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California introduces bill forcing presidential candidates to release taxes

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posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Actually ...



IRC 6103(d) provides that return information may be shared with state agencies responsible for tax administration. The state agency must request this information in writing, and the request must be signed by an official designated to request tax information.


IRS - Disclosure Laws





(4) Tax administration

The term “tax administration”—
(A) means—
(i) the administration, management, conduct, direction, and supervision of the execution and application of the internal revenue laws or related statutes (or equivalent laws and statutes of a State) and tax conventions to which the United States is a party, AND

(ii) the development and formulation of Federal tax policy relating to existing or proposed internal revenue laws, related statutes, and tax conventions, AND

(B) includes assessment, collection, enforcement, litigation, publication, and statistical gathering functions under such laws, statutes, or conventions.


This proposed law doesn't have anything to do with tax administration.




posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:31 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Why would you assume that Hawaii and California would approach the matter in the same way?

Followup: The Disclosure laws/rules from IRS allow for a State agency to request information on a taxpayer as I noted. The definition you submit states clearly that CA could request verification under (B).
edit on 17-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Does California have State agencies that are responsible for tax administration?

If so, all that is need to verify a tax return is a written request to the IRS.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

If they could just write and obtain his tax returns, they wouldn't have to write a law requesting he release them.
edit on 9/17/2017 by MotherMayEye because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:38 PM
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originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Gryphon66

If they could just write and obtain his tax returns, they wouldn't have to write a law requesting he release them.


Does the law apply only to Donald Trump?

And, per the rules you and I have quoted from the IRS, California could do that, although they could not release them certainly.

I'm sure the final version of the law will be tighter than what we see.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:40 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Followup: The Disclosure laws/rules from IRS allow for a State agency to request information on a taxpayer as I noted. The definition you submit states clearly that CA could request verification under (B).


Note the word "AND" in between (A) and (B).




The term “tax administration”—
(A) means—
(i) the administration, management, conduct, direction, and supervision of the execution and application of the internal revenue laws or related statutes (or equivalent laws and statutes of a State) and tax conventions to which the United States is a party, AND

(ii) the development and formulation of Federal tax policy relating to existing or proposed internal revenue laws, related statutes, and tax conventions, AND

(B) includes assessment, collection, enforcement, litigation, publication, and statistical gathering functions under such laws, statutes, or conventions.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

Yes ... AND?

California qualifies under all those categories.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

... AND secondly, you're quoting from an entirely different sections of law from the IRS Disclosure Rules ...

26 US Code 6103



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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Third, there is nothing that says that California has to put anyone on their Primary or General Ballot.

There are criteria in each of the 50 states for being on their ballot, that are set by the States themselves.

A taxpayer (under both laws) can designate another to receive their confidential information.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: opecz


Sorry to burst the bubble but that will never happen as they need congress to back up this law, rule, bill or whatever.


Its not going to happen.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: marg6043



Sorry to burst the bubble but that will never happen as they need congress to back up this law, rule, bill or whatever.

No. Congress doesn't have a lot to say about state ballot access laws.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MotherMayEye

Yes ... AND?

California qualifies under all those categories.


I have looked and cannot find where a state's SOS is authorized to obtain tax returns from the IRS.

If you can find that they are, please post.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22
I wonder how this will get by the legal system. Other than California's system anyway.

Exactly. It is a violation of his rights, just like if they mandated this on you or I.
The only entity that should care about his taxes, is the IRS.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: charlyv

Is this a violation of your rights?

Rights In Posted Materials: By posting on this message board, you relinquish all exclusive copyrights to any materials you Post and furthermore, you grant TAN non-exclusive, non-revocable worldwide, royalty-free rights to copy, distribute, display, reproduce, modify, adapt, create derivative works, and publicly perform the materials in perpetuity in all forms.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you post on ATS you are releasing your exclusive rights to the material you post.

If you want your name on the California primary ballot, you will release your tax returns. Seems pretty straight forward.
edit on 9/17/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 02:57 PM
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What about school records? Birth certificates? Health info?



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: Phage

As it stand today showing tax returns when it comes to the position of president of the US is voluntarily, meaning is not laws in congress that will back any laws that California wants to pass on their state.


Because this as state level it will affect those that are within the states regulations, any other candidate that is not from that state will not apply or will not fall under those laws or rules.


What California is doing is just stirring the pot as usual, they will be again as lame as they have been so far after Trump won the elections.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: MotherMayEye

I would guess that a simple waiver on the part of the taxpayer/ballot applicant would allow CA to do what it needed to do. Also, as no one is required to apply to be on a ballot, and it is a willful act, it seems to me that disclosures required by the State would not abridge Fourth Amendment rights.

There is no right to be on a ballot.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: marg6043

As it stand today showing tax returns when it comes to the position of president of the US is voluntarily, meaning is not laws in congress that will back any laws that California wants to pass on their state.
Congress does not have to "back" any state laws.



Because this as state level it will affect those that are within the states regulations, any other candidate that is not from that state will not apply or will not fall under those laws or rules.
Unless they want to be on a ballot in those states. In which case they must follow the rules of those states.


edit on 9/17/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 03:07 PM
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Just in case nobody has mentioned as I have not read the entired thread.

California's Democratic governor, Jerry Brown has not released his tax returns in 30 years, so talking about double standards and he is the one that have to sign the bill to come into effect

Nothing but a gesture, a push an scream in the dark to show that California is the leader of democracy.

This my take of the whole issue.



The bill because it affects the constitutional rights of individuals can be challenged in court.

Good luck with that one.



posted on Sep, 17 2017 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MotherMayEye

I would guess that a simple waiver on the part of the taxpayer/ballot applicant would allow CA to do what it needed to do. Also, as no one is required to apply to be on a ballot, and it is a willful act, it seems to me that disclosures required by the State would not abridge Fourth Amendment rights.

There is no right to be on a ballot.


I agree. There's no guaranteed right to appear on a state's ballot. I am not arguing the position that California can't enforce this law if it passes. I bet they can.

I was just stating that instead of requiring the candidate authorize the IRS to disclose the information, they've gone the route of requiring the candidate to release it.

As I said earlier, when I renew my IBR payment plan every year for my federal student loans, I am asked to authroize the IRS to release my tax return information directly to my lender.

I would think this law would require the same if it was intended to really force transparency. But I don't think any of the people behind it really wants transparency. I see it as posturing.



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