The Plague of Politically (in)Correctness

originally posted by: ketsuko
All those little tricks they so abhor from the so-called religious fundies, they've adopted wholesale, just with new labeling.

It hasn't changed. It's always been a majority consensus on what is deemed appropriate and what is not. The only difference is that there isn't a religion dictating us to stone people to death for violating it.

Having a prevailing social opinion on social etiquette is a big step up from having deadly mandates enforcing it.

a reply to: Abysha

In that simple context, sure.

If I came up to you and called you a nasty name, you have all the right to call me out and tell me to shut up.

But not everything is that simple.

And it extends far beyond just "disrespect".. but you sure like that word don't you?

a reply to: Abysha

Except it isn't necessarily a majority.

It's a loud minority cowing a bunch of people into keeping silent. ANTIFA is the next iteration and they're moving on to terrorizing people.

It's like saying the KKK were a majority. They never were, but they were numerous enough to terrorize people into not crossing them.

Most people simply don't want the kind of trouble that gets threatened. No one wants to lose their jobs or livelihood and that's the sort of thing the howling minority can do to you.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Abysha

In that simple context, sure.

If I came up to you and called you a nasty name, you have all the right to call me out and tell me to shut up.

But not everything is that simple.

And it extends far beyond just "disrespect".. but you sure like that word don't you?

If the difference extends beyond that, the issue isn't political correctness at that point.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha
Most people simply don't want the kind of trouble that gets threatened. No one wants to lose their jobs or livelihood and that's the sort of thing the howling minority can do to you.

So employers have to submit to you and not fire assholes? Isn't that just as bad?

a reply to: Abysha

Of course it does. Again, you're only seeing things in black and white.

Morals in general are highly subjective. Who gets to determine what is considered disrespectful? You or me?

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Abysha
"disrespect".. but you sure like that word don't you?

Name something that is considered a "violation" of PC that you think is respectful.

a reply to: Abysha

Being honest, blunt, or frank can come across as disrespectful to sensitive people.

Does it make it disrespectful? Of course not.

I would even argue in some circumstances that being any of those 3 would be the respectable thing to do.

For instance, you have a family member acting really crazy and the most respectable thing you could do is grab him and tell him shut up because he's being crazy.

Again, you see how subjective morals are? You could easily disagree with that, but it doesn't make me wrong.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Abysha

Being honest, blunt, or frank can come across as disrespectful to sensitive people.

Does it make it disrespectful? Of course not.

I would even argue in some circumstances that being any of those 3 would be the respectable thing to do.

For instance, you have a family member acting really crazy and the most respectable thing you could do is grab him and tell him shut up because he's being crazy.

Again, you see how subjective morals are? You could easily disagree with that, but it doesn't make me wrong.

None of that answers my question. None of that was an example of what I was asking for.

a reply to: Abysha

Of course it does, and I even expanded it further.

You being obtuse on purpose?

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Abysha

Of course it does, and I even expanded it further.

You being obtuse on purpose?

You used being "honest, blunt, and frank" as an example. I would say the same thing to describe being politically correct.

Give me a specific example of something that is widely considered a violation of "political correctness" that you find to be respectful.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: theantediluvian

Sorry Ante, but you alone do not represent society. Stop being disingenuous and pretending like there isn't a PC culture.

Also, being PC goes far beyond just language.

Like most things that people choose to be butthurt about, I think the consternation is extremely disproportionate to the actual incidence. Without a doubt, there are people who are annoyingly, absurdly "PC." There are definitely areas, online and IRL, where such people are in higher concentrations. I know for a fact that there are neighborhoods in West Philly where saying "that's gay" will result in at least one holier-than-thou asshole being triggered. And I would imagine many, if not most people immediately think of college campuses when they think of PC.

But is it such a problem in the everyday lives of enough people that it warrants the voluminous whining about it? I don't think so. I believe it's greatly exaggerated and to prove it, I'm challenging posters in this thread to give me examples of things they've wanted to say, that they have been afraid of saying out of a concern for "PC."

For something on the scale of a "plague," I'd think this would be very easy. Not saying that it doesn't exist. Not saying that there aren't illiberal, whiny, hypersensitive "crybullies" in the world — I just don't believe it's as big a deal in the lives of most people as its constantly made out to be.

Just like when I hear whiny conservatives imply that they're constantly being labeled a racist for *whatever* and yet when I ask, 99.99% of the time none of the circlejerk can honestly say that they've personally been called a racist.

And I agree, "PC" isn't strictly confined to language. I'll also add that "PC" is only the more cried about form of a similar phenomenon that exists on the right. It's similar to what happens among any group of zealots. In religion, you might refer to it as "orthodoxy." I'm sure you can think of some examples of "conservative correctness" that probably have a greater impact on the average conservative.

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha
Most people simply don't want the kind of trouble that gets threatened. No one wants to lose their jobs or livelihood and that's the sort of thing the howling minority can do to you.

So employers have to submit to you and not fire assholes? Isn't that just as bad?

Let's revisit the case of the man who shot his coworkers on the air. He tallied up every grievance he could think of that his coworkers had committed against him to justify what he did to them in the end. He had concluded that his workplace was a highly racist place.

One of the offenses of his coworkers was that someone brought watermelon to work and left it out where he could see it.

You know people for whom everything is clearly a slight against them or who find ways to express antipathy through roundabout means. I believe the term is popularly passive aggressive.

a reply to: Abysha

The point I was making was that disrespectful is subjective.

Look back to my example.

If you were acting really stupid, and I said to you stop being stupid. Someone might see that as disrespect and violating PC. But from my eyes I was trying to be respectful to you by cutting all the crap and saving you further embarrassment.

a reply to: theantediluvian

Actually, it's incorrect to say that only the right "cries" about it. There are more and more people on the left too who see it for the danger it actually is.

You might consider Bret Weinstein just for starters, but he's only the latest case.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I'll admit I just wanted to sound clever with the word plague, and maybe a bit melodramatic, but I was not trying to insinuate that this is a major problem in our everyday lives. To be honest, what inspired this thread was hearing all the reactions recently to Trump's nonfiltered language. It always seems to bring out the real faux-outrage.

Me? If I was outraged I would have put this in rant, or if I wanted a fight I'd put it in the Mud-Pit.

General chitchat because I wanted to have a civil debate and discuss something I think is important.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha
Most people simply don't want the kind of trouble that gets threatened. No one wants to lose their jobs or livelihood and that's the sort of thing the howling minority can do to you.

So employers have to submit to you and not fire assholes? Isn't that just as bad?

Let's revisit the case of the man who shot his coworkers on the air. He tallied up every grievance he could think of that his coworkers had committed against him to justify what he did to them in the end. He had concluded that his workplace was a highly racist place.

One of the offenses of his coworkers was that someone brought watermelon to work and left it out where he could see it.

You know people for whom everything is clearly a slight against them or who find ways to express antipathy through roundabout means. I believe the term is popularly passive aggressive.

Revisit why? It's not like he is free; he's dead.

Are you saying that racism would be acceptable if not for political correctness? Or are you saying that the liberal PC machine drove him to kill people?

Get a grip. Jesus.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Abysha

The point I was making was that disrespectful is subjective.

Look back to my example.

If you were acting really stupid, and I said to you stop being stupid. Someone might see that as disrespect and violating PC. But from my eyes I was trying to be respectful to you by cutting all the crap and saving you further embarrassment.

So you are saying it is all a matter of subjectivity? If that's the case, why is it wrong to have a set standard of minimum respect which is considered appropriate in society? I don't use my middle finger to greet people for that same reason. Is that me being subjective or me just not being a jerk?

All in all, bottom line of what I can conclude from what you are saying is that: it's okay to say what you want and it's wrong for somebody to call you out on it unless you are calling out that person for calling out a person for being a toddler jack-ass.

a reply to: Abysha

Really that's all you got from me? Lol..

So in other words, I'm just wasting my breath?

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Abysha

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Abysha
Most people simply don't want the kind of trouble that gets threatened. No one wants to lose their jobs or livelihood and that's the sort of thing the howling minority can do to you.

So employers have to submit to you and not fire assholes? Isn't that just as bad?

Let's revisit the case of the man who shot his coworkers on the air. He tallied up every grievance he could think of that his coworkers had committed against him to justify what he did to them in the end. He had concluded that his workplace was a highly racist place.

One of the offenses of his coworkers was that someone brought watermelon to work and left it out where he could see it.

You know people for whom everything is clearly a slight against them or who find ways to express antipathy through roundabout means. I believe the term is popularly passive aggressive.

Revisit why? It's not like he is free; he's dead.

Are you saying that racism would be acceptable if not for political correctness? Or are you saying that the liberal PC machine drove him to kill people?

Get a grip. Jesus.

I'm confused by this.

Are you saying his coworkers were racist, so his murderous rampage was *their* fault?

But I am saying that the litany of perceived slights was straight off a list of things compiled by PC. The watermelon thing was a classic example of microaggression. So you tell me where he found the fuel for his paranoia and belief that all his coworkers were engaging in an elaborate racist conspiracy.

And are you actually implying that the *only* thing saving the world from blatant and rampant racism is PC?

I don't think I'm the one who needs to get a grip, but I will refrain from the blasphemy.