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What's Preventing Governments/Banks from Conquering Cryptocurrencies?

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posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 04:59 PM
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Is there anything stopping them at all?

We've all heard conflicting reports about cryptocurrencies and the blockchain - some people are die-hard proponents who say this will "revolutionize" transactions and lead the world into a new era of opportunities... others like the famed economist Peter Schiff claim cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin are a big ponzi scheme/pump & dump scheme.

From what I understand, there are a number of crypto exchanges, and cryptocurrencies that have been fraudulent themselves, but the blockchain in its essence is decentralized and still offers opportunities for a new way of transferring assets/handling transactions.

I will be the first to admit that I'm no expert on cryptos or the blockchain. This is a serious question I have about governments and banks and their ability (or inability?) to infiltrate and exploit markets for their own benefit. I hope to start a meaningful conversation, hopefully learn something new, and explore this possibility in detail. Let's get to it.



It takes resources in order to mine cryptocurrencies. The blockchain and cryptos could apparently be a major threat to the banking cabal and corrupt governments of the world. But with their vested interest in combating something like a decentralized peer-to-peer monetary system, why wouldn't they invest in major mining operations themselves?



The FBI claims to have seized 144,000 coins a few years ago when they shut down the Silk Road
www.forbes.com... 3adc99d2765

That's only what was advertised... I"m sure that operation led to other seizures and more accumulation of coins and other connections to infiltrate what is now being termed "the cryptosphere".

With organizations/groups like US intelligence agencies ( C!A, FB!, N$A), central banks & Wall Street (who we know can be ruthless when they want to be), what's to stop the government or banks from infiltrating, and if they can, have they already?

What does ATS think? I'm extremely curious to hear your thoughts.




edit on 19-9-2017 by FamCore because: typo




posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: FamCore

I would postulate that they're already planning to tank BTC or use the shadows to their advantage to gather information on the players in the cryptocurrency world



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 05:14 PM
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There are no flies on the banks or government that aren't paying rent.
a reply to: FamCore



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: gimcrackery

Can you please explain to me what you mean by this cryptic comment about "flies", banks, and not paying rent? I am totally lost here.. thanks!



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 05:19 PM
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a reply to: FamCore

It must be useful if it hasn't been shut down yet. If I had to guess, crypto currencies probably help the government pay people they can't be seen paying.



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: underwerks



probably help the government pay people they can't be seen paying.


It's never seemed to stop them before! But I do agree, and I hadn't thought of that angle yet. Awesome contribution to the thread, thanks for bringing up this idea. I bet you're totally right about that too (only for circumstances in which they aren't brazen enough to provide financial incentives through other, non-blockchain/crypto means)



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 05:25 PM
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This is because you would be trying to nail Jello to a wall.



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: underwerks



probably help the government pay people they can't be seen paying.


It's never seemed to stop them before!


Very true. It's probably easier and safer to make a few keystrokes on a computer than to drop off a duffel bag in person, though.



I'm sure our spy agencies love it.



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 05:38 PM
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It all comes down to knowledge, there aren't that many blockchain experts around.

Either banks respond positive, neutral or negative: they embrace it and secretly have bitcoin mining operations or they will do nothing and go on with life without cryptocurrency. Negatively and they'll say it's a scam. Bitcoin is indeed nothing more than a pilot probably with an end, a game with winners and losers.

Anyone with funds to invest and knowhow could move to a country with low cost electricity and profit but how long will it last. Those who know how will probably not choose to work for any government or taxes but do something by themselves because of more profits.
edit on 19-9-2017 by spliffster because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 06:57 PM
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problem is security......someone take your coins and bahamm....you cant write your phone number on em.



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 09:04 PM
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bitcoin... the most famous & popular crypto is being challenged by ? Etherium?... there are more than 100+ crypto coins out there being created

I read a few weeks ago that even BitCoin has a limit to the mining/creation of coins...I cant recall the limit but it seems like there is a maximum built into the block-chain formula/sequence/algorithm (see: al·go·rithm
[ˈalɡəˌriT͟Həm]=NOUN->
a process or set of rules to be followed in calculations or other problem-solving operations, especially by a computer...)
and the max limit of bitcoins are not in the multiple Billion$, as one might expect for a world-wide crypto currency designation...

So bitcoin is Basically Just a casino chip


the Chinese are busy fashioning a crypto coin which will have a 'gold' component in Its' Block-Chain (somewhat like a DNA-gene expression equivalent in creating the coin-as-entity lineage)


the 'block-chain' is comparable to the DNA code of every living creatures Genome, with codes/sequences that turn ON or OFF certain gene expressions in the entity.... the near future crypto currency will have more than Fiat money trust+confidence as a paradigm... but be living entities and each persons temporary ownership or partnership with these Crypto Coins will be incorporated into the biography/history of the coin itself....
==== this is What the Beast 666-Mark-Name-Number is ALL About ====

sleep well

 


ADD: more late info on bitcoin creation/mining...www.sprottmoney.com...
title: 'bitcoin-is-precise-but-not-accurate-keith-weiner'
edit on th30150587364419142017 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: St Udio

I believe the limit of bitcoin is 21 million, but is that proven? I'd like to see the legit proof that this can't be manipulated and that no one can create a "counterfeit" bitcoin. Then I'll believe it



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 10:42 PM
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a reply to: FamCore

Interesting questions OP. In short answer, a single government or bank would need control over 51% of the current mining hash power to perform an attack which would compromise bitcoin or other pow cryptocurrencies. This would take a hell of a lot of computing power for bitcoin. And loads and loads of hardware + electricity.

Doable? Sure. But good luck. If anybody could pull this off it would be China. That is where the majority of the mining hash power comes from. But it would take a lot, the picture in your OP of a mining farm is a piss poor example of what is actually out there mining bitcoin. Think more like an Amazon data/server warehouse in terms of scope.

Also, the in this case chinese government would need control of the vast majority of these farms. Good luck getting that control from private citizens short of torturing/killing them.

Even if this did occur, it would need to be sustained. Otherwise something called a "hard fork" would be implemented by the organic bitcoin mining community which would essentially roll the blockchain back and make any transactions performed during the attack invalid, obsolete.

As answer to the second bit, my guess is the USgovernment does hold some bitcoin perhaps, for study if nothing else. Also, as for use in the various honeypots located within the dozens of "SilkRoad 2.0"s. But the FBI sold the coins they seized from Silk Road actually. At public auction believe it or not.

And the buyer has since made quite the pretty penny in gains. Way way way over +100%.



posted on Sep, 19 2017 @ 10:51 PM
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a reply to: St Udio

You are correct. The limit for bitcoin cap is 21 million, but it wont even reach that point for years to come. It is hard coded into the blockchain, and no bitcoin cannot be 'forged' counterfeit. A good sample of proof and interesting tidbit is the creator of bitcoin holds well over 2 million coins himself. Which have remained in wallets since creation and not moved or been sold to this day.

This is also a pretty good point against the ponzi scheme argument. The above fact would equate to the creator being worth over 8 billion dollars at current rates and yet they have not sold. Crappy ponzi if you ask me.

Also as to the limit and worldwide adoption?

That is why a bitcoin breaks down into 'satoshis.'
There are 100 million satoshis in one bitcoin. One satoshi is 4 thousandths a cent at current rates. So 1000 satoshi is like 4 cents, etc. It is scalable that way and the limit is fundamental.

With current fiat systems, 99% of all money out there exists only digitally ie only as 1s and 0s on a screen, similar to crypto, however with current fiat there is no limit to that 99% of digital only currency. It is inherently inflationary. Crypto is the oppositte.
edit on 19-9-2017 by lightedhype because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 20 2017 @ 04:00 AM
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I'm sure there is already a new currency in place,no matter how you try will not bring our dollar value up,things probably have been in place for years,I'd be storing food supplies,rather then gold and silver,can't eat that,you can but why?



posted on Sep, 20 2017 @ 04:38 AM
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Posting to keep an eye on replies. Although I am currently learning and not knowledgeable on crypto. I would be concerned about goverments requesting more accountablity and taxability of currencies. Then implementation of their own creating a precedent to outlaw other currencies. Or mainstream acceptance then overthrowing the value of the original cryptocurrency's?

I would also be concerned about EMP weapons or Solarflares downing networks?



posted on Sep, 20 2017 @ 11:55 AM
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Imagine this if you will...

Let's say I create a new crypto currency. From my experience, most crypto that makes it on an exchange, the price will instantly skyrocket then tumble down to minimal over the first few hours to the first couple of days. Now, if I made this crypto (or many variations to better my chance of it hitting an exchange) as many have done, then I can set aside X amount of coins for myself and claim it's for a specific purpose. I don't even have to tell people that I have them so in essence I could have millions of that crypto just sitting in a wallet on my own PC. Now, I can do this with MANY crypto while hoping one or more make it to an exchange. Once it hits an exchange, it becomes seen by many many people and it's no longer unheard of. It's kind of like free advertising but on a much bigger scale.

Now lets say one of my currencies take off. Maybe even 25 cents per coin... just as an example. Multiply that by the millions I stuffed in my little wallet and lets see how much money I just suckerd out of people. It can be schism this easily. Lets say one day that coin takes off in the way BitCoin and Eth did. Imagine how much money I would have then..


Back when BitCoin started, you could get millions of those coins for a few cents. People were giving them away left and right. Imagine if you had a couple thousand, hundred thousand, millions sitting on an old hard drive...

Man.... You could instantly be the richest person in the whole world and no one would know. Besides... How are you going to offload that many coins? The market is big, yes, but if you sell them in that amount, the price will plummet so at some point your coins are kinda worthless if you push them all in at once. Somewhere in there, you wont be able to sell them because no one will want them. So you have to feed them in a little at a time.

Then there is the tax issue. You start putting over 10K in your bank at one time, any time, or hell... even a few K from a non taxed source, the bank is going to know it and the feds are coming after you. If you do pay taxes on what you've made.. Then you might be ok with the Fed but once the government sees you making that much money on fake imaginary money for just one person, you can bet someone is going to clamp down on it. Because at that point, you've pissed off the richest people in the world who supposedly "had to work for it".

The biggest problem with crypto.. it could be worth zero today, billions tomorrow, and zero tomorrow afternoon. It's worth is only valued by how many people play with it, what countries allow it and how many people are holding on to it without letting it go.

Your biggest problem... Exchanges! They WILL rob you blind. As soon as you have enough worth in an exchange, they will take whats yours and run away to china and claim they were hacked.

Last year I lost over 12 million mooncoins, 800,000 dodge coins and half a BitCoin (and billions of Chinese crypto I no longer remember the name of) to Cryptsy. Like many other exchanges... He took what was others and skipped town to China and left his wife behind with a million dollar house that was sold to pay a tiny fraction of what he stole from others.

There is not one exchange out there that is set up like a banking establishment. It's hard to hold any of them liable because you're playing with imaginary money that has a real money value for some reason. These are some joe blow on the internet who is holding your money for you so you can trade vs other crypto or real money (credits for real money).

Sadly, you cant trade without one and you can't trade for real dollars without one. So without exchanges, your coins are useless. It takes an exchange to trade them and if that "company" is corrupt, then you're pretty much screwed should they decide at any point to take all that pretty untraceable crypto and move off to another country. Sure you can keep it in your wallet on your PC. Many PCs are infected with viruses that wont even show it's ugly head (some undetectable) that will loot your wallet while you sleep. Even if your system was secure and you had your coins safe... You have to put them on an exchange to get money for them at some point.


Crypto is a messy thing without some kind of regulation. Funny Irony here. It's popular because it's NOT regulated. It's the perfect money laundering schism.



posted on Sep, 20 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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Frankly it is shocking how little people understand about what "money" is and yet they will speak their ignorance with a kind of confidence that defies explanation.

Bitcoin is a thing, an item, like a diaper. I can trade a diaper for a chicken, or I can keep it. A diaper is a thing, like gold. Bitcoin, while mathematical in nature is a THING. You can accept them as a means of transaction if you like or not, you can accept a diaper as a means of transaction or not. Those are things.

A Federal Reserve Note is a PROMISSORY NOTE! Look up, right now, what Promissory Note means if you want to understand what bitcoin is not, then look at your dollar for the word NOTE. The Dollar is a PROMISE TO PAY, an IOU, it is not, I repeat NOT A THING and it is not money! The dollar is a PROMISE, and the bitcoin is a thing. If you can't get that into your head your "thoughts" are worthless and your thoughts about "banks" is beyond ignorant.

The reason banks control the actions of the dollar, taxes mostly, is because they are the controllers of the issuance of the DEBT NOTES based on YOUR, YOU, PEOPLE READING THIS, commitment to cover the debt with real energy in the form of labor. You agreed to fund the debt notes with you labor.

Money. Folks think the dollar is money, IT IS NOT! There is no money, the government took the money, gold, away in 1933 and replaced it with promises to pay notes. So, believe it or not, writing "I promise to pay you xxx" on a napkin (with signature) is EXACTLY the same as the the dollar, identical. Bitcoin is not a promise to pay, it is a thing, which may or may not have the value of a diaper.

If you do not understand these concepts you will not have an informed discussion on the topic. The banks have NO RIGHT to regulate, tax or otherwise control bitcoin unless folks demand it based on their ignorance, and they have begun the action by simply tying the bitcoin value to the PROMISE TO PAY dollar.

Now, work out this equation. A bitcoin is "worth" 4500 promises to pay, 4500 napkins with the words "I will pay you...".



posted on Sep, 20 2017 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: crankyoldman

It's incredibly easy to create a crypto currency and many have. Anyone with semi decent programming skills can make one. Crypto currencies are destined to crash as more and more are created.

With both demand and supply soaring, it’s probable that cryptocurrencies will go through a 1990s tech stock-style boom/crash cycle in which their usage rises but their average price falls.

People will get burned badly and these currencies will be banned all ready happening in China.



posted on Sep, 20 2017 @ 02:02 PM
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a reply to: crankyoldman

Bitcoin is a thing as your imagination is a thing. It's a non physical thing. Even though a dollar is a note, it's still a physical thing. You can touch it.

Bitcoin CANT promise you to pay anything because it requires an exchange to do so. Without an exchange (Bank), you can not do so. Bitcoin is worthless without a means to exchange a dollar for a code. A physical thing exchanged for numbers that have no substance, no real worth (only imaginary).

I'm sorry but saying "Frankly it is shocking how little people understand about what "money" is and yet they will speak their ignorance with a kind of confidence that defies explanation".... The irony is, You just went there.



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