Half of 18-34 year olds would give up the right to vote, in exchange for no student loan debt

a reply to: dug88

My 4 year double major cost me 30k for the whole thing. No financial aid or loans I lived at home and paid college in cash. Almost Everyone can do what I did. I had friends paying 30k a semester for the same education I got with the same job opportunities. They graduated with 300k in loans while I graduated debt free because I made a better choice.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What do you mean? I got crap advice from my financial aid counselor in college and didn't know any better. It's not like we had the internet, back then, to research. If you wanted advice on financial aid, back then, you went to your college financial aid counselor.

Not being wise to the world yet, I didn't realize the advice I was getting was in the best interest of the college, not me.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

And that's your mistake. You put your future in someone else's hands.

Rather than teach kids to be more responsible we keep teaching them it's ok not to be.

We need people to understand personal responsibility at younger ages, instead we keep pushing it back where now it seems like if you are in your 20s it's expected you will be immature making bad choices.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: MotherMayEye

And that's your mistake. You put your future in someone else's hands.

Rather than teach kids to be more responsible we keep teaching them it's ok not to be.

We need people to understand personal responsibility at younger ages, instead we keep pushing it back where now it seems like if you are in your 20s it's expected you will be immature making bad choices.

Did I say it wasn't my mistake? I absolutely regret it.

My home life wasn't the most stable in high school and I had two older sisters who also took out student loans so that's what I thought you had to do if you wanted to go to college.

I'm sorry I didn't get any college counseling in high school and bad advice in college. Back when I started college, people weren't drowning in student loan debt.

Hindsight is 20/20.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

Don't feel bad, it's more common than you think. Most people I know are still in debt from their student loans, and will probably be burdened by it for life -- that's why this decision would be so easy for some to make. By no means are they stupid people, they just didn't have anyone guide them in the right direction. Bad decisions are part of growing up, and if you haven't made mistakes, you're missing a huge part of life. Like you said hindsight is always 20/20 and thats the greatest teacher you have.

Unless you are fortunate enough to have role models in your life that have already made the mistakes for you. Not everyone is.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

My point isn't to bash you my friend it's that our children aren't doomed to make the same mistakes. But it requires us realizing there's a better way, and 300k in loans shouldn't be the norm.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: dug88

My 4 year double major cost me 30k for the whole thing. No financial aid or loans I lived at home and paid college in cash. Almost Everyone can do what I did. I had friends paying 30k a semester for the same education I got with the same job opportunities. They graduated with 300k in loans while I graduated debt free because I made a better choice.

The biggest cost while attending college isn't tuition, assuming you pick one with average or below average costs. It's the price of supporting yourself while attending. That's what almost always trips people up, especially if living in your parents home isn't an option.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

My sister racked up $125k in student loans. But, then she is a dentist and was able to pay them off in 5 years.

That's the lesson I am giving my own kids. If they aren't planning on a career that will allow them to pay off their loans within five years, then go to vocational/technical schools or community college where the tuition is affordable without student loans. Of course I also want them to push themselves and get scholarships, if possible.

In fact, a lot of people from my hometown skipped all of it and went to work at the local steel plant where they make $100,000 a year now with only high school diploma and are happy & debt-free.

***

ETA: And actually, my husband works at a very nice private college that will provide free tuition for our kids. If they can't get accepted there, they also have a tuition exchange program with other colleges in the state.

I am hoping that he still works there when my son graduates and that he can take advantage of that.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
In fact, a lot of people from my hometown skipped all of it and went to work at the local steel plant where they make $100,000 a year now with only high school diploma and are happy & debt-free.

There's a lot of value in being able to work the jobs you want to work.

a reply to: Aazadan

Yes. But, it's also overrated. By the time I was 40, I was burnt out on my chosen profession.

Id give up my american citizenship to get rid of student loan debt.
Americas student loan situation is one of americas biggest failures. It fails the students. Entire grnerations. The schools. Everybody lost on that one. But none more so then the bamboozled students lead into the whole scam.

GOOD :Epsilon series members DO NO'T need to vote again.
THEY are mostly that old.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Aazadan

Yes. But, it's also overrated. By the time I was 40, I was burnt out on my chosen profession.

But it provides options, if you go work at the local steel mill, even though it's a good wage, you're never going to be able to go elsewhere, or do anything else.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Aazadan

Yes. But, it's also overrated. By the time I was 40, I was burnt out on my chosen profession.

But it provides options, if you go work at the local steel mill, even though it's a good wage, you're never going to be able to go elsewhere, or do anything else.

One of my BFFs is an office manager there. She could get a job managing any office with her experience.

***

ETA: BTW, she actually does have a BA in History....and she's never had a job that utilized her degree. In fact, I can't think of a single job that might come from having a BA in History.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
One of my BFFs is an office manager there. She could get a job managing any office with her experience.

That's good for your friend. My point I was trying to get at though is that a better education allows you to be employed at multiple companies. A steel worker with no education might (and I stress might) be able to get a good wage doing factory work, but they're going to be a slave to that companies fortunes. There's little opportunity for relocation or advancement. With a good education though, you can work in many locations, in a variety of jobs. Not only working the job you want to work, but where you want to work. And, you'll generally do better with promotions too because you have the leverage of being able to go elsewhere.

In the current economy, the best wages come from acting like a mercenary and changing employers every 18-24 months. In order to do that, you need to have a solid education and flexible skills.

I work for a large manufacturer and on occasion I tour our factories. We have a lot (and I mean a lot) of employees who have been with the company for 20, 30, or even 40 years working on the factory floor. They get a good wage and benefits considering what the job is, but they have virtually no economic or social mobility. They're slaves to the system. Sometimes that's all people want or care about in a job, but I think that given the option most people would rather do something better with their time than work an assembly line and be a cog in a machine. This leads to unfulfilling professional lives, which in turn cause other problems in society.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
ETA: BTW, she actually does have a BA in History....and she's never had a job that utilized her degree. In fact, I can't think of a single job that might come from having a BA in History.

A bachelors in history has almost no job potential, it generally needs to be paired with something as part of a dual major, and even then requires taking it to a Masters level. If you take it that far, there are some good jobs to be had, but it's generally overproduced.

So basically, your friend only took her education 1/4 as far as required.

a reply to: Aazadan

In all fairness, the friends I have who work there are lab workers & managers, floor managers, and office managers...and their experience would qualify them to work at many companies.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: dug88

My 4 year double major cost me 30k for the whole thing. No financial aid or loans I lived at home and paid college in cash. Almost Everyone can do what I did. I had friends paying 30k a semester for the same education I got with the same job opportunities. They graduated with 300k in loans while I graduated debt free because I made a better choice.

Ya my debt is about 30k and despite paying it regularly since 2010 its down to about 25k now. So I guess out of the almost 15k I've paid back so far about $5000 has gone to actually paying anything back.

a reply to: dug88

Never make the minimum payments on a debt. That goes for any debt. Always budget for making 1-2 extra payments (if not more... I use 4 total payments myself) per month directly to the principal.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

It's all about teaching kids to make good decisions. College isn't for everyone.

a reply to: dug88

If you make 6 more an hour that's roughly 12k extra a year. If all that went to the loan it would be basically paid in 2 or 3 years.