Deus Ex, page 1

Originally posted by makavelli
If all you wanted to do was shoot down deus ex and criticize every line I wrote, then go right on ahead. What you've stated is an opinion, a rather vague one that not to many will agree on.

Shoot down Deus Ex? I love the game. As far as the rest of what I've said, I've basically advanced the same opinion of those I know in the military regarding this issue. And frankly I trust their opinions regarding FPS and their affect on people in combat than I do some random person off the internet.

By having you argue that computer games are in no way involved with influence on the mind along with educating anyone, your saying that any progress made through computer simulations is worthless and one must perform the actions rather then press a few keys to get it done.

Seeing as I have not argued that computer games have no involvement with influencing the mind I find that statement to be bull# lies. I am arguing that the statement etchellion made,

The other thing is that 3D shooters serve one big, hidden purpose: to mentally and morally nurture kids and young mens into becoming perfect military slaves... brainwashed even before they make it to boot camp. They are being programmed for years into shooting mutants, aliens and monsters (always archetype of "foreigners"... may they be communists, chinese or arabs) in a virtual reality that always looks more and more real to them (thanks to great CGI work) and into linear plots which leave no room for questionning and critical thinking, so what have you got at the end of the line? A bunch of little sociopaths that are'nt even able to question authority and the very reasons why they do waht they do. Stupid drones and potential killers.

Is total complete bull#.

I'm 50/50 with you on that, but only on the physical part because it's true, no game can ever offer a full expieriance of anything. However, a computer game serves better as not only a training tool, but a practice simulation to get ones mind to take into these concepts (such as firing a weapon and so on). Not all games give unlimitted ammo, in fact none do unless it's on very easy but on difficult levels, you'll have to play a game smart before accomplishing anything

Clicking the left mouse button on your mouse while watching pulsating red beams of light fire out of an imaginary weapon on your screen teaches you to fire a weapon? Gets you used to the concept? Ha. I know multiple people who love to play FPS who are scarred of even holding a gun, let alone shooting one.

and the same can go for combat situations (such as doing something more professional then you would've if you'd never expierianced it before).

You have not experienced it and you will not do it more professionally simply because you've played Doom II: Hell on Earth or Rogue Spear.

Simulations are all the same, and the only difference with your computer and helmet one is that is a phsyical excersise while a computer game is mainly mental.

Go out and play paintball. Then go back to your computer and play one of the games that try to simulate paintball. Or go out and play paintball and then go back to your computer and play X FPS. You'll find that they're nothing alike.

If you don't believe me, who would be more dangerous with a weapon. A person who play's games like counterstrike and other shooters all the time or Person B that has only read about combat but never before had seen or been involved (figuring that both have the same expieriance on everything else). I'm pretty sure person A will end up lasting longer then B only because person A is more natural in that they'll seek cover and fire a gun better then one that has no expieriance prior, regaurdless if they've ever used a gun or not.

And you are sure of that why? For no reason other than your own personal conceptions and rationalizations. Seeking cover, peeking over the top etc... is all natural reactions for *everyone* regardless if they've played Counter-Strike. Hell Counter-Strike is the perfect example for this. Someone who has played Counter-Strike and behaves as if that is combat will find himself quickly killed for doing extremely stupid things on the battlefield. Never mind that the concept of cover barely exists in Counter-Strike.

What I'm trying to say is that games in a way affect the mind, like any movie or book, but in a more directive way that one can learn easier from simulations rather then reading. Oh and just before you begin to cry fowl and say "BUT I TOLD YOU THATS NO SIMULATION", this is the definition:

To bad that FPS are extremely poor simulations that don't simulate combat because they do not take on the appearance, form or even sound. Nor do they create an accurate model. The only definition they fit is definition number 2, and that is a sorry definition to fit.

In no way does it say a simulation has to be a full physical and mental expieriance, so stop trying to shoot that down. First person shooters of games that simulate what it's like to shoot a weapon and kill people.

They simulate what its like to shoot a weapon as much as pointing a stick at someone and saying "bang bang" simulates it. Likewise they simulate killing someone as much rolling the dice in Warhammer and plucking a model of the table simulates killing someone. So yeah, they simulate it, extremely poorly.

IF it's not, then tell all those driving and flying schools to throw out those PCs that have flight and driving simulators since their worthless I guess, right? Granted, shooting an alien may never happen, but the simulation of aiming and firing is applied. Don't take the whole game as my concept to a simulation, but only what some of the actions are.

As I already noted up there Flying Simulators have been shown to be useful, a big reason is because they accurately simulate the inputs, outputs and general experience of control of flying. They don't do a good job of simulating the feeling of flying though. Likewise driving simulators can do the same thing and can accurately simulate the inputs, outs and general experience of driving. FPS games do not accurately simulate the inputs, outputs and general experience of armed combat. And that is why they are not useful.