Making America Great Again

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Make America Great Again = Make Being White & Male Mean Something Again.

Sad to say if being white and male is all you've got - you ain't got much.

More like 'Make Judeo-Christian, Western-European Values prominent again'

Because let's face it, those values have shown to be the key to individual liberty and success.

Sure. Just ask Hitler.

I would, but he's dead. His secular socialist/fascistic tyrannical values led to his downfall. It was in the news.

He was a Christian and a crony capitalist. He killed Jews in Christ's name. He promised great prosperity and liberty and to Make Germany Great Again.

Perhaps that last part sounds familiar to you?

It sounds like a guy who knew how to use religion to achieve his worldly goals. That doesn't make him a religious person.

We can agree he was a cronyist, but true capitalism is not associated with government preferences.

So ... you pretend that you don't know anything about his actions and beliefs, but you can say he wasn't a Christian?

When and where has this "true capitalism" you speak of existed?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Teikiatsu

And how many of those has a scriptural basis?

And how many are rooted in the Republican platform?

Doesn't matter. Notice I added 'western european', which includes (pagan) Roman/Greek/Germanic/Celtic influences

Yes, but your list was responding to a question about 'Judeo Christian" values ... so, I guess that means you can just make stuff up as you go along then?

Yeah, actually, that sounds about right.

Let's be real about those "Judeo Christian" values shall we?

What is some of their actual bitter fruit?

Blue laws.

Sodomy laws.

Miscegenation laws.

Can't buy a product on Sunday, can't perform certain sexual acts, can't marry someone of another race ...


Whole lot of "can't" there to be a beacon of liberty, isn't there?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Make America Great Again = Make Being White & Male Mean Something Again.

Sad to say if being white and male is all you've got - you ain't got much.

More like 'Make Judeo-Christian, Western-European Values prominent again'

Because let's face it, those values have shown to be the key to individual liberty and success.

Sure. Just ask Hitler.

I would, but he's dead. His secular socialist/fascistic tyrannical values led to his downfall. It was in the news.

He was a Christian and a crony capitalist. He killed Jews in Christ's name. He promised great prosperity and liberty and to Make Germany Great Again.

Perhaps that last part sounds familiar to you?

It sounds like a guy who knew how to use religion to achieve his worldly goals. That doesn't make him a religious person.

We can agree he was a cronyist, but true capitalism is not associated with government preferences.

So ... you pretend that you don't know anything about his actions and beliefs, but you can say he wasn't a Christian?

When and where has this "true capitalism" you speak of existed?

I can say he was a charismatic S.O.B. who talked a good talk but did not practice what he preached.

I know you want to say Hitler was a Christian, but his activities say otherwise.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Teikiatsu

And how many of those has a scriptural basis?

And how many are rooted in the Republican platform?

Doesn't matter. Notice I added 'western european', which includes (pagan) Roman/Greek/Germanic/Celtic influences

Yes, but your list was responding to a question about 'Judeo Christian" values ... so, I guess that means you can just make stuff up as you go along then?

Yeah, actually, that sounds about right.

Well, *you* can say otherwise. That's pretty normal

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Teikiatsu

And how many of those has a scriptural basis?

And how many are rooted in the Republican platform?

Doesn't matter. Notice I added 'western european', which includes (pagan) Roman/Greek/Germanic/Celtic influences

Yes, but your list was responding to a question about 'Judeo Christian" values ... so, I guess that means you can just make stuff up as you go along then?

Yeah, actually, that sounds about right.

Well, *you* can say otherwise. That's pretty normal

The denial is strong in this one; people can click on the "Reply to" link.

/shrug

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Let's be real about those "Judeo Christian" values shall we?

What is some of their actual bitter fruit?

Blue laws.

Sodomy laws.

Miscegenation laws.

Can't buy a product on Sunday, can't perform certain sexual acts, can't marry someone of another race ...


Whole lot of "can't" there to be a beacon of liberty, isn't there?

Don't murder.

Don't rape.

Don't steal.

Lot's of don'ts, huh?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Teikiatsu

And how many of those has a scriptural basis?

And how many are rooted in the Republican platform?

Doesn't matter. Notice I added 'western european', which includes (pagan) Roman/Greek/Germanic/Celtic influences

Yes, but your list was responding to a question about 'Judeo Christian" values ... so, I guess that means you can just make stuff up as you go along then?

Yeah, actually, that sounds about right.

Well, *you* can say otherwise. That's pretty normal

The denial is strong in this one; people can click on the "Reply to" link.

/shrug

You just proved it

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Make America Great Again = Make Being White & Male Mean Something Again.

Sad to say if being white and male is all you've got - you ain't got much.

More like 'Make Judeo-Christian, Western-European Values prominent again'

Because let's face it, those values have shown to be the key to individual liberty and success.

Sure. Just ask Hitler.

I would, but he's dead. His secular socialist/fascistic tyrannical values led to his downfall. It was in the news.

He was a Christian and a crony capitalist. He killed Jews in Christ's name. He promised great prosperity and liberty and to Make Germany Great Again.

Perhaps that last part sounds familiar to you?

It sounds like a guy who knew how to use religion to achieve his worldly goals. That doesn't make him a religious person.

We can agree he was a cronyist, but true capitalism is not associated with government preferences.

So ... you pretend that you don't know anything about his actions and beliefs, but you can say he wasn't a Christian?

When and where has this "true capitalism" you speak of existed?

I can say he was a charismatic S.O.B. who talked a good talk but did not practice what he preached.

I know you want to say Hitler was a Christian, but his activities say otherwise.

I'm not the one who says Hitler was a Christian, he was.

And please, are you really going to exercise "presentism" and claim that unless someone meets your criteria for being Christian ... they aren't?

Many great Christians of history were totalitarian killers ... Constantine, Charlemagne, etc.

Hitler was merely one in a long line ...

a reply to: Gryphon66

Whole lot of "can't" there to be a beacon of liberty, isn't there?

My thoughts exactly. The Holy Roman Empire wasn't a bastion of freedom and liberty either! LOL

So typical. Christian believe they have the keys to human decency, but their book says otherwise!

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Teikiatsu

And how many of those has a scriptural basis?

And how many are rooted in the Republican platform?

Doesn't matter. Notice I added 'western european', which includes (pagan) Roman/Greek/Germanic/Celtic influences

Yes, but your list was responding to a question about 'Judeo Christian" values ... so, I guess that means you can just make stuff up as you go along then?

Yeah, actually, that sounds about right.

Well, *you* can say otherwise. That's pretty normal

The denial is strong in this one; people can click on the "Reply to" link.

/shrug

You just proved it

Interestingly, I"m not denying anything though. You responded to a question about "Judeo Christian" values with a list mostly comprised of modern fundamentalist/right-wing doublespeak, 80% of which has no basis in the Bible.

Now, if you're okay, as I said, with fabricating claims about your tradition that you claim to honor so deeply that's up to you.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Heck yeah there's a lot of don'ts!

All of which were stolen from Sumerians, Babylonians and Egyptians.

Don't sidestep though ... don't you want to explain how making it ILLEGAL to buy or sell on Sunday, or what you do in your private moments, or who you can marry ... are all really aspects of liberty?

Come on ... don't wimp out that easily.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Don't murder.

Don't rape.

Don't steal.

Lot's of don'ts, huh?

I'm not sure those are Christian values, they're common to every religion, and date back much further than Christianity or even Judiasm.

a reply to: windword

You can have all the liberty you want ... as long as you carefully follow the dictates of our brand of Christianity.

/sigh

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Heck yeah there's a lot of don'ts!

All of which were stolen from Sumerians, Babylonians and Egyptians.

Notice how many of those guys are still around...

Don't sidestep though ... don't you want to explain how making it ILLEGAL to buy or sell on Sunday, or what you do in your private moments, or who you can marry ... are all really aspects of liberty?

Come on ... don't wimp out that easily.

Wimp out of you putting words in my mouth? No, I just say you are wrong. Which is normal.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Don't murder.

Don't rape.

Don't steal.

Lot's of don'ts, huh?

I'm not sure those are Christian values, they're common to every religion, and date back much further than Christianity or even Judiasm.

I love how people overlook the 'Western European' I added in there, and reference to pagan cultures. It's like a blind spot.

It's like nothing exists after a person says Judeo-Christian to some people.

a reply to: Teikiatsu


What Pagan values would you like to see the Trump administration usher in to "make America great again"?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
I love how people overlook the 'Western European' I added in there, and reference to pagan cultures. It's like a blind spot.

It's like nothing exists after a person says Judeo-Christian to some people.

I actually didn't see that part, but Western European values weren't the first to come up with those laws either. Hinduism, Buddhism, and so on figured it out long before Europeans did.

Anyways, I think Christianity teaches a pretty good message, the problem is that we don't have true Christians in the US, we have a bunch of people who have warped Christs message. Jesus was a socialist, what people worship today is Supply Side Jesus. Even your own post reflected this bias, you said "Don't Murder". That's not what Jesus or the Old Testament taught. They taught "Don't kill". There is a huge difference between the two.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Ah, it's the same boring counterarguments in every interaction.

The Judeo Christian legacy in in the Colonies and the US has been just as I said ... the use of state powers to enforce religious doctrine. I gave great examples of that.

I didn't "put any words" into your mouth. And I'm not wrong about my claim as anybody reading this can see.

As far as your "Western European values" you haven't given us any, just claimed they exist. All you told us about was your personally fabricated list of JC "Values" ... /shrug

Western European ... would that be the Romans putting down slave revolts and massacring any one who resisted them?

And that Crucifixion thing ... that really must go both ways for you, eh?

Charlemagne's massacre of 4500 Saxons?

Perhaps drawing and quartering in Elizabethan England is what you had in mind?

The French massacre of the Huguenots?

The German ... well, that's too easy, eh?

What did you have in mind again for those glowing examples of liberty in the Western European tradition?