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A Frightening Message from Inside Islam

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posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:13 AM
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Apparently my point did not take hold with Horacid, who would rather steer this thread towards topics only fit for PTS. Drop the neo-con stuff and let's talk about terrorism kid, come-on, it will be fun.

My belief is that the question of Islamic terrorism represents a turning point in the evolution of human culture. Where will the balance between tollerance and enforcement of cultural norms fall? Will international standards arise for the civil rights of women and religious minorities in Muslim countries as well as for the treatment of muslims in majority non-muslim countries? How will the international community deal with nations who cultivate movements like Jihad for political purposes?

These are serious issues to address and solve, but so far nobody has stepped up to the bar. Those vital questions remain in the background while the sollution to the Islamic terrorism question is cheapened into an excuse for unrelated military, political, and economic endeavors. This process is being protected by the media and the citizens who concentrate their attention on partisan political aspects of terrorism, such as the fight about "Kerry won't stand up to them" or "Bush is in business with them".

As I said, SHAME ON YOU for distracting from the issue that is going to define the world our children live in. Shame on you for using a question of national security as a vehicle for partisan arguements. Shame on you for incomplete and politically motivated list of ways in which terrorism is supported by non terrorists. Shame on you for this thread.
And on a seperate note Horacid, shame on you for your history of racially and religiously bigotted posts. Where is your respect for your fellow man?

And where are the Moderators who should change the title of this thread to reflect its contents and move it to PTS? (I realize you guys have hard jobs, but if you happen to see this, there has been some conversation recently about forcing the issue of appropriate use of PTS, right? The partisan dogfight over who is a neo-con and who is an anti-american jidadist obviously belongs there.)




posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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The dictatorship lived the democracies fall



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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DrHoracid, I recommend two books by Gilles Kepel:
1. The Trail of Political Islam
2. The Prophet and the Pharaoh.

They go in-depth on creation of political Islam in the 50s, the failed ideology of Zawahiri's teacher, from which the modern terrorist movements resulted.
Their fight against liberal individualism, that was seen as a threat to stable society, influenced creation of radical movements that are not as united as you might think.

The same original idea influenced Leo Strauss too, to create his ideology, straussianism, which was slightly altered and addopted by neo-conservatives.

Also interesting but hard to find is Sayyid Qutb's book Milestones, a muslim perspective on the whole situation.


l



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond
Shame on you for incomplete and politically motivated list of ways in which terrorism is supported by non terrorists. Shame on you for this thread.
And on a seperate note Horacid, shame on you for your history of racially and religiously bigotted posts. Where is your respect for your fellow man?

And where are the Moderators who should change the title of this thread to reflect its contents and move it to PTS? (I realize you guys have hard jobs, but if you happen to see this, there has been some conversation recently about forcing the issue of appropriate use of PTS, right? The partisan dogfight over who is a neo-con and who is an anti-american jidadist obviously belongs there.)


OK, there "jarhead" light, the only steering going on here is yours. Islam and Terror are the same thing. Actually read the "Koran" and you will find it full of "hate" for non-muslims.

This post original data is a warning to all non-muslims. It is about terrorism and psy-ops from the terrorist side.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by paperclip
DrHoracid, I recommend two books by Gilles Kepel:
1. The Trail of Political Islam
2. The Prophet and the Pharaoh.

They go in-depth on creation of political Islam in the 50s, the failed ideology of Zawahiri's teacher, from which the modern terrorist movements resulted.
Their fight against liberal individualism, that was seen as a threat to stable society, influenced creation of radical movements that are not as united as you might think.

The same original idea influenced Leo Strauss too, to create his ideology, straussianism, which was slightly altered and addopted by neo-conservatives.

Also interesting but hard to find is Sayyid Qutb's book Milestones, a muslim perspective on the whole situation.


l [/quote
Try this.

www.danielpipes.org...



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:01 AM
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The idea behind this 'message' (which IS pure propaganda and obviously written by some republican mouth piece) is not to illuminate the plan the so called muslim terrorist but to suggest and get it in to your head that moderate muslims are not doing anything to stop the flow of hate coming out of their home countries, therefore 'moderate muslims' are just as guilty of the crimes of terrorism as the extreamists. Its also is to suggest that moderate muslims are complicit in these attacks. This is insane. First of all how does any one who is on the outside of the muslim communities know what is going on inside of them. How does this author(s) know how many or which muslims are working with police and militaries to stop the violence?

This is pure hate propaganda. It basically suggestes that all muslims are bad to some degree, because its THEIR JOB to stop some insane people who claim to be of the same faith as they are from commiting acts of violence.

Well therefore we are each responsible to stop people who claim to be of the same faith as we are from commiting acts of violence against innocents. This is as crazy as a murderous terrorist is.

Is it up to all enviromentalists to stop other enviromentalists from commiting acts of violence against corperate poluters? No, of course not. So how can you hold all muslims as complicit in these crimes because they are not standing up every time something happens and saying "Bad bad bad, this is very bad and we had nothing to do with it so please do not hurt us. We are very sorry that people claiming to be muslims have done this bad thing. Hey! All you people claiming to be muslims and commiting acts of violence in the name of Allah, please stop doing this now."

Will that make you happier Dr.?

I think its kinda sick that ANY TIME any piece of "proof" or "truth" (as you like to call it) that comes up which to a thinking individual is OBVIOUS hate literature riddled with false logic and all the other half baked arguments that support your racist and sick and psychopathic views you just have to show it all to us.. like we're too stupid to have you figured out already.

What is your goal man? You want us all to suddenly believe that all the muslims in the world are out to kill and destroy us all? You want us all to suddenly be like.. "Oh #, this redneck cult moron has been right all along, the muslims of this world and their genetic code and their religion is out to get us.. quick kill them all and elect DrWhore to president and let nuke all arab countries while we are at it." Its not going to happen you goof.

YEAH I'm getting personal here. And if you want to warn, ban.. me whatever.. please do.. because I find it kind of distressing that this FANTASTIC message board is allowing obvious hate literate to be diseminated through it. LIKE WAKE UP MODS! HAVE YOU NOT ENOUGH EVIDENCE YET THAT THIS GUY IS JUST HERE TO INFLAME AND PUSH HIS HATEFILLED AGENDA?

This 'piece of proof' of 'truth' is the same as the 'protocals of zion' and I know damn well that if someone came in here and started telling us all how they are valid and true etc..etc..etc.. that that dude would be gone from here and asked not to return.

Damn, I should have put you on ignore the first damn time I told you off. Now you just wasted another 20 minutes of my time that I'll never get back because the mods here want to allow you to push your hatefilled agenda on us all.. instead of denying ignorence like we're suppose to be doing here we just keep taking your chit over and over again.. same thing different day, another argument by the Dr.Whore for as to why we should hate and dispise all muslims.

MY GOD PEOPLE WAKE UP!



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:12 AM
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Why always the personal touch? The subject is about a single point of view from a "ex-muslim". If you do not choose to believe his "e-mail" then fine, bury your head in the sand. Libs always want to stop anything that isn't PC. All the while screaming first amendment. "Tim" may or may not be real, try discussing his points and not attacking ME.

There are many that think this list is pretty real. Try proving they are not. Discuss, don't attack ME.

Mods please forgive this person their attack on my person.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
OK, there "jarhead" light, the only steering going on here is yours. Islam and Terror are the same thing. Actually read the "Koran" and you will find it full of "hate" for non-muslims.


You'll need a bigger blade than that to get under my skin buddy. I know myself and my service and I'm comfortable with both. Feel free to engage me on the issues if you have intellectual capacity. Don't feel bad if you come up short in that effort either; to use terms you're probably familiar with, "it happens to a lot of guys".


As for the Koran being a book of hate, so can the Bible be. The truth about religions is that they were founded long ago in an age where conquest and genocide were the order of the day. The books reflect this, but they also contain a great deal of wisdom. The adherents to a given religious book generally take the wisdom and accept the violence as a vestige of the past. Only an extremist or an outsider who seeks to debunk rather than to understand would focus on the violence as an integral component of the faith. Islamic extremism is a politically motivated creation which has been fed by factors having nothing to do with Islam itself. How else can you explain the fact that the powers behind Islamic extremism seek to sabotage the peace process in Israel, Iraq, and where ever else there is an attempt at creating peace, even when that peace would serve the good of believers and the spread of their faith? It is because the movement is controlled by political ideologs who wish to perpetuate their political positions and their war against the West, irrespective of what best serves the interests of those who believe in their God.



This post original data is a warning to all non-muslims. It is about terrorism and psy-ops from the terrorist side.


Actually the original post appears to contain a chain letter probably written by an American Christian. It's psy-ops alright- this is pure propaganda. Way Below Top Secret my friend.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:16 AM
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thank you Vis Mega for saying everything I was thinking. If I had any votes left I would have given you one



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by arnold_vosloo
thank you Vis Mega for saying everything I was thinking. If I had any votes left I would have given you one


Thanks I love you anyway.............Doc

Now got anthing constuctive to say? There is an entire list of issues you could choose from. Try just one...........



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:23 AM
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DrHoracid, I am familiar with Daniel Pipes, but I am also confused as to why you are linking me to his site.
In his own words:
""It's a mistake to blame Islam, a religion 14 centuries old, for the evil that should be ascribed to militant Islam, a totalitarian ideology less than a century old. Militant Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution."

So, even he thinks that Islam generaly is not evil, contrary to your claim that Islam IS evil rooted in its holy book, Qur'an.

Pipes makes a few interesting points but I do disagree with him in several things, specially the way he puts all extremists into one group. He often refers to all of them as militants, wahabists, khomeini followers etc, etc although their ideology and purpose is quite different and often in conflict with eachother.
Might be a reason why Bush got him that place in the Institute for Peace, his version of the events is often dumbed down, which goes well with the neocon ideology of presenting the simple version of truth to the masses.

Anyways, you might wanna read those books I recommended, they are more informative then internet and chain mails.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by paperclip
DrHoracid, I am familiar with Daniel Pipes, but I am also confused as to why you are linking me to his site.
In his own words:
""It's a mistake to blame Islam, a religion 14 centuries old, for the evil that should be ascribed to militant Islam, a totalitarian ideology less than a century old. Militant Islam is the problem, but moderate Islam is the solution."

So, even he thinks that Islam generaly is not evil, contrary to your claim that Islam IS evil rooted in its holy book, Qur'an.

Pipes makes a few interesting points but I do disagree with him in several things, specially the way he puts all extremists into one group. He often refers to all of them as militants, wahabists, khomeini followers etc, etc although their ideology and purpose is quite different and often in conflict with eachother.
Might be a reason why Bush got him that place in the Institute for Peace, his version of the events is often dumbed down, which goes well with the neocon ideology of presenting the simple version of truth to the masses.

Anyways, you might wanna read those books I recommended, they are more informative then internet and chain mails.


Thanks there "clipi' I have read and researched extensively on this subject. Islam itself is a false religion. Founded by a true con-man.

Islam has attacked the world from day one. History is full of examples.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Now got anthing constuctive to say? There is an entire list of issues you could choose from. Try just one...........


Well it's the dangedest thing, I constructively pointed out that my opinion that the true importance of the war on terror is being missed and the issue is going unresolved, but instead of engaging in any discussion of the true war on terror you decided to take a personal jab at me and make an exceedingly shallow comment about Islam.

Let me try this again: The war on Islamic terrorism raises major questions about how the civlized world is going to deal with cultures which treat women poorly, how we are going to address tollerance to fundamentalist religous groups in our nations without compromising your societies' values, etc etc. Many of these questions are being almost completely ignored as the focus of the war rests squarely on the issue of weapons proliferation and international dealings with secular governments in third world nations, which is little if anything to do with the war on terror at all.

So good doctor, I am asking if along with your frightening message you might like to also offer an opinion on how the world can address some of the deeper questions involved in combating and eliminating Islamic terrorism. It's all well and good that you have brought us a message of fear, but that has only propaganda value unless you use that message as the wakeup call for a presentation of ideas for a sollution.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by The Vagabond

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Now got anthing constuctive to say? There is an entire list of issues you could choose from. Try just one...........


Well it's the dangedest thing, I constructively pointed out that my opinion that the true importance of the war on terror is being missed and the issue is going unresolved, but instead of engaging in any discussion of the true war on terror you decided to take a personal jab at me and make an exceedingly shallow comment about Islam.

Let me try this again: The war on Islamic terrorism raises major questions about how the civlized world is going to deal with cultures which treat women poorly, how we are going to address tollerance to fundamentalist religous groups in our nations without compromising your societies' values, etc etc. Many of these questions are being almost completely ignored as the focus of the war rests squarely on the issue of weapons proliferation and international dealings with secular governments in third world nations, which is little if anything to do with the war on terror at all.

So good doctor, I am asking if along with your frightening message you might like to also offer an opinion on how the world can address some of the deeper questions involved in combating and eliminating Islamic terrorism. It's all well and good that you have brought us a message of fear, but that has only propaganda value unless you use that message as the wakeup call for a presentation of ideas for a sollution.


Yawn.......the study of islam is full of repression against so many things, and people, and genders, and well there just isn't enough time.

NO one cared as long as they attacked Israel, or repressed women other than in the US or the EU. They blew up thousand year old statues of Budda, and that got some attention.

They attacked US embassies, the Cole, WTC bomb 1, Yawn.....no one cared.

Then 911, even libs cared.........amazing.

Islam is repressive....period.

You are talking about Global control of the masses. Very NWO.

(ps jarhead light) wasn't intended to be an attack, just poor humor on my part.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid


Thanks there "clipi' I have read and researched extensively on this subject. I



hehe, I've been a muslim for all 27 years of my life, and still am. I LIVED in a muslim country, a secular muslim country, for 19 years, which (surprise, surprise) isn't populated by terrorists although people read the qur'an and pray every day. ( that should turn them into killers, according to your theory "quran is the source od evil"). The last 8 years I've spent in a western country, studying (not killing infidels). I am an educated woman with masters degree, my mother too. ( so much for the theory that Qur'an is a source of oppresion of women)

I think I am qualified enough to talk about my religion, probably more qualified then you are, since your posts show that the basics of Islam seem to elude you.

I do not know from which books you "studied" Islam, but they seem to be highly inacurate.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by paperclip

I do not know from which books you "studied" Islam, but they seem to be highly inacurate.


Much of the world and the US only see the evil side of Islam. Hamas, Al Quackie, OBL, the Taliban, etc, etc, etc. The treatment of women in the middle east under "Islam" is well documented. If you are content in your life then great, I am happy for you. Don't confuse my "opinion" with a lack of study. Half the people I work with are Muslim. They "seek" the passive part of Islam blindly just as Christians do with the New Testiment. Neither are real..............



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
They "seek" the passive part of Islam blindly just as Christians do with the New Testiment. Neither are real..............


Quite the contrary, they ARE very real today and they ARE the true faith. They are not the "passive" part, they are the true thing, true religion.
You are stuck in the past, so it seems, regarding both religions.

What religion do you belong to, btw? I'm guessing jewish?



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by paperclip

Originally posted by DrHoracid
They "seek" the passive part of Islam blindly just as Christians do with the New Testiment. Neither are real..............


Quite the contrary, they ARE very real today and they ARE the true faith. They are not the "passive" part, they are the true thing, true religion.
You are stuck in the past, so it seems, regarding both religions.

What religion do you belong to, btw? I'm guessing jewish?




Close...messianic jew is close enough.

Here is a link about Allah.......
www.apologeticsindex.org...



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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lol

Do you want to fight the links war?
You hit me with links I hit you with some.... thats tiring.

I can refute right away the first sentence on that site. The site states:

"However, Islamic tradition teaches that only Muslims will be admitted to Paradise."

Qur'an teaches:

(2:62) Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who believes in God, and believes in the Last Day, and leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

So, the basic of their claim is simply not true.

Some other verses on Jews and Christians, for your reading pleasure:

3:113 among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate (they pray)
(3:114) They believe in GOD and the Last Day, they advocate righteousness and forbid evil, and they hasten to do righteous works. These are the righteous.
(3:115) Any good they do will not go unrewarded. GOD is fully aware of the righteous.

(5:44) We have sent down the Torah, containing guidance and light. Ruling in accordance with it were the Jewish prophets, as well as the rabbis and the priests, as dictated to them in GOD's scripture, and as witnessed by them. Therefore, do not reverence human beings; you shall reverence Me instead. And do not trade away My revelations for a cheap price. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the disbelievers.

(5:46) Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

(5:47) The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked.

(5:48) Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.




Basicaly, each group has its own book and should rule in accordance to that. Rules of Gospel apply to christians, rules of Qur'an to muslims etc, etc.

As it says in Sura 2:

(2:256) There shall be no compulsion in religion.



posted on Feb, 10 2005 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid

Close...messianic jew is close enough.



lol a religous cult ( i knew you wernt a real chrsitain or jew
)
no wounder you have so many racist views.



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