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Religious-right wants environmental destruction?

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posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 06:53 AM
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I received this by e-mail the other day, and it is so disturbing and rings so true to me that I have to post it and get feedback. I am religious, and I believe we are the sheperds of this world without end. What this article talks about is complete dereliction of that duty.

There Is No Tomorrow
By Bill Moyers
The Star Tribune
Sunday 30 January 2005


One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal. It has come in from the fringe, to sit in the seat of power in the Oval Office and in Congress. For the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington.

Theology asserts propositions that cannot be proven true; ideologues hold stoutly to a worldview despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality. When ideology and theology couple, their offspring are not always bad but they are always blind. And there is the danger: voters and politicians alike, oblivious to the facts.

Remember James Watt, President Ronald Reagan's first secretary of the interior? My favorite online environmental journal, the ever-engaging Grist, reminded us recently of how James Watt told the U.S. Congress that protecting natural resources was unimportant in light of the imminent return of Jesus Christ. In public testimony he said, "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back."

Beltway elites snickered. The press corps didn't know what he was talking about. But James Watt was serious. So were his compatriots out across the country. They are the people who believe the Bible is literally true - one-third of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup poll is accurate. In this past election several million good and decent citizens went to the polls believing in the rapture index...


Continued: Star Trib

[edit on 10-2-2005 by RANT]




posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 08:56 AM
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It is amazing how quick some members of ATS are to post articles that are somehow slamming Christians. Icarus Rising, you call yourself a journalist, but I don't see any journalism going on here. You simply and blindly repeat what you have recieved in an email. Way to go, you can read. Can't think for yourself, but you can read.

This goes to show that most members of ATS are as blind and stupid as the rest the world. Blaming Christians for the environment , next they will be blaming Christians for the Hurricanes in Florida, Earthquakes and Tsumanmies in Asia.

Well being one of those Christians, I have always been taught and I have always taught, and I will always teach, that the World was given to us to take care of. I believe in Environmental responsiblity; I believe in preserving Nature the best way we know how; I believe that we are to live in harmony with nature. In fact, I don't know of any Christian in any church that I have attended, visited, or talked to who wants to destroy the environment.

But according to Icarus, Right wing Religous people want to destroy the environment. If that was true, I want to see the evidence. Don't just spout off the first thing that come to your email. I want hard, concrete numbers that state that very position. Only then can we have a serious debate.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by knights5629
It is amazing how quick some members of ATS are to post articles that are somehow slamming Christians. Icarus Rising, you call yourself a journalist, but I don't see any journalism going on here. You simply and blindly repeat what you have recieved in an email. Way to go, you can read. Can't think for yourself, but you can read.


Unless Icarus Rising is Bill Moyers, I don't think he's calling himself a journalist. Though in his personalized opening prior to the article, he does say he's religious himself and shares the same conviction to steward the Earth as you. It's really okay to post news articles for discussion too, I think the confusion just comes in inappropriate posting.

FYI: Anything anyone gets via e-mail is most likely on the web already. An article definitely is. Please provide link, and post excerpt only (as I'll fix original post to reflect).

Back to comment on subject in non-mod role soon.

[edit on 10-2-2005 by RANT]



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 09:45 AM
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Wow christians are sensitive....

So many of them are willing to slam other religions as the work of the devil but the moment you you point out some of the weirder beliefs in the christian mythos and your "christ bashing" . Its almost as if they have this inner drive to believe they're being persecuted even if they control everything.

By the way I believe in the premise of this article, if you believe the world is going to end in the next ten years then what is the point of trying to save it and its kind of hard to argue that a fairly large portion of christians do not believe the world is ending. If you dont believe me just take a look at the Religion and NWO forums on this site.

I'm not saying that all christians believe this I'm just saying it doesnt hurt to keep an eye on followers of Doomsday cults and keep them as far awa from the seats of power as possible.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 09:55 AM
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Rapturephilles scare the life out of me.

No, people that think Jesus is coming to sweep believers off the planet anyday now don't make great political leaders (or long term decisions) in my very humble opinion.

They don't care about the environment, deficits, the rule of law.... basically anything.

Thus the title of the criticism: There is no tomorrow.

I think this can be discussed without "blaming Christians for the environment" since that's not even anywhere in the article. However, people that happen to be Christian, but more importantly have a driving belief the world is about to end and hold positions in government... sure. Let's talk about them.

And doing so doesn't make "ATS members as blind and stupid as the rest of the world." Though that's just want a hellbent rapturephille would say.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:12 AM
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Again, where is your documentation? All I see is your opinion, not concrete facts. Show me the proof.

By the way, I live like there is a tomorrow, because I don't know when it will end and so does all the rapturephilles that I know.

I still save up for retirement (thats long term I believe); I am trying to save up for college for my yet unborn children (thats long term I believe); I am trying to recycle my trash and garbage (long term); I am trying to stay healthy (long term). And I am not the only one, most of my "rapturephilles" are doing the same. So share your proof.

Boogyman, why can't Christian be sensitive about something? Or are you scared of us? Oh thats right, I must be a doomsayer calling for the destruction of the world. Are there some things that you are sensitive about, beside Christians?



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by knights5629
Again, where is your documentation? All I see is your opinion, not concrete facts. Show me the proof.


It's a theory knights. An alternate theory to the most common one (GREED) as to why Republicans back stuff in the article like:


I read that the administrator of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has declared the election a mandate for President Bush on the environment. This for an administration:

• That wants to rewrite the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act and the Endangered Species Act protecting rare plant and animal species and their habitats, as well as the National Environmental Policy Act, which requires the government to judge beforehand whether actions might damage natural resources.

• That wants to relax pollution limits for ozone; eliminate vehicle tailpipe inspections, and ease pollution standards for cars, sport-utility vehicles and diesel-powered big trucks and heavy equipment.

• That wants a new international audit law to allow corporations to keep certain information about environmental problems secret from the public.

• That wants to drop all its new-source review suits against polluting, coal-fired power plants and weaken consent decrees reached earlier with coal companies.

• That wants to open the Arctic [National] Wildlife Refuge to drilling and increase drilling in Padre Island National Seashore, the longest stretch of undeveloped barrier island in the world and the last great coastal wild land in America.



If you'd like to offer a third alternative, or go so far as to say the right is bestest buds of the environment ever...feel free.

But those that would like to hypothetically discuss and speculate on the psychology and motivations behind proponents of the apocolypse in our government, really don't need to submit a thing to you for approval to do so.

The "Truth" may not be a democracy as they are so fond of saying, but the rest of us still live in one...for now.

[edit on 10-2-2005 by RANT]



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 01:43 PM
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So when writing a thread as long as I call it a theory, I can say just about anything. And I don't need to supply any form of documentation to back up my statement.

As for the EPA, that I don't approve of the relaxation of the rules. I believe that if given a chance, people tend to destroy rather than preserve. It's not just greed, but laziness and lack of personal responsiblity.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by knights5629
So when writing a thread as long as I call it a theory, I can say just about anything. And I don't need to supply any form of documentation to back up my statement.


Dude, you can post about any news articles and comments you like short of a TAC violation. This one is so tame and non-confrontational though... seriously... why the fret?

It's a real news editorial in a real newspaper with an open ended opening statement by the poster (that even titled it with a question mark) to the effect of...


I received this by e-mail the other day, and it is so disturbing and rings so true to me that I have to post it and get feedback.


Rings true to him, but he'd like feedback. That's all he said.

I mean you've given some since (thank you), but the original brow beating for "proof" when all he did was ask for feedback isn't necessary. The astonishment to determine...


Originally posted by knights5629 ...most members of ATS are as blind and stupid as the rest the world...


....because someone posted an article from the Minneapolis Star Tribune?


Harsh.

It's okay.
We're all friends here. Disagree all you want, but it's a conspiracy site! Theories are allowed. Even the religious kind.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 02:25 PM
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Religious right are MASONS who descise them selves as Christian.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 02:36 PM
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ST, finally you are not the most insane person ina topic. Dang it, used up all my votes for WATS already... oh well.

Kinght, calm down, I know the republicans are all mighty and holy, this is a editorial news thing, not fact/science, this is like religon, it all opinion and questioning, if it said "The reason Bush&Co want to rape the planet of it's life is because they think the rapture is here." then you could have a excuse to attack IR, but it says "I think the reason Bush&Co is raping the planet of its life is not greed but that they think the rapture is coming." Calm down.

Anyways, sorry IR, they may be religous nutjob christians leading the 5th crusade in the middle east, but this case is greed, money, power. Though good post, I can't vote you cause used them already, but dang it, so many good posts by good people hard to decide which ones to vote for.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Bill Moyrers apology for the lie has already been posted.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 07:38 AM
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Easy there, cowboy (I mean Knight). I'm slamming politicians who use the Bible as an excuse to exploit the environment under the veil of conservative christianity. Your passion is notable, although misdirected. And the anger, man, there are some serious issues there. Don't apologize for or try to justify your faith, express it with love.

Rant, thanks for clarifying the issues for me, I completely agree with you. In the future, I'll search out the article and post a link to avoid this kind of personal attack. My wings almost melted, and I still need more altitude to see clearly.


Realist, can you supply a link or directions to the apology quote? I'd like to see it

peace out



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 09:20 PM
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[edit on 11-2-2005 by Quest4Truth]

[edit on 11-2-2005 by Quest4Truth]



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by knights5629
It is amazing how quick some members of ATS are to post articles that are somehow slamming Christians. Icarus Rising, you call yourself a journalist, but I don't see any journalism going on here. You simply and blindly repeat what you have recieved in an email. Way to go, you can read. Can't think for yourself, but you can read.

This goes to show that most members of ATS are as blind and stupid as the rest the world. Blaming Christians for the environment , next they will be blaming Christians for the Hurricanes in Florida, Earthquakes and Tsumanmies in Asia.

Well being one of those Christians, I have always been taught and I have always taught, and I will always teach, that the World was given to us to take care of. I believe in Environmental responsiblity; I believe in preserving Nature the best way we know how; I believe that we are to live in harmony with nature. In fact, I don't know of any Christian in any church that I have attended, visited, or talked to who wants to destroy the environment.

But according to Icarus, Right wing Religous people want to destroy the environment. If that was true, I want to see the evidence. Don't just spout off the first thing that come to your email. I want hard, concrete numbers that state that very position. Only then can we have a serious debate.


I don't know if destroying the environment is the Evangelicals first mission, or if it’s even on the agenda. However, it's very apparent they are set on destroying modern society, freedom, privacy, the bill of rights, the world view of the US, and civil liberties. Even if some aren't aware they are doing it, they are backing the party and the institutions that supports them. Ignorance is not an excuse and, as of now, they are guilty by association. Their idea of heaven on Earth is a fear driven society ruled by a religious dictator replaced by another religious dictator every 8 years. A country of people who think their way of life is the only way anyone on Earth should live. Consisting of gun toting, intolerant, excuse making, self-righteous robots controlled by advertising, church, and the media. Paradise Y'all!

Just like Jesus want it. Right?



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 10:36 PM
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What can I said the "Saviour" is coming so hey lets nuke the entire planet and kill every living thing the ones that will be save will be taken before destruction. Right?

Why are worry about then.


Wrong, we all destroying the earth and the Saviour is not going to save anybody from starvation when we run out of our natural resources.


Anybody that have that type of believe is irresponsible and is taking away from our next generations that will still be waiting for the Saviour 100 years for now and will be starving at the same time.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 10:45 PM
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How can one possibly think Christians can be blamed for the environment? It sounds like are making the connection between Christians and politics, specifically the President. Yes, it is very true that he has made some detrimental and extremely harmful decisions regarding the environment and yes, he also proclaims himself a "Christian".

But how can you make the leap and blame ALL Christians for the environment?

[edit on 11-2-2005 by jupiter869]



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 11:27 PM
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While I believe in a healthy living environment for all mankind, I would make the same decision to eliminate any long term environmental plans due to my belief of an "imminent return".



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 02:06 AM
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Hey, republicans aren't the only ones with guns, most democrats do to, we just don't think your car needs a missle launcher attached to it. Although, no crimes that I know of have been commited with a missle launcher in America. Actually, some want to ban the .50 caliber anti tank gun, but look it up, NONE has ever been used in a crime, at least in America, not speaking of the crimes against humanity Bush has carried out on Arabic civillians in Iraq.



posted on Feb, 12 2005 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
Hey, republicans aren't the only ones with guns, most democrats do to, we just don't think your car needs a missle launcher attached to it. Although, no crimes that I know of have been commited with a missle launcher in America. Actually, some want to ban the .50 caliber anti tank gun, but look it up, NONE has ever been used in a crime, at least in America, not speaking of the crimes against humanity Bush has carried out on Arabic civillians in Iraq.


50cal anti tank gun? Crimes against Arabic civilians? Yeh, if voting in a free election at the risk of death and tanks made of wood are where you come from.



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