It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

A Frightening Message from Inside Islam

page: 4
0
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 02:18 PM
link   

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Yawn.......the study of islam is full of repression against so many things, and people, and genders, and well there just isn't enough time.


If there isn't time for a serious discussion of the subject then why start the thread doc? You've reitterated that Islamic extremists are oppressive to women and religious minorities in their nations, and if you have a problem with them doing that, I can't understand why you wouldn't want to address the question of how to deal with it. We're not going to exterminate Islam afterall, surely you realize that nobody is going to take the war on terror that far.
So, what are we going to do to make Islamic extremism as rare as Christian extremism. Afterall, there are dangerous Chrisitan extremists, but somehow that group has been kept small and is not nearly as great a threat to world peace as Islamic extremists are. How do developed nations deal with these people within their borders? How do developed nations deal with other nations populated by these people? We don't need hyped up fear of Islam, we need answers to the problems posed by radical Islam.



Islam is repressive....period.

Islam produced two fine Marines of great personal integrity who I know. Political interests which manipulate the most radical elements of Islam are the problem. The guy Saudi immigrant who works at the liquor store down the street from my old house never cut anybody's hands off for shoplifting. Private Berkins never showed any disrespect for WMs. I believe that as with any religion there are varried levels of fundamentalism and tollerance. What we need to do is encourage the sects which conduct themselves in an acceptable and civilized way while finding ways to bring about change in the sects which do not.
Also, when Muslims come to first world nations, we need to be able to assimilate them and help them incorporate their beliefs into their new identity as citizens of the nation they enter. We can't have a bunch of American muslims running around killing their girlfriends for talking to other men. We also can't just go around exterminating muslims and forcing conversions though.

I do not for one second believe that my reasoning in this is beyond you, although I am concerned that you might disagree with me about it being wrong to exterminate them. So what say you? How do we deal with people?



You are talking about Global control of the masses. Very NWO.

There's a fine line where order and new world order diverge. Maintaining order by having legal and moral standards which do not compromise is not NWO in my opinion, and neither is working in shrewd ways to implement those standards without resorting to full-scale war. If we were talking about eliminating a relgion all together because that religion did not jive with the system of one world government I wanted to impose, then that would be very NWO.
On the other hand, the Old World Order would conduct a crusade and attempt a genocide against Muslims if there was any issue with them, so perhaps in a certain sense the desire to work around this problem without open war is NWO to some extent.


(ps jarhead light) wasn't intended to be an attack, just poor humor on my part.

I appreciate that you have cleared that up. I was under the impression that the discussion might be degenerating into attempts to discredit eachother personally. I guess we're still friends then... or at least polite adversaries.




posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 03:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by DrHoracid

Close...messianic jew is close enough.



lol a religous cult ( i knew you wernt a real chrsitain or jew
)
no wounder you have so many racist views.


Bodrul, brother, don't be dissin' messianic jews like that

As we all know Jesus was a Jew, a Rabbi, and his first followers after his "death" were Jews, gathered around his brother James. They were the first christians, following teachings of Jesus and practices of Jews (which are quite similar to practices of muslims btw, like circumcision, no pork, etc, etc)

That "christian" judaism was later replaced by pauline christianity and incorporated into pagan belief in Europe during Constantine era.

My knowledge on this subject is actually limited, I know only the basics, so any corrections are most welcome.

As for Horacid's anti-islamic views... well, I really don't know where does that come from.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 04:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by paperclip

As for Horacid's anti-islamic views... well, I really don't know where does that come from.


You are well versed so


My study of Islam was originally based on the "hate" of Israel by "most" middle east muslims. I also believe, mohamed was a fake. He was in my opinion a "demon" from satan to mislead the world into praying to him. I also think you pegged the "pauline" hijack of christianity into "paganism". Billions have been mislead into pagan christianity and islam. I don't "hate" muslims, only the Mohamed lie that misleads them.

The final WAR will be Islam vs Israel (including the lost tribes). The "anti-christ" may be muslim, not a false christian as so many think. The false prophet may have been Mohamed..................



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 04:07 PM
link   
wow bravo DrHoracid
you are truely a joke

first you shout your trout off about us muslims being evil and so on

now you are going anti christian?

you are a true joke



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 04:11 PM
link   
Not at the office so I can take some time.

The planet has a choice of religion. That is a personal choice. Islam is going through it version of the christian middle ages. Convert or die. As long as my children and grandchildren are safe from terrorism I don't care what happens. But the facts are clear, radical islam is intent on destroying Israel and America. They must be stopped even if it takes more war. For too long the US just sat back and "took it". Now we are taking it to "them".

Have you ever watched "the day the earth stood still", overwhelming complete destruction is the only way to have peace on earth. Christ is that "destroyer", man only screws things up. All evil shall perish from this planet. Nuclear war will happen and perhaps very, very, soon.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 04:33 PM
link   
DrHoracid, I disagree.

If the end is anything like it is described in the Bible and Qur'an, then Jesus will return to lead the righteous.
Muslims firmly believe in Jesus and his return and I can assure you that faith is very strong. Qur'an is filled with descriptions of hell for those who reject him.
So, when Jesus comes back, Muslims will follow him, just like Christians and Jews (to some extent). We will all be on the same side.
I can quote you pages and pages of Qur'an which tell the story of god's chosen people, Moses, Covenant, Israel, it is all in Qur'an. Adam and Eve, Abraham, Noah, Jesus and many other prophets. It is all one continuous revelation through ages.
You see Islam and Israel on different sides, when in fact they are on the same side.

I think the battle will be spiritual. I mean, not your typical guns-and-amo fight. We are talking about Son/Creation of God against the servant of darkness, that should be quite a fight.

My guess is, when Jesus returns, he will be recognized as extraordinary person, a Messiah, and all good people will join him, regardless of their religious label. The fight between Light and Darkness is a part of many beliefs worldwide, so people will recognize Light when they see it.
The evil ones will join the other side.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 05:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by DrHoracid
But the facts are clear, radical islam is intent on destroying Israel and America.

I wanted to quote this because you just made an extremely small, easily overlooked, but extremely important distinction. Radical Islam is in fact a great many of the things that you have said it is. The acts of radical Muslims speak for themselves. However, like Christianity, Islam can outgrow the dated political views which have brought about its violent and radical days.


They must be stopped even if it takes more war. For too long the US just sat back and "took it". Now we are taking it to "them".

We took it to them in Afghanistan, I'll give you that, but are we going to take it to them in Saudi Arabia? This is precisely the conversation I've been trying to have with you, because my point is that we need a real plan for combating Radical Islamists, and we must not let political loyalties prevent us from calling a spade a spade.
If an administration addresses Islamic fundamentalism in Afghanistan and Iraq but not in Saudi Arabia, we have a problem. If an administration is quiet as a mouse about Turkish, Azerbaijani, and Georgian Muslims comitting acts of terror in Russia, and is in fact trying to get two of those nations into NATO while the other already IS a member of NATO, then it's time to talk about where the WoT sits in our list of priorities. Also, when it comes to the carrot and stick approach, we need to actually give them the carrot when they do well. Libya has abandoned its weapons program and Gadhafi is promoting the idea of Israeli-Palestinian co-existence. If the administration does not reward that and set an alternative example for Islam to follow, then we have to prod the administration and be sure it's not asleep at the wheel.
If we're going to have a war on terror, we need to have a real live non-partisan all-american save our country from destruction War On Terror. We can't just form the ranks along party lines and support a half-hearted war on terror which consists mostly of lip-service. I don't think it should be a partisan issue. I think we should support an administration when it does something that legitimately hurts Radical Islam's ability to hurt us, and we should demand accountability from an administration when it fails to do so- period. Suppose this were a more conventional declared war, WWII for example. What if FDR had dealt with the "asian threat" by attacking China for some reason completely seperate from the true war effort, and counted on Americans not to know one Asian from another? That is basically what has happened in Iraq in my opinion. Iraq was a minor problem as compared to Saudi Arabia.



Have you ever watched "the day the earth stood still", overwhelming complete destruction is the only way to have peace on earth. Christ is that "destroyer", man only screws things up. All evil shall perish from this planet. Nuclear war will happen and perhaps very, very, soon.

Only fools argue religion or politics, and I've already been foolish enough to argue politics. I'd have to be a damned fool to argue both. All I'm going to say is that I'm not one for fatalism.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 05:25 AM
link   

Originally posted by paperclip
DrHoracid, I disagree.

If the end is anything like it is described in the Bible and Qur'an, then Jesus will return to lead the righteous.
Muslims firmly believe in Jesus and his return and I can assure you that faith is very strong. Qur'an is filled with descriptions of hell for those who reject him.
So, when Jesus comes back, Muslims will follow him, just like Christians and Jews (to some extent). We will all be on the same side.
I can quote you pages and pages of Qur'an which tell the story of god's chosen people, Moses, Covenant, Israel, it is all in Qur'an. Adam and Eve, Abraham, Noah, Jesus and many other prophets. It is all one continuous revelation through ages.
You see Islam and Israel on different sides, when in fact they are on the same side.

I think the battle will be spiritual. I mean, not your typical guns-and-amo fight. We are talking about Son/Creation of God against the servant of darkness, that should be quite a fight.

My guess is, when Jesus returns, he will be recognized as extraordinary person, a Messiah, and all good people will join him, regardless of their religious label. The fight between Light and Darkness is a part of many beliefs worldwide, so people will recognize Light when they see it.
The evil ones will join the other side.



Important issue.............do muslims think Christ died and was resurected?
His "return" will be with an army to destroy evil on this planet.



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 05:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Important issue.............do muslims think Christ died and was resurected?
His "return" will be with an army to destroy evil on this planet.


yes we do
we believe he was a prophet ( messenger of god ) and will one day return
dont know about the army s**T



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 05:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Important issue.............do muslims think Christ died and was resurected?
His "return" will be with an army to destroy evil on this planet.


yes we do
we believe he was a prophet ( messenger of god ) and will one day return
dont know about the army s**T


Please humor me here. It is my understanding that muslims are taught that Christ didn't die on the cross, but that "allah" took him straight to heaven.

Also that Abraham didn't try to scarifice Issac, but it was Ishmael instead.

Please be specific here..........



posted on Feb, 11 2005 @ 06:15 AM
link   
"The final WAR will be Islam vs Israel (including the lost tribes). The "anti-christ" may be muslim, not a false christian as so many think. The false prophet may have been Mohamed"..................

"Important issue.............do muslims think Christ died and was resurected?
His "return" will be with an army to destroy evil on this planet. "
-------------------------------------------------------------
He will come in his APPOINTED TIME!!!!!!!

If a bunch of idiots, sick of living in the world that they helped create do stupid things trying to hurry his timetable, well, we're probably gonna have to deal with the consequences until he decides to come bail us out!!

God.
Who gave Bin Laden his power?
Who gave Saddam his power?
Who provided the world's wmd's?
Who provided Saddam with his chemical weapons?
Who trained the pilots who flew the planes into the towers?
Who owned the planes that were driven into the towers?
How many years has passed since 9/11?
Why do I occasionally hear reports on my tv about suspiscous "arab-like" people are being picked up and well, higher officials are telling them to let them go? They don't have the funds to hold them?
Why is it not even six months ago I believe all the pilot schools up here where having a fit. New regulations were finally going to go into effect. Regulations that were designed to prevent any other possible terrorists from learning how to fly more planes into our buildings. Only, the website that they were referred to weren't up and running, and they didn't know how to comply with these regulations? The TSA had plenty of time to throw themselves one big shin dig, blowing lots of our money, surely they could have found the time to throw a few pages onto their site, couldn't they?

Maybe when the government starts taking this war seriously, I will take your racial hatred a little more.
Maybe I am wrong, but I think most of the Islamic community isn't that sympathetic to the radicals. Bin Laden has been trying to encourage them to rise up and strike us since before 9/11. They haven't, they're not, not unless we listen to you and threaten their safety. Ya see, while Bin Laden is sitting their ranting and raving how they should fight against their oppressors, they are looking around them and wondering, just where is the oppression. Oh, ya, it's back there in my homeland, which is why I am here.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1  2  3   >>

log in

join