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Looks like the Left will be destroying St. Louis tonight

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posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: riiver


to find someone guilty, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty.


I'm not forgetting that at all... the cop shot and killed a man. He is guilty. That's the ultimate violation of a person's absolute natural and Constitutional right to life -- at the hands of government, with no due process or equal application of the law. There is no doubt at all that the cop killed him. The cop is guilty of taking a life. Period.

In accordance with the law, and due process, the cop should have been given any and every opportunity -- in a court of law -- to provide an affirmative defense, in which he can provide evidence to show lives were in danger, including his own. If he could successfully prove he was acting against a direct and imminent threat to his own life, his action would be deemed "justifiable." He would not be "not guilty," because a life was still taken. But it would be "justified."

The problem is that since the Garner vs. Tennessee decision by the Supreme Court, an officer only has to claim that he feared his life might be in danger... thus the so-called burden of proof is now placed on the authorities to prove that he did not fear that he might be in danger.

And that's an impossible task. Hence, the perception (if not the reality) that cops have a license to kill with impunity.


This is an interesting argument and actually does question my stance on the overall topic.




posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: riiver

No jury, I think he elected for a judge to determine and this is the result. Appeals should be possible. Civil cases are also possible. There are avenues left but telling those in the streets won't dissuade any of them IMO.


There was a civil case in 2013. The City of St. Louis settled a wrongful death suit for $900.000.

St. Louis Post-DIspatch

Also of note, the attorney asked that the settlement case be reopened in 2016 as the State had not provided the evidence at the time that Stockley's DNA was the only found on the firearm.

I wonder why that evidence would not have been provided.



In his letter, Watkins says city and state attorneys never turned over copies of reports showing the presence of only Stockley’s DNA on the revolver that Stockley said he found inside Smith’s car.

Stockley has said he handled the gun to unload it after the shooting.

Watkins says the state and city also did not provide a copy of a cellphone video taken by a witness immediately following the shooting. Watkins says the video shows Stockley did not retrieve a first aid device when he went back to his police car after the shooting, as he said he did.


Post-Dispatch
edit on 16-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted

edit on 16-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: CB328
Don't you mean to say black people will destroy St Louis??


Why???

Plenty of white people causing trouble too, but nice try.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 01:40 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: CB328
Don't you mean to say black people will destroy St Louis??


Why???

Plenty of white people causing trouble too, but nice try.


Perhaps you can show us in this discussion where the White protesters were emphasized?



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 02:07 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: CB328
Don't you mean to say black people will destroy St Louis??


Why???

Plenty of white people causing trouble too, but nice try.


Perhaps you can show us in this discussion where the White protesters were emphasized?





Why, all you do is put words in people's mouths.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

Oh come on. Quote even one post concerned about all the White protesters? That's your claim right?

Show me. In honor of Missouri.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

But the thing is, this wasn't an IA investigation into whether it was a justified shooting. If it were, I'd have to agree with you. He was charged with 1st degree--premeditated--murder. And in criminal cases the burden of proof is always on the prosecution. Innocent until proven guilty.

Now, before you say thet there was no question that he killed the guy: no, there wasn't. But in 1st degree murder, the prosecution has to prove not just that the defendant killed the victim, but why also. Intent is an important component. If intent can't be proved, than a guilty verdict cannot be brought in. They would have had to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that he set out to murder the guy and did so, that there was no possibility he might have believed he was in danger of great bodily harm when he fired the shots. And it doesn't sound like that was proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Preponderance of evidence is not enough.

Now, to be clear: I'm not saying I think the cop was innocent, neither am I saying I think he was guilty. Just that it doesn't appear to have been proved--again, beyond a reasonable doubt--that there was no way it could have been anything but premeditated murder. And like it or not, that's the way the legal system is set up, on the premise that its better to let 100 guilty people go free than to wrongly convict 1 innocent person.
edit on 16-9-2017 by riiver because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: thesaneone

Oh come on. Quote even one post concerned about all the White protesters? That's your claim right?

Show me. In honor of Missouri.


What am I claiming?

The protest is made up of both black and white protesters.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

The case was re-opened on claims of new evidence, but the judge notes in his opinion that the new evidence was never brought forward.

That is in the St. Louis articles you are referencing as well.

There is a whole bunch in there about the judge's 30-page decision and why he decided as he did.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:08 PM
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And in criminal cases the burden of proof is always on the defense.


So how does that work.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

And this bothers you why? What a bunch of people I dont know do to each other is none of my concern. Until it becomes my concern..



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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originally posted by: roadgravel



And in criminal cases the burden of proof is always on the defense.


So how does that work.


Holy #, thank you for catching that! I edited to fix it. I just mis-typed--I was thinking how so much of the general public seems to feel the defense has to prove their innocence when in reality its the exact opposite, my thoughts got ahead of my fingers, and they typed "defense" when I meant prosecution. Thanks again for catching it.
edit on 16-9-2017 by riiver because: Typo gremlins again



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:24 PM
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a reply to: HassenBinSobar

Did I say I was bothered?



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:29 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

Thanks for adding information that we already have.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:31 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: HassenBinSobar

Did I say I was bothered?


You don't need to say it.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:32 PM
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The only way a cop or cops are ever convicted is if it’s on video and it shows a direct murder. Even then its still difficult to convict a cop.


You can count on one hand how many times a cop is convicted of murdering a citizen and if the victim is black or brown the odds get even worse.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:35 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

Now, show us any discussion of the White protestors, because there's plenty of musing about Black people in the thread ... as pointed out.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: thesaneone

I forget you can read minds.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Enough to point it out maybe? Still I digress, St Louis deserves what it gets as does most other heavily left leaning cities. Squash individual rights in favor of a socialist stance on how the public should adhere to their version of societal norms.

They are their own worst enemy, they have it coming. Its the difference between knowledge and wisdom.



posted on Sep, 16 2017 @ 03:39 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: thesaneone

I forget you can read minds.



And you put words in others mouth.



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