inhuman, and utterly unjustifiable.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Was in Germany as a teen (I'm American) and I had an allergic reaction that was puffing up my body - very dangerous.

A doctor drove to the tour bus I was on, treated me there with an IV, gave me follow-up medication and when I asked how to pay for it he said "No, the State pays for it." He drove off and I, a foreigner, was treated for free.

That is how it is done in a western country that has a working healthcare system in place, for some reason to some Americans this is a very foreign concept, must be something to do with the constant push for war and division that is the norm in the U.S.

It is disheartening to see people scoff at others because they cannot receive adequate healthcare because they cannot afford it .....

The wealthiest country on the planet has its citizens fighting each other over health, and millions of people literally falling through the cracks because apparently its their own stupid fault for not knowing better, that's really screwed up.

Then just to add insult to injury there are people like the OP trying to ostracise the healthcare system in other countries whos healthcare is several levels better than what the U.S has in place. In fact so much better it makes the U.S system look like a third world banana republic.

You literally haven't heard of raw entitlement until you've heard a conservative speak about tax money and illegal immigration.

Any other day of the week, and they don't even pay taxes.

a reply to: matafuchs

People forget that these people are not supposed to be here, and how much you want to bet that baby got its surgery.


go back to where you came from and come here the legal way and there would be no issues

a reply to: penroc3

go back to where you came from and come here the legal way and there would be no issues

Although I am not religious, quotes like your one above drive home to me the importance of natural law.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Derail the thread?

You cannot have a full and frank discussion of the matter at hand, without covering the cause and effect which began the whole process. Now, you can either accept that:

a) The United States IS responsible for causing the effect of immigration, from nations it has actively spent resources to destroy or hold back over the decades since the MIC took its place at the table

b) Blaming others for the effects of your own nations apathetic and limp response to being taken over by a corporate oligarchy IS wrong, and must end

c) That until your nation ceases being a main driver of the immigration it receives, responding harshly to it is wrong

... or you can maintain the notion that no matter what underhanded nonsense your government and its corporate controllers do, the people will never have to experience one single bit of consequence, that they should not, because they are some how aloof and above all that tedious detail, that they are somehow too important in and of themselves, to have to deal with the consequences of their own apathy.

But if you do remain deliberately ignorant of the issues which ACTUALLY drive immigration, then your arguments will cease to have any validity at all. If you insist on separating each immigration case away from the main drivers of immigration, scapegoating the traveler, not the reason they upped and left their home in the first place, not only will that show that you are a callous being, but more than that, it will show that you do not WANT a solution.

Understand, there are no solutions to the immigration issue, which do not begin with reigning in the US government, which do not begin with correctly informing the people of the US of what its government has done, and why immigration is not the fault of immigrants, or the fault of nations from which most immigrants come, but the fault of Americas tendency to deliberately destabilise nations to its South, a tendency which is matched by the much more overt tendency it has developed for destabilising the Middle East and North Africa. Who started the cartels, and still uses their supply lines for covert operations? America. Whose nation is the prime mover in the military machine focused currently on the Middle East? America. Which nations agencies co-opted Osama Bin Laden back in the day? America. Which nation is part of the financial structure which powers the Islamic State? America.

While those things are the case, and they most certainly are, there is no argument against immigration or immigrants, which holds any decent or moral conviction behind it. Blaming others for the effects of your peoples inability to control their governance is NOT justifiable in any small regard. If you want to be able to complain at the presence of the undocumented masses in your country, you had better make damned sure that your nations government does not contribute to the push factors in their own country. And read carefully here, I said PUSH factors.

As with any examination of population movement, there are two categories, two factors one generally concentrates on.

Pull:

That is, factors which keep a person rooted to their land and country.

Push:

That is, factors which mean that for all they might love the place they are from, they cannot stay there safely, nor affect any change which would result in safety.

Right now, the major push factors forcing people to flee their homes in nations which are the origin of many immigrants, are rooted and cannot be disconnected from, the United States of America. While that is the case, criminalising people for being on your turf, even as theirs is destroyed by the machinations of your government, is frankly barbaric, inhuman, and utterly unjustifiable.

Why would these people want to go to the place that destroyed their country?

Sounds counter intuitive.

And why should we take people we are at "war" with?

Since when did that practice start?

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Well...

Why would these people want to go to the place that destroyed their country?

You ever actually looked at a map of the world? Lets look at the border situation for a moment, shall we?

The United States, sits sandwiched between Mexico and Canada. There is no manner in which one might reach Canada, without passing through America first, assuming they are limited to on foot or by motor vehicle transportation. Also, if one is on a budget, flying clear across the United States would probably be outside ones budgetary limitations, but landing in it after a short hop, might well be feasible.

Getting anywhere but the United States, from south of the border, may well be beyond the means of those who are fleeing the economic destruction, and the mortal threat which Americas intelligence agencies have been fostering in those nations for decades.

And as for taking people in from nations with whom one is at war ...

Britain took refugees from all over occupied Europe during the Second World War. America took refugees too.

Interestingly enough, during the Second World War, European refugees also headed to Syria... oddly, you never hear about that, but we do make a meal of it when Syrians, and others our wars displace, wind up in our back yards... how strange, eh?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: AboveBoard

No nation can pay for health insurance of everyone around them. Look at "universal healthcare" in Europe, they have been going broke, and with the influx of immigrants that rich Muslim nations would not accept, the bill will only keep going up.

In the U.S., it is the same thing. As for the child, of course he/she would get healthcare, but since the parents obviously do not have health insurance who do you think will pay for the insurance? You say you don't care, but when you, as a U.S. citizen see someone in your family who needs an operation but it's not getting it, "because it is too expensive", when in fact billions of dollars are used on illegal immigrants, eventually you will care about this.

The Cost of Permanent Patients

By Neal Asbury
Thursday, 09 May 2013 07:38 AM

The United States currently has an estimated 11 million immigrants who entered this country illegally. According to the National Research Council, the migration of these individuals into the United States costs American taxpayers $346 billion annually.
The Cost of Permanent Patients

The above is total costs because of illegal immigrants.

Also, if you actually think that any "illegal immigrant" who enters Mexico gets healthcare you are completely wrong. Nobody can take take of their citizens and pay the amount of money countries like the U.S. spend on illegal immigration, which is illegal.

First at off universal health care means everyone has access. Not the gov pays for it and is single payer.

It's easily to spot talking points from the script in posts like yours. Very few European nations have government payed healthare like a single payer system.

Most have better far better care than the US and if you remember prior to the Obamacare f up people went bankrupt who had worked their whole life when they got ill.

And you aren't paying billions for the Mexicans. That is just a biproduct of supporting their employer profit margins with welfare for the low wage labor.

Those who don't understand the situation are easily misled with talking points.

edit on 25-9-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

no one has the RIGHT to american health care and education, and no one has the right to break the laws of the nation you are illegally in and expect to not have consequences


im not against immigration in anyway, just do it the legal way and you will have no issues, period.

a reply to: penroc3

Well you may want to tell the employers of over 8 million....

And tell congress to make a temp visa program for labor voids.....

Bit that would lower profits of the donors.

a reply to: luthier

ends justify the means?


if you are ILLEGALLY doing anything, there are consequences.

If you chose to come into a country illegally and make a family while you are in a place illegally you condemn them to your illicit actions.

the only people i feel sorry for in the immigration situation is the children


the fact of the matter is, If you want to come to the US do it the right way and there will be no issues. why do people have such a issue with this?