Do you wonder why Samuel,Buddha,Christ, Muhammed, Quetzalcoatl, Einstein were long haired?

lifehopeandtruth.com/god/who-is-jesus/where-did-the-popular-image-of-jesus-come-from/

www.christiantoday.com...

a reply to: Specimen

i was gonna post that it is a pretty well known fact that Jewish men during that time kept their hair short, and Jesus was a Jew, he was born into a Jewish family and raised in the Jewish Tradition and he came for the Jews first.
The Error of the Long haired Jesus

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Jesus lived among the Nazarites. He only cut his hair once a year before tossing it into a raging fire amongst other male Nazarites as was the custom of the day. So for at least some of the year, Jesus had long hair. Jesus was a rebel, most people forget that.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

If people with less level of proximity to the divinity like the parents of Samuel or Samson offered their sons in nazarite vow, and considering that such was the case also of his cousin John the Baptist, it is not difficult to understand that St Mary and St Joseph would not act with less devotion with respect to God than such other peoples and do so.

The problem here is that even the millenary traditional look of Christ is being pulled into debate by sectarian groups in their confrontation with other churches, and for me it is not a surprise at all that the Roman Catholic church is mentioned in this business, after all it is the favorite "criminal" organization for those fanatics that only want to make prevail their position against the Christian Tradition.

The accusation that the iconographic image of Christ was invented by the Roman Church is part of the sophism that try to destroy the idea that there is apostolic tradition, that there are indeed religious organizations that come from it, from a tradition that can be traced back along the centuries until the first century, that is really what this fanaticism to portrait Jesus with a classic Roman or Greek look or a modern fascist look is about.

This is a fundamentalist position to destroy the concept of Apostolic tradition since only by doing that it is possible to destroy also the religious authority that comes from it, to replace it with the new concept of Authority from the Bible, and since the bible does not mention nothing about the look of Jesus then of course it is crucial to deny what the traditions says, otherwise you must accept that the tradition is as important as the bible itself. The idea behind it is not to discover the truth but to say what is politically convenient for those groups.

Who ever really knows the subject is aware that other christian organizations that are as old as the Catholic one also use the same iconographic representation of Jesus, that is the case of the Armenians, Assyrians, Coptics and Gnostics that separated from the Roman Catholic church in the V century, as well as also that is the same long hair look that you can see in any Orthodox icons, from churches that separated from Rome in the XI century.

Please check:

www.orthodoxmonasteryicons.com...

www.copticplace.com...

orthodoxinfo.com...

I never have found one single writing of Martin Luther saying that the traditional iconography of Christ was invented artificially or that he had any argument to try to prove it by the way, that is a Protestant sophism invented probably centuries after him, why? because Martin Luther didn't support his supposed authority in religious subject just in the Bible, but in his own Priesthood and Theology Doctoral degree.

If you enter in any Episcopalian or Anglican Church in England or America or any other country of the British Commonwealth you are going to identify immediately the image of Christ for the same look, that is enough to show that you and your "source" are debating something that is not subject of even discussion.

please check:
conciliaranglican.com...

Just in case you insist to resist the truth Have you ever seen an orthodox jewish Rabbi on our days?

www.myjewishlearning.com...

are you Impressed? look please for teachers that really know what they are talking about concerning Judeo-Christian traditions because the ones you are reading are misinforming you and just teaching you politics.

Thanks,

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: Specimen

That only shows how influenced were the first Christians of Spain by the way the pagans gods were represented in times of the Roman Empire, they associated Christ with a pagan deity ( Mythra) that also had the role of the good shepherd in the Roman pantheon, although it was adopted really from the Persian religion.

Please check:

www.truthbeknown.com...

Thanks,

The Angel of LIghtness

a reply to: ADSE255

Jesus was not a Nazarites as in the sense your saying, true he was born Nazareth, but that doesn't make him a Nazarites.
check out Numbers 6: 1-21.

did Jesus drink wine? why yes i believe he did.
did Jesus touch dead bodies? why yes i believe he did.

did he cut his hair? although there is nothing in the bible that says he did or didn't, being that he was born a Jew, and ministered as one to Jews, and no where in the new testament is it mentioned that Jesus the " Nazarite" in the sense of taking the vow or being born a permanent one like Samson. remember a Nazarite was held in high regards by Jews and it is very clear that most of the Jews didn't hold Jesus in such a manner. so if as a Nazarite he came around preforming miracles, and preaching it surly would have been pointed out that a Nazarite was doing them just like when Samson and Samuel were.

so if as you say he was a rebel, why would he take a vow and then break such a vow, or if his father/mother dedicated him before birth?

now i suppose that just before he made the journey to the cross in the upper room in Jerusalem, and said

King James Version Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
Jesus in in the Gospels

so that would indicate that he had not been living as a Nazarite.

plus as you say they burned their hair once a year, if he would have been doing that surly in at least one of the Gospels it would have been mentioned that he went to the Temple to do that because that is the only place that a offering could be made and the burning of the hair was done after the sacrificial offerings, and could only be done at the Temple in Jerusalem.

so if he did take a vow, it must not have meant much to him seeing how he broke the laws concerning the becoming a Nazarite quite often.

originally posted by: silo13
This is where I get really frustrated with you because you're intelligent and you're knowing and you're informed - but all about the wrong things - and I would so love to see you apply the intellect you have to something that's EVERLASTING.

Well, we're kind of in the same boat on the Sea of Galilee. You have the sad condition of feeling self-satisfied and maybe a little bit superior with knowing what you have been taught, even if it's wrong. It's sad because nobody is likely to persuade you otherwise, and unless you open your own eyes you'll never see the real light.

a reply to: The angel of light

are you Impressed?

not in the least.

look please for teachers that really know what they are talking about concerning Judeo-Christian traditions because the ones you are reading are misinforming you and just teaching you politics.

please your brand of teaching are the one that are misinforming.
you mention Luther and the Episcopalian or Anglican Church. well first, there are many who feel Luther wasn't the know all authority that many want to make him out to be. second the episcopalian and anglican churches have their roots in the church of england started by a man that wanted a divorce so he could marry another women he was lusting after, and a known whore monger, who declared himself the head of the church of england, so yeah i'm gonna listen and take stock in anything that comes from them without thinking about it for myself.

look God doesn't expect you to following Jesus, or worship him blindly. you need to look into the light you claim that your a angel of.


ETA:

Just in case you insist to resist the truth Have you ever seen an orthodox jewish Rabbi on our days?

you mean the three corners law, not the whole head, or the face. did you even read your own link.

The verse: “Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard” (Leviticus 19:27) is understood by the talmud ic rabbis not to mean that it is wrong for a man to be clean-shaven, but only that facial hair must not be removed with a razor. The standard code of Jewish law, the [16th-century work by Rabbi Joseph Caro,] Shulchan Arukh (Yoreh De’ah, 181:10) rules that it is permitted to remove all facial hair with scissors even when this is done as closely as if with a razor. On the basis of this, many Orthodox Jews shave with an electric razor on the grounds that technically this machine, with its two blades, is not to be treated as a razor.

and futher down,

Most westernized Jews do not wear beards, including many Orthodox rabbis, who shave with an electric razor but sometimes sport a small goatee beard as a bow in the direction of the tradition. Yet it can be observed that the wearing of a full beard is coming increasingly into fashion among the Orthodox. Reform Jews do not consider the prohibition on shaving with a razor still to be binding.

as i said God doesn't intend for you to follow or worship blindly, he expects you to put some thought and effort into your belief not follow what some man said. he knows your heart and intent.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

The bible does not say nothing about that he actually touched corpses, he resurrected people but in each of the accounts of those miracles he always called the death people to go out of their tombs by themselves or to wake up, the scripture tells us that he actually talked to the resurrected ones but not that he touched them.

Now, Jesus drank what the people of his time and place used to drink but that does not mean he was a drinker, of alcoholic beverages, even the word wine in the bible is used in a generic way to describe that it was made from grapes, but when the bible explains what was the vow of Nazarites the scripture is straightforward to refer they couldn't drink fermented wine, so why they use the adjective 'fermented' because the wine could be just a grapes juice by the way.

Please check
www.jesus-is-savior.com...

Jesus perfectly may have risen as a nazarite, remember that there is a gap in the canonical gospels in between Jesus at his early childhood, no more than 7 years old probably and Jesus at his 30 years when he started his public ministry, why there is no reference of family life along all his adolescence and part of his childhood? a good reason would be that he was risen very close to a synagogue, perhaps serving on it.

Again, your mistake is that you are exclusively referring to what it is written in the bible, ignoring what the christian traditions transmitted along generations orally tell us about him. To many Apostolic churches can not be wrong about something so important by the way.

St John warns us that the bible does not contain all what Jesus did or said, therefore if we want to know them it is valid to appeal to other sources inside the tradition.

St John 21: 24This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who has written them down. And we know that his testimony is true. 25There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written.

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: silo13
This is where I get really frustrated with you because you're intelligent and you're knowing and you're informed - but all about the wrong things - and I would so love to see you apply the intellect you have to something that's EVERLASTING.

Well, we're kind of in the same boat on the Sea of Galilee. You have the sad condition of feeling self-satisfied and maybe a little bit superior with knowing what you have been taught, even if it's wrong. It's sad because nobody is likely to persuade you otherwise, and unless you open your own eyes you'll never see the real light.

Star for your post - as always.

Honestly? I do not feel superior nor do I feel self satisfied... I wish I could explain it better but it's like I know something that's so incredeble. So filled with love and hope and promise. Something that makes life worth living and I just wish you could see it/feel it...

It's like making the best food in the world and you just want to feed everyone but like a horse at water - you can't make people eat.

peace

a reply to: The angel of light

The bible does not say nothing about that he actually touched corpses, he resurrected people but in each of the accounts of those miracles he always called the death people to go out of their tombs by themselves or to wake up, the scripture tells us that he actually talked to the resurrected ones but not that he touched them.

really, i guess your not up on the scriptures like you make out to be. it is true that a couple of times he called out, and the dead rose. but at least once he touched a dead child, a second time he touched the coffin, a third time after driving out a demon the boy collapsed now was this one dead? most who were there thought so, and Jesus touched him.

Mark 9:25-29New American Standard Bible (NASB)

25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was [a]rapidly gathering, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “You deaf and mute spirit, I command you, come out of him and do not enter him [c]again.” 26 After crying out and throwing him into terrible convulsions, it came out; and the boy became so much like a corpse that most of them said, “He is dead!” 27 But Jesus took him by the hand and raised him; and he got up. 28 When He came into the house, His disciples began questioning Him privately, “Why could we not drive it out?” 29 And He said to them, “This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer.”

Luke 7:14 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
14 And He came up and touched the coffin; and the bearers came to a halt. And He said, “Young man, I say to you, arise!”

later in in luke

Luke 8:49-55 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
49 While He was still speaking, someone *came from the house of the synagogue official, saying, “Your daughter has died; do not trouble the Teacher anymore.” 50 But when Jesus heard this, He answered him, “Do not be afraid any longer; only believe, and she will be [q]made well.” 51 When He came to the house, He did not allow anyone to enter with Him, except Peter and John and James, and the girl’s father and mother. 52 Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, “Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep.” 53 And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died. 54 He, however, took her by the hand and called, saying, “Child, arise!” 55 And her spirit returned, and she got up immediately; and He gave orders for something to be given her to eat. 5

besides it didn't matter if he touched them or not, or if he was a Nazarite with long hair. he was the son of God.


ETA: oh and a side note,

Now, Jesus drank what the people of his time and place used to drink but that does not mean he was a drinker, of alcoholic beverages, even the word wine in the bible is used in a generic way to describe that it was made from grapes, but when the bible explains what was the vow of Nazarites the scripture is straightforward to refer they couldn't drink fermented wine, so why they use the adjective 'fermented' because the wine could be just a grapes juice by the way.

it was not just wine it was anything made from grapes.
read and understand Num 6 1-4

Numbers 6 : 1-4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

Again the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘When a man or woman makes a [a]special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to [c]dedicate himself to the Lord, 3 he shall abstain from wine and strong drink; he shall drink no vinegar, whether made from wine or strong drink, nor shall he drink any grape juice nor eat fresh or dried grapes. 4 All the days of his [d]separation he shall not eat anything that is produced by the grape vine, from the seeds even to the skin.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Well, it seems we have arrived to a kind of agreement, this was never a discussion of ordinary people that offer to God a vow, one fundamental detail forgotten in all your impressive rhetoric, that Jesus of Nazareth was not an ordinary human being after all, at least that is what you must believe if you really trust those scriptures.

Jesus Christ represents since birth a unique relationship between a Human being and God, for which there are no precedents at all neither before him nor after him in History.

Jesus is considered the incarnation of God himself in a human being, let me remind you that is an article of faith for 2 billion people around the world, so it is not quite absurd to try to apply to him the same standards that exist in the law of Moses to ordinary people?

I found intriguing your insistence to mention the law of Moses here and there supposedly to support the existence of bounds that may constraint the ministry of Jesus, that is quite contradictory not with respect to just some quotes taken from the Gospels, but with respect to the entire message of the New Testament by the way.

The point you were trying to make seemed, with all respect, essentially the same of the pharisees that criticized him for heal people in Saturday?

At least by the ending of your last post you realized how wrong was your judgement on this subject when finally you became aware to be talking about somebody that was very special, divine in origin, so not subject to the Law.

The thread however, is not about Jesus Christ alone, but about a lot of other wisemen in History that decided to use long hair, including a lot of mystics and prophets, but also intellectuals in many areas.

The Angel of Lightness

a reply to: The angel of light

no my point is your full of BS, you insist that oral tradition is the answer for your post, but when i or other pointed it out in a written and oral tradition you say we're being narrow minded.

you also say things that are falsehoods and when your shown otherwise act as if your right and bring up some other BS. you do this in all your threads and think that you are holier than thou.

just one more point before i leave this useless thread for good.

I found intriguing your insistence to mention the law of Moses here and there supposedly to support the existence of bounds that may constraint the ministry of Jesus, that is quite contradictory not with respect to just some quotes taken from the Gospels, but with respect to the entire message of the New Testament by the way.

Jesus words or do you doubt them.

Matthew 5:17-19New American Standard Bible (NASB)
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not [a]the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever [c]keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

once again i have shown that you have no idea what your going on about. you do realize that Jesus was the final sin offering for all men right, and that through him all of the laws that God gave Moses were fulfilled.

Well, it looks like I'm doomed...

I shave my head.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

Oh, Oh, be careful here it is again your incredible large ego, that so arrogant rhetoric that only drives you to think first that the thread is about only one single important person in History, moreover one only point of view about him, and also that your personal obsessions on him have the very last word concerning how He behaved, even to the point to contradict articles of faith of the largest and eldest religious organizations that follow his teachings.

Galatians 3:23-25
Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

I have enough of you, I think we must come back again to the real subject of the thread and go deeply in why there is this common characteristic among so large and important number of crucial figures in sciences, arts and creeds.

2 Corinthians 3:15–16

15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

The Angel of Lightness