Puerto Rico is 100% without power after Hurricane Maria — here's why that's a huge problem

originally posted by: Aazadan
Well, maybe I spoke too soon about praising Trump for doing something. He hinted today that he doesn't think Puerto Rico is worth the cost to rebuild.

Woa woa woa, you're blowing that way out of proportion. Trump merely remarked that with so much debt, he wasn't sure it was worthwhile to rebuild PR.

Good opinions on both sides, of course.

a reply to: Wayfarer

thehill.com...

Right here, he's saying that we need to have a serious discussion on if we should even rebuild it.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Wayfarer

thehill.com...

Right here, he's saying that we need to have a serious discussion on if we should even rebuild it.

Honestly, I don't think we should have rebuilt New Orleans after Katrina. Most of the city is below sea level, and even a decent rainstorm can cause flooding if the pumps aren't working right. The next time the levies fail, we should just leave it to be reclaimed by nature.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Wayfarer
Right here, he's saying that we need to have a serious discussion on if we should even rebuild it.

I think the PR people need to step back and take a look at what is happening on their island.

They should not allow themselves to get caught up in the chaos of the situation. It will not be a quick fix and the angst, frustration, and the amount of lost, places a heavy weight on the psyche. This can lead them to do something they may regret for the rest of their lives, and their children's lives.

Big business thrives on situations like this. The PR people need to start thinking of new solutions for new problems. The old way of thinking and the traps of the material world may be just what big businesses need to walk away with the keys to the island.

The PR people need to go slow right now, and they need to make sure they are looking to the future when they make their decisions, or they will be drowned in the tsunami that is prepared to hit them. I can assure you if the president decides PR is not worth rebuilding, there will be some entrepreneur, or entrepreneurs, that will not have any trouble rebuilding the island. The people of the island will then become just housekeepers and workers for the rich that will take ownership of their island.

I would rather live in a tent on property that I can claim as my own, then to live in a mansion owned by the elite, and I think at lot of the PR people feel the same way. The PR people have to realize that it will be a big mistake to give up on themselves if the US government gives up on them.

When the world hands you a bunch of lemons, it is time to make lemonade. The PR people can overcome this if they don't let themselves focus on what they have lost, and set their sights for a better future. They just have to go slow, be patient, and be content with the basics, until they can build their island home the way they want.

This is depressing. The official death toll in Puerto Rico is either 16 or 19 (depending on who you ask), but it seems there are many, many other victims who have not been counted yet.
Reports are that the morgues at the hospitals that are operational are all full, and the Forensic Institute has even brought in a trailer to hold more bodies. Out in the rural areas, officials are finding people who buried family members on their own. The final count is likely to be in the hundreds, maybe more.

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan
I am worried about the other islands, including Key West. I don't want to be an alarmist, but I have family and friends that can't get information about their families on the other islands as well.

I kind of understand, but the run around some of the people are getting when trying to get information about some of the places in Key West is a bit disturbing.

I got news from PR today, I was able to talk to my brother in the Island, thanks to a window opening for satellite communications.


The Island is in chaos, the only areas that the government have control is the metropolitan area the rest of the Island is out of control.

The aid is in the Port in San Juan but truckers and tankers are been control by a few and is a war for who controls what, due to the private entities greed.

The people are asking for martial law and wants the federal government to intervene, something the governor doesn’t want to do because that will mean that he is failing.

Nothing can be done without cash, only in San Juan banks are working, in the rest of the Island banks are not opening their doors at all.

Without cash you can not buy food.
PR have one of the biggest reserves of oil in the US and the private interest is controlling the gas that goes out to the Island, is not that is not gas is just that is not been distributed.
The Port of Yabucoa that is used for tankers to deliver gas is closed because tankers will not go in the area until is been inspected and is not debris under the water in the port.

They are finding bodies all over now, many due to the flooding rivers and others by nefarious ways.

Nobody is taking care of the death been found.

PR needs the federal government to intervene more that is expected because without a strong hand the Island is going to go into anarchy run by greedy bastards and crocks.

a reply to: marg6043

The problem is that it's not the Federal Government's place to do that.

They can't do it in the proper states either and that's a big part of why Katrina was such a bad response - the local officials wouldn't let the feds do their jobs properly and the Feds bungled their end when they did take a crack at it.

In order for their to be a prayer of this working, everyone has to be on the same page from the ground levels on up to the very top.

If any one step fights the others, there is trouble.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: marg6043

The problem is that it's not the Federal Government's place to do that.

They can't do it in the proper states either and that's a big part of why Katrina was such a bad response - the local officials wouldn't let the feds do their jobs properly and the Feds bungled their end when they did take a crack at it.

In order for their to be a prayer of this working, everyone has to be on the same page from the ground levels on up to the very top.

If any one step fights the others, there is trouble.

The role of government is to help the people, not squabble over who has what territory. We're all one nation. I'll stop short of saying this is racism (though many in just this thread don't think Puerto Ricans are American). But I will say that if this happened to Alabama, or Hawaii to make it an island to island comparison no one would put up with the mismanaged response. Heads would be rolling in the federal government by now.

I agree the is so much the federal government can do but the people that is in need wants somebody take hold of the situation and make everything fair for everybody.

Too many years of greedy crocks, gangs and private entities running the government like some third world countries.

brother said, he got paid today and his money is as good as dirt if he can not get it out of the bank.

He works with the government agency in charge of communications, he does hold a high position in that agency but he said that he is been so far at home since the Hurricane and to be reporting for work on Monday, he works in San Juan, he said he can not imagine how his office looks like and how his computers are doing.

Even with satellite communication the communications with the municipalities in many areas of the Island is not good.

Is been complains that they are seen gas tankers going to deliver gas in the exclusive areas of San Juan where the very rich lives and also supplies of trucks with aid.

But nothing to the badly damaged regular people areas.

The company in charge of the electricity is holding back clean up of power lines and starting to put news one until they get the money they are asking for it.

Sadly PR is not like the rest of the US, is a lot of bad ugly things that goes on and a big reason why the Island is in bankruptcy, federal money comes in but nobody knows where is going.

To compare the responses, lets look at Puerto Rico vs Haiti:

In Puerto Rico we've send 4400 people after 8 days. In the first 2 days of Haiti we sent over 8000 people. Within 2 weeks, Haiti had 33 ships and 22,000 soldiers in the area and helping out. Within 3 days there were over 300 helicopters delivering supplies. In Puerto Rico we still haven't even launched our hospital ship (or we hadn't earlier today when I last looked), or any destroyers/carriers to help the region. In Puerto Rico the ship count is still low (under 5, I don't know the exact number), and after 8 days we only have 40 helicopters in the region.

And, to top it all off, we had a several day warning in Puerto Rico, Haiti happened out of nowhere.

This could be excusable as incompetence, if not for the fact that our President basically ignored the situation for 7 full days until the press finally made him comment on it (at which point things began happening).

a reply to: Aazadan

I get that due to the rampant corruption, PR is one political nightmare of a territory for us wrangle.

But that is NO REASON to treat the citizens as the despised, redheaded bastard stepchild, and that's exactly how the slow-as-molasses-in-winter federal response looks. This makes Katrina relief look like it was expertly handled.

The Federal government did what it needed to be done in preparation for a Hurricane, the use and distribution of the federal funding and the activation of Island national guard and reserve responsibility falls under the power of the government of the Island as it needs fit.

Centers for refugees and the money allocated to it were also enacted before Irma and stay enacted and working when Maria hit.

So the blame is not on the federal government they did what they needed to do.

The fault falls on the local government and the private entities that now are struggling with each other fighting for power and control.

a reply to: Aazadan

So you endorse the government just being able to move federal troops into a sovereign state or territory in this case?

The system is set up the way it is for a reason, and when we have inept people in the chain, problem occur. If the governor isn't doing everything he could be to work with the feds, then that's on him as much as anyone else. The laws are the way they are for a reason.

a reply to: marg6043
There seems to be different stories coming from different places. The media is also sending out conflicting stories. In the mean time the people of PR are being used, being taken advantage of, and some are being ignored. Our government really needs to be more focused on providing a more effective solution to those in need in all the places where Americans are suffering.

The Mayor of San Juan says it best. There needs to be more of the get it done spirit.

originally posted by: ketsuko
So you endorse the government just being able to move federal troops into a sovereign state or territory in this case?

We moved them into Haiti with little issue. It's been harder with PR because of Posse Comitatus, but that shouldn't apply to using troops for construction or disaster relief. Though I think they're just using that reason as an excuse.

...and now Trump is blaming the mayor of San Juan for his own screwups. Coincidentally... the person who said the administration is doing very little to help.

originally posted by: Aazadan
To compare the responses, lets look at Puerto Rico vs Haiti:

In Puerto Rico we've send 4400 people after 8 days. In the first 2 days of Haiti we sent over 8000 people. Within 2 weeks, Haiti had 33 ships and 22,000 soldiers in the area and helping out. Within 3 days there were over 300 helicopters delivering supplies. In Puerto Rico we still haven't even launched our hospital ship (or we hadn't earlier today when I last looked), or any destroyers/carriers to help the region. In Puerto Rico the ship count is still low (under 5, I don't know the exact number), and after 8 days we only have 40 helicopters in the region.

lets properly compare shall we. what other disaster areas were ongoing at the time of Haiti? could the reduced number of people, equipment and increased time just possibly be due to trying to contend with THREE close in time storm disaster areas at the same time? after all there are only so many people and so much supplies and equipment actually ready and available. yet they are contending with three separate and far apart disasters all at the same time spreading that available help thin.

you also talk about a small number of ships. what shape were the ports in Haiti in at the time? and how many ships were able to offload at once? in comparison to the condition of the ports in PR and the number of ships able to be offloaded? some ships may be able to offload equipment without normal working port machinery, yet that takes much, much longer to do. there is also a limited number of ships that can unload at any given time. and that amount can be greatly reduced if the waterways of the port facility are filled with debris so that ships can not safely dock. ships are also extremely slow, and i mean seriously slow as in 20 mph- 23mph. it can take a heck of a long time for a ship to sail to different areas. i ship boxes on ships all the time. it can take 3 MONTHS for those boxes to arrive at their destination, compared to about 1 DAY of flying. it also takes a long time to load up ships, and you need the equipment and supplies to load in the first place. if you need to wait for equipment and supplies because much of the supplies held in readiness for disasters is already being used to help areas hit by disasters, it will take that much longer.

And, to top it all off, we had a several day warning in Puerto Rico, Haiti happened out of nowhere.

and again i have to ask, just how many other disasters were being handled at that same time as Haiti? sure everyone knew there was a good chance PR was going to be hit ahead of time. yet at the same time they were already dealing with two big storm disaster areas. and again i have to say that there are only so many people and so much relief supplies and only so much equipment available. and all that has to be divided in three ways, and much of it was already being used in 2 other areas BEFORE we knew that PR was going to be hit. so what were they supposed to do? should they have stopped helping those other people trying to recover from their disasters so that everything could be sent to Puerto Rico? that sounds rather selfish now doesn't it? "so sorry, we have to stop helping you because we have to go save another area which is apparently more important than you".

This could be excusable as incompetence, if not for the fact that our President basically ignored the situation for 7 full days until the press finally made him comment on it (at which point things began happening).

haven't seen any real incompetence from the Federal government, but it seems there is a lot of incompetence from the government in PR. especially that mayor who went into hysterics before the entire world (seriously someone needed to give her some valium or something), freaking out on TV. in all seriousness, the hurricane in Puerto Rico will make a great example of how bad leadership in a disaster area can make a bad situation far worse.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Do not follow the news they are stuck in Sand Juan been fed by "LA Comandante" The commandant, the Major of San Juan is one of the most hated political hags in the Island because she represent the rich, She thinks herself as the government of the Island and thinks she have more balls that any male counterpart for obvious reasons.

My brother said that the offices of the government all of them located in San Juan hates her, she is using politics to advance her bid for the governor seat.

She is the equivalent of Democrats in the Island and her political party is the party that most of the corruption and mishandle of federal funds has gone under for the last 40 years.

She is a political piece of crap.

a reply to: Aazadan

The Major of San Juan is a women that her life has been of around the wealthiest in the Island, she is private interest whore, that were able to pay her way into the position of Major of San Juan because she serve their purpose and next they will pay for her way into the governor seat, under her political party that she represents is from where most of the corruption that has taken over the Island comes from.