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kumbaya, my ATS

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posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:09 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: interupt42

A good thread and questions. I don't believe it will happen, unless the gerrymandered electorate is fixed first.

The number one issue for Christians is anti abortion and or liberals.
The number one issue for rural white is immigration and anti liberal.
I don't see them changing. Both are very powerful electorate votes.


Good points.

That is because the DNC, GOP, and the MSM are getting individual democrats and republicans to focus only on the things they don't agree with in order to keep the system going as it has been going on.

If we minimized conflict of interest in congress where they are making decisions for the betterment of the country versus just money from the lobbyist we would be informed with valid information versus hidden clauses and decisions that are currently being made with some agenda.





The number one issue for Christians is anti abortion and or liberals.

Agreed that is a touch one to join force on but I don't expect individual rep or dems to agree on this , hence why I said temporarily put aside political ideology.

Regardless, shrinking the conflict of interest in congress will help dispel the BS and let people make a decision based on facts versus distorted facts that benefit some lobbyist or scheme to keep people fighting.




The number one issue for rural white is immigration and anti liberal.

That is why its crucial to minimize conflict of interest so people can get a clear view of the issue.

Today the DNC and the GOP are BOTH lying to their base. The reality is that illegal undocumented immigration is allowed and encouraged by both parties because some of the biggest benefactors are the largest lobbyist such as hospitality, construction, and agriculture industries.

Stopping illegal immigration is easy, just prosecute the companies that hire them with hefty fines such as 20K-50k per illegal found within the company. The incentive to hire cheap , undocumented and unprotected workers would not be worth the risk to hire.In return majority of illegals would not risk their lives coming here to not get a job or receive benefits. The problem is careful what you wish for.



edit on 10930America/ChicagoThu, 21 Sep 2017 13:10:06 -0500000000p3042 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:17 PM
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a reply to: interupt42



1. Congress term limits 2. campaign financing reform. 3. Lobbying reform 4. doing away with super-pacs 5. Revolving door between gov't and private sector 6. Transparency


I totally agree and would add that unless and until these issues are addressed and solved in favor of the citizenry, nothing is ever going to get fixed as far as seeking political solutions to the problems the US faces.

That being said, I simply can't imagine the "two sides" would come together to work toward resolving these issues. More likely these would have to be pursued by a coalition of Centrists, all with the full knowledge that the Alt-Left and the Alt-Right are going to fight AGAINST pursuing those goals stated above.

Why would the "Alt-Groups" fight against achieving these goals? Well, the Alt-Left is wedded to Identity politics and so-called SJW issues and anything that derails or detracts from their "issues" they will oppose. They see the Federal Government as a target for them to take over and use AGAINST the Centrists so they can use the power of the Federal Government to strip the Centrists of wealth and power to then redistribute it the members of their constellation of victim groups. The Alt-Right will oppose the Centrists in pursuit of their reforms because they only care about their pet issues and would make demands inconsistent with pursuing these goals.

The real problem is that the Alt-Left is interested only in destroying Capitalism and in pursuing Globalist Agendas of Open Borders and a Socialist economy. They aren't about to accommodate the Centrists. The Elites that actually run the Government (the Oligarchs) will oppose these goals because it would strip them of the ability to continue to manage the "Colony" the US has become.

This mess is simply too big to be solved.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: MOMof3



unless the gerrymandered electorate is fixed first.


I have to ask........have you really thought that through. If the gerrymandered districts are "fixed" (whatever that really means) its going to result in the disenfranchisement of millions of Americans, or at least I think it will, particularly in high immigration areas.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: underwerks
I'm not naive enough to believe the mob think of any political party. I recognize it's all BS, and I'm no more a supporter of the DNC than I am the RNC.

As I said above, I have no problem coming to the middle against both political parties. But for that to happen the Trump people have to let go of their support for Trump as well.

It can't just be one sided.


Well, right now, Trump supporters are under the belief that Trump is an outsider and just because he ran as a Republican, he's not really a willing tool for the two-party system.

Obama supporters were the same way. There was a lengthy period of time where his supporters honestly believed he was an outsider and an anti-war progressive who would make healthcare affordable and fight for the public option. They believed all these fabulous things about him and many never opened their eyes, at all. Surely, you can't only fault one side of voters for falling for dirty tricks?

It's up to you to help sell independence from the two-parties and bridge the gap. These candidates that run under one of the two parties are never going to do that...they're pied pipers leading people away from independence.

I am sure most of these two-party leaders can't stand any of us. And yet they put on their smiles, anyway, because they know how important it is to be appealing.

Make being independent appealing if you truly believe it's the best route to take, and seize on the common ground you can find like the treasure it is.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:28 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

I'm not so sure. I don't remember looking at Obama that way. In fact I remember looking at Obama as a Democrat the entire time he was President. After all, he was a Democratic Senator first. How was he an outsider? Just because he was a rookie politician? Because he upset Hillary's first attempt at glory? In fact, that is why I was so skeptical of him initially. I just thought he was the blue version of the red # stain we just got done dealing with. It took my 6 years for him to grow on me before I came around to liking him. I don't agree with 100% of his policies, but I now think he tried his hardest and wanted the best for as many Americans as possible. White, Black, Muslim, Christian, or whatever you want to identify as.

The only Democratic outsider I can think of was Bernie Sanders, because he was literally an Independent until he had to adopt the Democratic label to get more exposure.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

That's a strange comment.

He's talking about governmental structural reforms, not individual "policies". Maybe if those reforms were in place the policy changes he's discussing would be a lot easier to effectuate.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:34 PM
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Online psychic - might explain much about at least one politician's decisions. Wonder if it influenced the law making.


AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Travis County prosecutors say in a court filing that state Rep. Dawnna Dukes spent more than $51,000 on an online psychic, appeared for work at the Capitol impaired and hid a cellphone from investigators.

www.chron.com...



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:34 PM
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The danger of anti-partisan politics is that its proponents always tends towards the center for purely dogmatic reasons, even when the scales are unbalanced. Those who poo-poo partisanship will be caught in a perpetual cycle of poo-pooing partisanship, because that is all that their politics amounts to.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I recall it. Perhaps it was because I supported Hillary in 2008, I encountered more arguments that Obama was an outsider and Hillary was part of the Establishment.

But Obama wasn't an outsider, and I agree with you there. It was an empty 'narrative' that appealed to his base in the same way the narrative appeals to Trump's base.

I refuse to believe that anyone who runs as a Democrat or a Republican is actually an outsider. Bernie, included. He didn't have to adopt the Democratic label. He chose to.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: underwerks
I'm not naive enough to believe the mob think of any political party. I recognize it's all BS, and I'm no more a supporter of the DNC than I am the RNC.

As I said above, I have no problem coming to the middle against both political parties. But for that to happen the Trump people have to let go of their support for Trump as well.

It can't just be one sided.


Well, right now, Trump supporters are under the belief that Trump is an outsider and just because he ran as a Republican, he's not really a willing tool for the two-party system.

Exactly, and these false beliefs have to be addressed before any meeting in the middle can happen.

What I see is that most Trump supporters are so personally invested in the whole "Trump aura" that at this point they couldn't admit they were wrong about anything if they wanted to. Pride is a cruel mistress.

It isn't me that is opposed to putting politics aside and coming together for the greater good. I don't have a dog in the fight. It's the supporters of Trump who won't allow themselves to let go of the emotions they were swept up in during this past election.

A lot of people voted for Trump because they liked the fact that he didn't compromise, that was one of his selling points. Expecting those same people to now compromise with the "left" that they've been told to hate for the past year is wishful thinking.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

A public servant whose wages are drawn directly by the taxpayer should be made to wear a live-feed body camera 24/7. Their employer is the taxpayer and consequently all public servants should be held accountable for their actions, both good and bad - including, but certainly not limited to, regular and random drug & alcohol testing with the results immediately posted for public consumption.

But since CNN & the retards have FULL control over the thought-processes of weak-minded individuals who come onto ATS parroting how Trump is evil reincarnated (even though he wasn't even a blip on the political-radar a mere 18 months ago) and by association all those who voted for him are evil, it lends perfect credence to, and vindication of, Stefan Molyneux's 'GENE WARS' philosophy.

In a nutshell: Low-info liberal-minded rabbits exist to ensure the survivability and dominance of conservative-minded lions - it's been this way since recorded history and it ain't ending any time soon.

The proof of the accuracy of this philosophy is right here in this thread with the mindset that 'Thanks to ATS, conservative will always be a dirty word' because 'Trump and collective presumptuousness' - an r-selection low information thought process.

Stefan Molyneux's 'Gene Wars' - watch it, as it articulates why your 6 points will never come to fruition.

S&F.

up:



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
The danger of anti-partisan politics is that its proponents always tends towards the center for purely dogmatic reasons, even when the scales are unbalanced. Those who poo-poo partisanship will be caught in a perpetual cycle of poo-pooing partisanship, because that is all that their politics amounts to.


Having been a partisan and now an independent, perpetual poo-pooing is absolute heaven by comparison. There's a lot of apathy that comes with being independent because you know you will never be able to pull the partisan blinders off the majority of voters.

Being a partisan is miserable...especially when it's not your party that's on top.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:43 PM
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I don't know where I fall politically.

That's how little Igaf about their system.

You won't pigeon hole me into a bs label.

Technically though I guess I would fall somewhere.

Who knows where though.

Who?! I say.

I like the list in the OP well enough.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye



Having been a partisan and now an independent, perpetual poo-pooing is absolute heaven by comparison. There's a lot of apathy that comes with being independent because you know you will never be able to pull the partisan blinders off the majority of voters.

Being a partisan is miserable...especially when it's not your party that's on top.


It's not so bad if you don't let your emotions dictate your decision making.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I recall it. Perhaps it was because I supported Hillary in 2008, I encountered more arguments that Obama was an outsider and Hillary was part of the Establishment.

Sounds more like election wrangling. Clinton always pretended like she was owed the Presidency.


But Obama wasn't an outsider, and I agree with you there. It was an empty 'narrative' that appealed to his base in the same way the narrative appeals to Trump's base.

The only empty narrative I remember from the Obama campaign was "Hope and Change". Hell I called it as such in 2008. I couldn't understand why everyone was so hype about the man based on that one cheesy slogan.


I refuse to believe that anyone who runs as a Democrat or a Republican is actually an outsider. Bernie, included. He didn't have to adopt the Democratic label. He chose to.

Even Trump couldn't get elected on his name power and money alone. He needed to attach himself to the Republican party even with those advantages. It is probably impossible for a true independent to be elected to the Presidency in this country. Independents will remain spoilers until we adopt a three party or greater political system.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: interupt42

People don't come to a discussion site to find those who agree with them, they look for people who oppose them so a discussion can be had. I willingly admit that with politics and religion, the conversations will usually be heated and usually, some hateful thing are said. But even you, will look for posts that you wish to counter, rather than parrot. (IMHO)

But this was the case for the last 8 years, and the 8 before that. Some like the guy in charge, and some don't. With the case involving Trump, it seems the conversations mostly involve attacks on his intelligence, hair, skin tone (Yea, that one makes me smile, call him racist, then laugh at him being orange), very little is actually said about his politics, it's much more based on demeaning him first, so the lame point is more effective. Of course this comes from someone who ins't a Trump hater, or (Tr-hator) as I like to say.

But fair is fair, lots of folks picked on the last guy, just because he was a Muslim from another country. (kidding)
edit on 21-9-2017 by network dude because: bad spler



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

Even Trump couldn't get elected on his name power and money alone. He needed to attach himself to the Republican party even with those advantages. It is probably impossible for a true independent to be elected to the Presidency in this country. Independents will remain spoilers until we adopt a three party or greater political system.


Which is going to be very difficult to accomplish when we have partisans who are convinced their vote won't count if they don't vote for a D or R.

And the truth is, it would count towards something far more meaningful than anything a D or R will ever deliver, if only 5% of voters cast their vote for one of the other parties.

In fact, if a voter would just check the polls in their state the night before the election and see if the D or R candidate is going to win pretty comfortably in their state, then their vote is wasted by voting for the D or R. If they used their vote for the leading third party candidate, they have a better chance at making a real difference with their vote.

ETA: BTW, If you just do a google search for 'Obama is an outsider,' then you can still find plenty of evidence from that narrative on the web.
edit on 9/21/2017 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:56 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: MotherMayEye



Having been a partisan and now an independent, perpetual poo-pooing is absolute heaven by comparison. There's a lot of apathy that comes with being independent because you know you will never be able to pull the partisan blinders off the majority of voters.

Being a partisan is miserable...especially when it's not your party that's on top.


It's not so bad if you don't let your emotions dictate your decision making.


I've never seen a partisan do that.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

We just need better civics education in this country. Posting on ATS has taught me that Americans' knowledge of government and law is VASTLY inadequate.



posted on Sep, 21 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

If you think the war on drugs is more important or even possible to fix before accomplishing the 6 items in the OP then I fear you may have partaken a little too much to begin with. Who is going to care to fix anything for us when those in government benefit more from the lobbying interest cash and favors than than the people who are on the whole easily duped and lead on?




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