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Looks like the Left will be destroying St. Louis tonight

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posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:03 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Further, the point of a great deal of the anger of the Black community is not always directed at a cop killing a Black man, but rather at the times that an UNARMED Black man is killed.

And in this discussion, as several have pointed out ... why aren't we ALL angry about that? And angry about cops using lethal force on ANYONE who is unarmed?


a lot of white people seem to believe that a black man is dangerous unarmed or not, that he has superhuman strength to draw on, and also hatred, and will use it to kill with his bare hands.

rationalwiki.org...



Yes, and the roots of that belief run right back to the plantations, but, I forget, for our Conservative friends racism doesn't exist anymore.


Well I am conservative and don't believe that.

You however seem to have no problem assuming that FBI victimization and arrests numbers can't be trusted because the cops must be racist or something.



Blatant appeal to your own authority? What's your sample size, 1?

Strawman? Why don't you post my argument that FBI stats can't be "trusted' ...

You're not even trying to be rational these days.




posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:05 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Further, the point of a great deal of the anger of the Black community is not always directed at a cop killing a Black man, but rather at the times that an UNARMED Black man is killed.

And in this discussion, as several have pointed out ... why aren't we ALL angry about that? And angry about cops using lethal force on ANYONE who is unarmed?

The argument in the Smith/Stockley case is simple. Smith was an "urban" drug dealer, and urban drug dealers ALWAYS have guns. Ignore the fact that none of Smith's DNA was on the weapon. Ignore that St. Louis already settled a WRONGFUL DEATH suit four years ago to the tune of $900,000 to Smith's daughter. Ignore that the cop in question went to the back of his vehicle and riffled around in a duffle bag (and lied about doing so to get a First Aid kit) and then broke SOP by corrupting the crime scene.

The rate of police killing UNARMED Black men in 2016 is 3.5 times what it should be according to population density. Source

There's plenty of anger to go around in the Black community, and some of it should be spreading to the rest of us.



So if we're supposed to ignore the verdict in criminal cases because we--the general public, who didn't sit in the courtroom and hear all the evidence but only get to go on what's publicly available through the news etc.--think that verdict was wrong, what's the point of having a legal system at all? Why don't we just go back to posses and lynchings and such? I mean, that's basically what you're saying, right? You don't agree with the verdict, and a bunch of other people who probably weren't in the court room and just got their facts from the papers too don't agree with it, so we should throw it out because we don't agree with it. And it that's not what you're saying, then what's your point? You keep harping on how you think the judge reached the wrong verdict--what the hell do you want to actually DO about it?
edit on 18-9-2017 by riiver because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:05 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Yes, and the roots of that belief run right back to the plantations, but, I forget, for our Conservative friends racism doesn't exist anymore.

The sick, sad, repulsive side of this is that when you peel all of the statistical mumbo-jumbo away from their arguments, ALL they are left with is sputtering that Black men are somehow more violent, less able to process things rationally, prone to crime ... and they pretend to have no idea that the same arguments that Jim Crow made a century ago.


it's very frustrating, yes.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:09 AM
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a reply to: riiver

I haven't said even one time that we should ignore verdicts.

Whenever you feel yourself about to say something like "I mean that's basically what you're saying, right" you're about to hang a strawman.

If you care about the quality of your argument, don't.

As far as what I want to do about it? I'm doing it here. I'm trying to get people to understand, viscerally, that the Black community is angry and has reason to be, and we aren't going to be able to address ANY OF THAT while we sputter about statistics and tell them they're not smart enough, or educated enough or cultured enough or whatever the hell the excuse is to understand what's "really going on."

What do you want to do? Trust the cops and courts without question? What a good little statist!



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:09 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
The sick, sad, repulsive side of this is that when you peel all of the statistical mumbo-jumbo away from their arguments, ALL they are left with is sputtering that Black men are somehow more violent, less able to process things rationally, prone to crime ... and they pretend to have no idea that the same arguments that Jim Crow made a century ago.


In fact I think it is you exhibiting that mentality.

I never once claim that a persons race makes them more violent or unable to process things.

I said there can be many factors that lead violence in these communities; but I never once mentioned genetics.

You have infantilized black people so much that for you they must be innocent despite the facts, and therefore we can't look at facts.

I think that black people are adults that deserve the same respect as any other group; we do not have to have special rules that say viewing statistics about there group is someone wrong.

Take a look at the example of men again. You would never say "Those that cite stats showing men commit more violent crime are just bigotted against men!"

Why do you feel the need to treat black people as inferior that we can't even discuss crime statistics about?



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:11 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

If you want to start from a place of honesty, stop talking statistics and start talking anger, most of it justified.



Translation: stop looking at facts and lets discuss feelings.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:16 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Further, the point of a great deal of the anger of the Black community is not always directed at a cop killing a Black man, but rather at the times that an UNARMED Black man is killed.

And in this discussion, as several have pointed out ... why aren't we ALL angry about that? And angry about cops using lethal force on ANYONE who is unarmed?


a lot of white people seem to believe that a black man is dangerous unarmed or not, that he has superhuman strength to draw on, and also hatred, and will use it to kill with his bare hands.

rationalwiki.org...



Yes, and the roots of that belief run right back to the plantations, but, I forget, for our Conservative friends racism doesn't exist anymore.


Well I am conservative and don't believe that.

You however seem to have no problem assuming that FBI victimization and arrests numbers can't be trusted because the cops must be racist or something.



Blatant appeal to your own authority? What's your sample size, 1?

Strawman? Why don't you post my argument that FBI stats can't be "trusted' ...

You're not even trying to be rational these days.


Well you were referencing people citing stats that were conservative, and said they harkened back to Jim Crow. I don't.

So whats your sample size. Zero?

I cited FBI stats, and you ignored them and posted this.


Gee, I wonder why LEOs tend to arrest more Blacks... do they really commit more crimes, or does their economic status keep them from being able to afford high-priced lawyers to get them off?

Hmmmm.


So are you admitting the FBI numbers that show for example blacks commit around 50 % of homicides is accurate, because your quote seems to suggest they are unjustly arresting black people.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:18 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler

In fact I think it is you exhibiting that mentality.



I'm long past caring what you think.


originally posted by: Grambler

I never once claim that a persons race makes them more violent or unable to process things.



Cool, I've never said you did.


originally posted by: Grambler

I said there can be many factors that lead violence in these communities; but I never once mentioned genetics.



I've never said that either.


originally posted by: Grambler

You have infantilized black people so much that for you they must be innocent despite the facts, and therefore we can't look at facts.



That's utter, lying, stinking feculence. I am arguing that we treat Blacks like we treat everyone else, and realize that their anger is justified. You are the one that wants to quote fake statistics.


originally posted by: Grambler

I think that black people are adults that deserve the same respect as any other group; we do not have to have special rules that say viewing statistics about there group is someone wrong.



I'm glad to hear that you realize that Black Americans deserve the same respect as we all do. We aren't talking about SPECIAL RULES and you know it. We're talking about facing reality rather than sputtering about statistics that are questionable anyway.


originally posted by: Grambler

Why do you feel the need to treat black people as inferior that we can't even discuss crime statistics about?



Because crime statistics aren't the problem. The problem is the belief that Blacks are "different" somehow, which you've been arguing the whole time here along with your cronies. And now, you're desperately backpedalling and trying to accuse me of that.

Your posts suggest a mind that has become repulsive.
edit on 18-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: Grambler


Put 100 White people from a cross-section of America in Room #1.

Put 100 Black people from a cross-section of America in Room #2.

Publishers Clearing House will give you a Million Dollars if you pick the room that has the most former criminals. Which room would you pick?



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

I didn't ignore your stats, I ignored you.

For good reason.

edit on 18-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:22 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Grambler


Put 100 White people from a cross-section of America in Room #1.

Put 100 Black people from a cross-section of America in Room #2.

Publishers Clearing House will give you a Million Dollars if you pick the room that has the most former criminals. Which room would you pick?


See Grambler?

This is the kind of mentality that your "statistics" support.
edit on 18-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:24 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: riiver


As far as what I want to do about it? I'm doing it here. I'm trying to get people to understand, viscerally, that the Black community is angry and has reason to be, and we aren't going to be able to address ANY OF THAT while we sputter about statistics and tell them they're not smart enough, or educated enough or cultured enough or whatever the hell the excuse is to understand what's "really going on."


What utter nonsense!

You are the one saying blacks aren't capable of hearing stats and facts. Why on earth would discussing these harm black people?

What arrogance! You also assume the black community is like a monolithic thing. Many of those angry and rioting are not black. Many black people are not viscerally angry at cops or law enforcement.

Again, you want to argue feelings and not facts.

This is exactly white white racist do. You can talk to them till you are blue in the face with facts about how their visceral anger toward blacks is unjustified, but there FEELINGS don't need facts.

The fact that you feel that discussing rather or not unarmed blacks really are more likely to be shot by police, or why violent encounters with police are more common in some black communities is unnecessary and instead we should just look to feelings is indicative of why the problem is nowhere near being addressed in the way it should be.


What do you want to do? Trust the cops and courts without question? What a good little statist!


See your suggestions regarding strawmen.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:25 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66
Ah, ok. I see now.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:26 AM
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a reply to: Grambler

Why don't you quote me saying that Blacks aren't capable of hearing facts and stats?

Quote it or apologize to me and this forum for such a blatant lie, or be seen as the fraud you are.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:27 AM
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WHITE people are more capable criminals than blacks BY FAR(Greed will take care of THAT,guns and training tops the cake) but there are just MORE blacks all CRAMMED into democratic HOVELS to fester and create discord because they aren't parented ,educated NOR LED by any competent people to do so.
Just treated to whatever was legally obligated THEN dumped out.
White people spank and the fathers STAY most of the time.
We prefer the burbs or country,where criminals aren't and go there the moment we can instead of staying in hells.
AT LEAST if you're POOR which I have always been.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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originally posted by: Grambler

You are the one saying blacks aren't capable of hearing stats and facts.


Tick tock. Quote me saying this crap. The fraud alarm is about to go off.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: cavtrooper7

Cav, I have to say in light of the lying, fraudulent garbage arguments we're seeing here this evening, thank you for an incredible and pure honesty.

There's no doubt about what you think, and good or bad, that's like a breath of fresh air in here.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:38 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Why don't you quote me saying that Blacks aren't capable of hearing facts and stats?

Quote it or apologize to me and this forum for such a blatant lie, or be seen as the fraud you are.




Lol, don't feel so good, right?
😏



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:39 AM
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originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Grambler

Why don't you quote me saying that Blacks aren't capable of hearing facts and stats?

Quote it or apologize to me and this forum for such a blatant lie, or be seen as the fraud you are.




Lol, don't feel so good, right?
😏


Why don't you do something useful and quote my saying that yourself, sunshine?

Aside from sniping from the sidelines with zero-content posts.



posted on Sep, 18 2017 @ 12:40 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66


That's utter, lying, stinking feculence. I am arguing that we treat Blacks like we treat everyone else, and realize that their anger is justified. You are the one that wants to quote fake statistics.


Fake statistics? What is fake about them?

And you are treating blacks like children; you would not throw out statistics about crimes stats of other groups with no evidence as you have with blacks. You would not say we shouldn't look at the facts when discussing say white interactions with police because their viseceral feelings are justified.

This is proven by the fact that again, these riots are about police shooting unarmed black men, when the best study on this shows unarmed white men are more likely to be shot.





I'm glad to hear that you realize that Black Americans deserve the same respect as we all do. We aren't talking about SPECIAL RULES and you know it. We're talking about facing reality rather than sputtering about statistics that are questionable anyway.


Of course I believe that. Treating people as equals means not having to ignore facts and focus on feelings because you feel they are marginalized. That is what you do, because somehow you feel black people are incapable of rationally looking at facts.

Again, I mention hear again that it seems as if a large portion of the trouble makers rioting on this are WHITE people. I do not think race has anything to do with an ability to look at facts; you are claiming that looking at stats that may explain the reason for police violent interactions with some black communities is somehow wrong.



Because crime statistics aren't the problem. The problem is the belief that Blacks are "different" somehow, which you've been arguing the whole time here along with your cronies. And now, you're desperately backpedalling and trying to accuse me of that.

Your posts suggest a mind that has become repulsive.


Show me where I said black people are different. You are the one that continually refers to the black community as monolithic and being viscerally angry; I have repeatedly said that whites were rioting, many blacks have feelings all over the issue on this.

I also showed that unarmed white people are more likely to be shot than blacks, but you ignore this.

But even given that, I think it is definitely worthwhile to discuss cops shooting unarmed black people (or people of any race).

I think that we should start under the assumption that neither side is inherently evil. Therefore we have to get an explanation of why this happens.

These shootings would seem to arise in situations where police and civilians are involved in high intensity situations. The biggest reason for a high intensity encounter would be areas with high levels of violent crime.

Some predominantly black neighborhoods have hugely disproportionate high levels of violent crime; therefore high intensity encounters with the police would occur more often, and thus police shootings would be more likely.

You on the other hand want to start under the assumption that the cops are racist, and therefore we should not look at any reason as to why these shootings happen.

As long as people with your mentality control the conversation; the problem will never be solved.




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