ICE arrests parents at Childs hospital before surgery but that is not my concern

a reply to: retiredTxn

And if you think we *only* pay for the baby, you're nuts. That's the problem. Because we have that nifty SCOTUS ruling on what "natural born" means, we end up supporting far more than just little bucko's surgery. We're also supporting his parents in their home too because it wouldn't do to tear apart little bucko's family even though they're all illegally hear ripping us off and specifically had him to do just that!

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: retiredTxn

And if you think we *only* pay for the baby, you're nuts. That's the problem. Because we have that nifty SCOTUS ruling on what "natural born" means, we end up supporting far more than just little bucko's surgery. We're also supporting his parents in their home too because it wouldn't do to tear apart little bucko's family even though they're all illegally hear ripping us off and specifically had him to do just that!

Did I say we only pay for the baby? I specifically referred to this surgery and situation. I feel as strongly about illegal immigration as many others here. Please don't "assume" based on nothing more than a few sentences.
Relax, it's Friday night.

a reply to: matafuchs

The thing which invalidates all the arguments for this sort of enforcement, being enacted now, is that this is the wrong way to go about solving any problem.

You start with the beginning, work your way back to the individual from there. It takes decades.

Steps are as follows, in this and no other order:

1) You cancel any and all programs, overt or covert, operated by any part of your own government, which create drivers for immigration into your country, from other countries. For example, the fact is that the CIA are still connected to the drug trade, and were instrumental in creating the cartels as we know them today. Narco terror was actually invented by the CIA, who trained "rebels" to engage in it. The knock on effects of that are the United States fault, and no one elses. Therefore, if you want that solved, you have to give the CIA a bloody good kicking, arrest THOUSANDS of its operatives, make a big deal of ending these programs, do a full transparency announcement which details all the illegal shenanigans that your own agencies have been enacting, which have made the problem worse, and hide nothing more on that matter. Same thing goes for the narco terror situation, as the proxy army that the US and friends are keeping in the Middle East.

2) You take responsibility for the situation, creating amnesty for anyone who is already in country, because their presence is? Yes, you guessed it, the governments fault, not theirs.

3) You then go after the exploiters of this workforce, the people who make huge amounts of money, by underpaying their workforce, a trick they could not pull on anyone other than the undocumented, without getting butchered in court. You find these parasites, these leeches, and you take their businesses, their homes and their cars away, put them on the street, never to gain the slightest respect amongst their fellows ever again.

4) Only when ALL the above have been completed, do you start ejecting folks from the country, and by God, you sure as hell do not even THINK about arresting the parents of an infant child, scant minutes before their child is due to go to surgery. And you know why you do not do that? Because immigration in America, is Americas fault, so it can, and MUST afford, to be a little human in the way it deals with those it ejects.

Your argument that America cannot be the wallet of the world is flawed. America purchased the violence and insanity which makes Mexico and many of the nations south of it, dangerous beyond belief for an honest person to reside in. If you could not afford to house immigrants from that nation, you should have made sure decades ago, that your government was not sticking its prick in affairs it had no business in, should not have been permitting your agencies to insert agents provocateur, saboteurs, and destabilisers, into nations like Mexico, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua and so on. That boat has sailed, and now your country, right from the people in the street, up to the President who currently sits in the Oval Office, or more accurately, on his golf cart, need to take responsibility for the mistakes of the past, by making sure that none of the immigration you get FROM ANYWHERE, is a result of actions taken by your intelligence agencies, with or without the awareness or approval of the leadership.

If the slightest push factor that sent a person across the border, was something the US did (and that, by the way, accounts for practically every person who has EVER crossed the US/Mexico border illegally), then you have to soak that up, take it on the chin, and accept it as a consequence of your peoples total inability to control their government properly.

You have no business demanding that your nation can do whatever it wants, without any consequence. The consequences of decades of apathetic, pathetic and willful ignorance on the part of your nations people, about what its government does, how it gets it done, and who is responsible to sort it out, is that these things come to bite you on the arse... you do not get to complain about it when this happens, because the rest of the world has been telling you your fortune for many years, and your nation has never listened to a damned word... again, that it ITS fault, not the fault of any number of immigrants whose lives have been ruined by the idiotic behaviour of your nation, toward their nations.

I take it their employers don't offer healthcare insurance.

a reply to: TrueBrit

1) That is unrealistic as there will always be a draw to countries that offer economic prosperity or welfare support. You can't cancel efforts to be prosperous. I take it you did not really mean any and all efforts?
2) It's not the govt's fault that people break the law - amnesty is rewarding criminals.
3) Agree
4) The law should be enforced post haste.

a reply to: UKTruth

Wow... way to miss the point.

There are programs running in the States, which make a peaceful and prosperous existence in many of the nations south of it, absolutely impossible. The narco gangs they set up decades ago, with whom they still have mutually beneficial relations, are still causing the majority of the trouble which forces people to flee their homes and head North.

Blaming an immigrant from Mexico for their status, is no more sensible than blaming a Syrian or a Yemeni person for the fact that their city is in ruins, or the fact that their country has been overrun by a western backed proxy army. You know exactly the driving forces I was talking about UKTruth, but just to cover the even that you do not...

If you do not know by now, its because you have deliberately ignored actual history. Narco-terror was created by the United States, because it was an expedient method of keeping the "threat" of socialist political penetration of South America, contained within the bottom half of the Americas. It was also an underhanded move. The US government has been responsible for countless assassinations of leaders in South America, and its henchmen in the region, the drug cartels particularly, have more power in the region than do many national governments there.

Again, the US causing problems for other nations, and then insisting that it never bare any responsibility at all, that those who flee North are somehow criminals, despite the assassinations, mass murders, and smuggling that the US government has been responsible for over the last five decades or more, is not acceptable.

a reply to: ketsuko

So in other words you have no examples of trump cracking down on the actual cause and biggest factor of illegal immigration which is they can easily get jobs.

That's what I thought.

Funny that the states using everify were able to make huge improvements and had labor walk back across the border.

No mam. Trump is not enforcing the laws he is using a boogeyman man to pretend he is doing something. It makes good photos and press releases.

And I don't see any more deportations than the last guy. In fact because he stepped up enforcement without legal expansion he is slowing down deportations. Probably because he and his bud Jeff want build new tax payer holding facilities.

Anyway I will wait for you to find examples of trump scaring business owners so they don't hire illegals or cracking down on the people who hire dozens or hundreds of sub contractors.

originally posted by: SR1TX
Lmfao.

What a joke this nation is.

Let's not go after the banks, the monopolies, or the real underworld criminals of the world.

Lets deport "Illegal aliens" - Yeah! They are the problem!

You guys will be judged one day. Remember that.

So will you, remember that.

Also, remember the judges do not have slave complexes and ALWAYS side with those in power.

Trust me, the judges are nothing like you expect they will be.......

ADIOS.

originally posted by: Trueman
If I was illegal, last thing I would do is have a baby. Condoms are cheap.

a reply to: TrueBrit
The use of drugs and their introduction to many areas, seems to have been a very effective tool.

I remember writing a paper in college that addressed the fact that the general acceptance of drugs as a problem only found in the ghettos, would one day allow them to be a deadly problem for the middle class, and eventually a problem in the homes of the rich and famous. It seems I was close to right.

The American government has not just wiped out towns and villages in other countries, take a look at the cities and towns in America that was been wiped out and destroyed because of our government's dealing with big businesses and banks that they considered too big to fail.

Americans are being blindsided with all the stuff our government keeps throwing at us. They muddy the waters with claims and blames about leaders and peoples of other countries, trying to convince us that the blame belongs anywhere else than at our feet. It is long past the time that we kicked our rogue, corrupt government out of our country.

Our contentment in life is about to take a nose dive. Just because the wind and waters have not reached your home yet doesn't mean you are safe. There is no country that is going to come to our aide when we reach 3rd world refugee status living conditions. There will be the haves and the have nots. For everyone that thinks that they have a seat in the ark, I am here to tell you to not be surprised when you reach the door and find them locked, with a sign informing you that Elysium is full.

a reply to: luthier

Shh, they just get arrested on the street, never at work. That would make the company look bad.

a reply to: cenpuppie

Lol, true. I wonder how bad Tyson got fined when they were caught actually smuggling labor in?

You would think if a person who owns a home and has been here for two decades could be deported. We could deport some of these corporations. Since they are people and all.

I vote we treat is like drugs. The more illegals you have the greater the felony.

originally posted by: Butterfinger
Right, they are raiding like brownshirts, sure. Just like they said there would be!

"Pics and vids or it didnt happen."

When did that standard stop being used?

Brownshirts like Antifa you mean? Please with your logic. Reread what the brownshirts were and try again. As far as ICE, do their job and remove the illegals from the USA please. Enough with the sob stories, everyone has them.

a reply to: AboveBoard

Where is your compassion for the millions of American children with legal parents who do not get an operation because billions of dollars are being used on illegals and their children?

I'll give you an example. I was talking with an employee at a target store, and after a while of talking, she told me about one of her nieces, a teenager, who was in a car accident. Doctors had to put some titatium rods in several of her bones, including in the back. The problem is one of those rods seems to have been moving, probably didn't set right, and the rod was pushing against her skin, eventually if it is not removed it will puncture her skin. The lady told me that the insurance would not cover an operation to even try to take out that rod, and the teenage girl is in excruciating pain. Since she is a teenager, an adult teenager, children hospitals would not see her either.

There are millions of similar cases all over the U.S. Under Obama billions of dollars were spent on illegals, just because they are a vote for democrats.

As for "humanity" and "losing our soul"?...

America has already lost it's soul when a human fetus is seen as not being human, and not having a right to live. Millions of women are aborting because they have been led to believe those human fetus don't deserve to live, that they are just a group of cells, that they are like a virus, or any of the stupid excuses made up by the left...

Humanity has been long lost thanks to the left using the same chant that Hitler and the NAZIS used against "people they thought didn't deserve to live. "life unworthy of life... " "lebensunwertes leben"

a reply to: TrueBrit

Please try not to derail the thread... There are plenty of "left-wing regimes" that have business and help drug cartels all over the world, nor just in South America...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

What a strange philosophy. This baby and others should suffer because abortion is legal. So, per usual, Trumpettes and Christians hate the complete human that grows to adulthood. Another person to have to share the World with.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Well to be fair the billions used on illegals are actually for their employers profits. Once you all drill down and get it, you will see how you have been misled.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Where is your compassion for the millions of American children with legal parents who do not get an operation because billions of dollars are being used on illegals and their children?

Where is it? Right here in my heart and soul, EU.

First off, if you think you are going to "catch me out" as lacking compassion for ANYONE not getting treatment they need, then you are simply wrong. This is a straw man/false argument: "IF you have compassion for this undocumented person THEN you can't possibly have compassion for US citizenry." That is BS.

I would like to see ALL citizens get proper health care when they need it, including surgeries, chemotherapy, and all manner of "expensive" treatments as well as basic care, maternity care, etc. AND I would like humanitarian aid offered to those who need it, within our capacity and within reason.



Secondly, you state that giving care to this child and undocumented people in general, that THAT is the reason American citizen's and their children can't get an operation or their own health care needs met.

You have provided NO proof of this "causality" argument, only stated it as if if were fact. I can see you believe this, but you have not proven it in any way.

The baby, in this case, IS an American citizen by how citizenship is currently determined, regardless of the parents, so Medicaid took on the payment for this surgery.

How is that wrong?


Let's look at why the teenager didn't get care for a surgery that didn't go right and needs to be corrected.

Let me say again, that this is terrible!! This adult-teen SHOULD be able to get an affordable surgery to correct what went wrong, and the doctor/surgeon should be able to request that this happen and be able to correct the problem.

You've given me no information on what kind of insurance this family has, (through work, ACA, Medicaid, etc.), nor what state they are in, nor a sense of the costs involved in getting the corrective surgery.

Bottom line, however, is it is NOT the "fault" of illegal immigrants that this teenager cannot get whole care and is left in pain. This would be the fault of the Insurance company's rules as to what they will pay for and what they won't.
Put blame where it is actually due.

Thirdly, you have also not provided any real data on your rather broad claim:

There are millions of similar cases all over the U.S. Under Obama billions of dollars were spent on illegals, just because they are a vote for democrats.

I understand you believe this to be true, but is it?

1) Is the child in your story not getting health care (additional corrective surgery) because an illegal immigrant or child citizen of an illegal immigrant IS getting healthcare instead of them?

No. One is not causal to the other. Is money spent on undocumented people and healthcare? Yes. But that is not why x person can't get a surgery. Also, the baby in the OP story IS a US citizen.

2) is "Obamacare" REALLY handing out "billions" in healthcare to illegal immigrants, because they are
"a vote for Democrats?"

Illegals are voting in large enough numbers to impact elections? Is that what you are saying? It seems like that is what you are saying. I know there are people who think undocumented people register and vote en-masse, but this is NOT the law of the land and it is illegal for them to vote (as well as illegal for them to live here). It would also be illegal for anyone involved in the election process to aid and abet undocumented people in voting.

For millions of non-documented people to be voting in US elections, both Republicans and Democrats involved in elections would have to be "in on it." Is that possible? I don't think so...

In 2012, a group of college student journalists reviewed the previous 12 years’ worth of voting fraud cases. Out of 2,068 incidents, they found 56 that involved noncitizen voters, and they were told by their sources that confusion about status was a major factor. You could see that confusion in action in February, when a 37-year-old Texas woman, who had legal permanent residency status, was convicted of illegally voting in two elections. She was sentenced to eight years in prison. Her lawyer told reporters that she had a sixth-grade education and didn’t know she wasn’t supposed to vote.

Link - Fivethirtyeight "The tangled story behind Trump's false claim of Voter Fraud"

Meanwhile, ProPublica, an investigative journalism project, tweeted that "we had 1,100 people monitoring the vote on Election Day. We saw ... "no evidence that undocumented immigrants voted illegally."
...
Experts dismissed the substance of Trump’s claims about the election.

"This is patently false," Costas Panagopoulos, a Fordham University political scientist, told us in November. "There would need to be a massive national conspiracy and coordination effort to do this, and illegal aliens would need to be on the voter rolls in states across the country months earlier to be eligible to vote. It is also very convenient the estimated fraudulent vote is just enough to give Trump the popular vote. Not likely a coincidence."

Link

As to your anecdote, I have very little to go on, but here are some thoughts:

Again, the insurance company is the one doing the denying, based on their internal rules and what is legal for them to deny.

If this is a real story and/or you know someone going through a similar problem:

The parents have some options - they need to talk to a hospital social worker to start with, as it is possible the surgery could be done for a greatly reduced cost. The Insurance company may only be denying due to how the surgery "need" was coded on the request form - this happens ALL THE TIME and can be corrected by the doctor and resubmitted. I've personally dealt with this multiple times with my son's care. The parents could also speak to the state's Insurance Commissioner to see if they are being fairly treated by the insurance company. Without more information than that, I cannot give any more advice on how that family could advocate with the hospital and the insurance company without knowing actual details.


ANYONE who tells you that US kids and teens, or adults for that matter, can't get needed surgeries or chemo or whatever expensive thing it is because of "illegal immigrants sucking up healthcare dollars" is simply WRONG or has an anti-immigrant political agenda (i.e. they are lying). That's not how it works AT ALL.

And just to be clear, undocumented immigrants are not, as a rule, covered under the ACA/Obamacare law:
Link - PANTS ON FIRE "Illegal immigrants are covered under the health care law"

originally posted by: slapjacks

originally posted by: Trueman
If I was illegal, last thing I would do is have a baby. Condoms are cheap.

Think walking under a latter is bad luck? Try breaking condom.

18 years of bad luck?
LoL