Half of 18-34 year olds would give up the right to vote, in exchange for no student loan debt

a reply to: ketsuko

Actually, if a borrower is on a PAYE or IBR plan, then they are very likely to be eligible for forgiveness on the balance after 20 or 25 years.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: CynConcepts

I didn't get any guidance on college or financial aid -- my mother didn't have any advice and my dad passed away while I was still in high school. My high school guidance counselor never discussed it with me, either, so I ended up going with what my college financial aid guidance counselor recommended...which was advice that benefitted the college, but not me.

I can understand that and can admit that my daughters are fortunate to be in this age. No one, even me, could help them. They went on the Internet and researched everything for themselves. Nowadays, it is necessary.

I was able to get by with using Internet tutorials and testing at job placements businesses. Not having a degree was not a problem. I had a contract time to prove my education and going through a middle man...my employers never realized I was not degreed. I knew my stuff! Same with my husband, though he lucked out 20 years ago when his page one got mixed with page 2 of someone else's resume! They thought he was degreed. He was simply a genius in computer coding. His employer knows now...but they will not get rid of him. He knows how to think out of the box to resolve issues...most degreed educated folks at his level and below are completely stuck in the pre-made boxes they learned about.

a reply to: MotherMayEye

That's still a lot of money in the government's coffers.

Can you imagine them surrendering it?

a reply to: ketsuko

I cannot imagine them surrendering it...BUT, keep in mind, you can pay $0/mo. on an IBR plan if you do not work and you still qualify for full forgiveness after 20 years.

As of now, anyway.

Blessed to have had the GI bill when I needed it.

I only voted in the Brexit referendum and none of the general elections i've been eligible to because what's the point.

I'd take this deal. If only to stop getting that threatening blackmail letter every month that i've received for the past 5 years.

Wow, I'm surprised that so many here would give up their right to vote.

Out of curiosity now, could we push this a step further? Would you let a dictator assume office in exchange for having your student loan debt repaid? Because that's what we're ultimately talking about here, going down the road of giving away your voting power leads to a dictatorship if everyone does it.

originally posted by: JAY1980
I say do it! If you were gullible enough to take a high interest federal loan for a less than adequate education then you probably shouldn't be allowed to vote.

They're not that high interest. I was able to get subsidized loans (0% interest while in school) every year. I only took them one year, and paid them off during that year. So it was in effect a 0% loan. Unsubsidized student loans are something like 3% which is much better than you'll find on private loans.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Aazadan

A lot of people become burdened for life by their student loans. I'd take this deal in a heartbeat.

Easy peasy..

And the loss of a political voice wouldn't burden you? It's an entire generation, if they were able to take this deal who would in effect lose representation, and therefore the ability to defend themselves from everyone else expecting them to pay all the bills.

Giving up this debt, would only lead to more debt in the long run.

originally posted by: knowledgehunter0986
a reply to: Aazadan

A lot of people become burdened for life by their student loans. I'd take this deal in a heartbeat.

Easy peasy..

And the loss of a political voice wouldn't burden you? It's an entire generation, if they were able to take this deal who would in effect lose representation, and therefore the ability to defend themselves from everyone else expecting them to pay all the bills.

Giving up this debt, would only lead to more debt in the long run.

Lets explain this in terms of states. If Iowa had no representation in Congress because they gave up their right to vote, would anyone ever care about Iowa?

originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe
Being way past the age of a millennial...I cannot imagine the debt, nor never being able to vote.
I wonder if the younger people in this country see little benefit to voting and feel they are not giving up a sacred duty???

I had an interesting discussion with my professor the other day about the ethics of voting. I walked away from it unsure of where I stand. Normally, I think that the default is that you shouldn't vote, with the exception being that if a candidate is good, you should vote for them. I think this leads to higher quality candidates in general, and not a lesser of two evils scenario.

The odd thing about voting though, is that the less votes there are, the more valuable each one becomes. If we take this to the logical extreme and we're reduced to just two people with the right to vote, then reducing it to one represents a huge change in power. But when even close votes have margins of millions of people, votes are worth very little.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Aazadan

If you think the government will ever forgive student loan debt now that it services all those loans, you're crazy.

It's like getting a certain segment of the population in your debt on two ends: monthly debt payments of a significant chunk of disposable income for darn near life AND their taxes before that income becomes disposable.

Democrats NEVER met a revenue stream they didn't like, and they'll never vote to give it up.

They'll give it up. That debt is reducing further revenue streams because it means an entire generation cannot afford things like home loans, investment/retirement accounts, or being financially secure. When it comes down to it, the government would rather people have money in the bank to buy things, than be saddled with payday loan debt that doesn't fuel the economy.

Debt free citizens have much more buying power, which in turn means much better tax revenue and more entrepreneurs.

a reply to: Aazadan

Out of curiosity now, could we push this a step further? Would you let a dictator assume office in exchange for having your student loan debt repaid?

Just out of curiosity, given that there is no essential difference between left and right, what difference, at this point, does it make?

I know, it's an old meme.

Relevant though.

Is it not a dictatorship when the politucal ideas are the same no matter who you vote for?

Perhaps you just need a figurehead to define it.

Well, I don't vote and I don't have student debt.....

However, only a fool relinquishes his right, imo.

Even if you chose not to use it, it's still worth having.

While I don't plan on voting soon, even if offered 5k cash to give it up I would refuse.

Keep in mind this, I'm assuming, would be for all votes. Whether local, state or federal elections. Possibly on individual bills as well.

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: Aazadan

Out of curiosity now, could we push this a step further? Would you let a dictator assume office in exchange for having your student loan debt repaid?

Just out of curiosity, given that there is no essential difference between left and right, what difference, at this point, does it make?

I know, it's an old meme.

Relevant though.

Is it not a dictatorship when the politucal ideas are the same no matter who you vote for?

Perhaps you just need a figurehead to define it.

There's plenty of difference between parties, the problem is that there's really only a handful of sane solutions and the devil is in the details. It doesn't play well in a world of mass media, soundbytes, and generalities.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: Aazadan

Out of curiosity now, could we push this a step further? Would you let a dictator assume office in exchange for having your student loan debt repaid?

Just out of curiosity, given that there is no essential difference between left and right, what difference, at this point, does it make?

I know, it's an old meme.

Relevant though.

Is it not a dictatorship when the politucal ideas are the same no matter who you vote for?

Perhaps you just need a figurehead to define it.

There's plenty of difference between parties, the problem is that there's really only a handful of sane solutions and the devil is in the details. It doesn't play well in a world of mass media, soundbytes, and generalities.

Where are the differences?

Can somebody vote to reduce the influence of banks in society? What party flies on that promise?

What party will allow people to decide if they want to go to war? Any party you know of?

The fundamentals never change. We get to vote on what candle to put on the birthday cake.

You know I am not lying.

a reply to: Jonjonj

Elizabeth Warren is on that platform. Now get her through a primary.

originally posted by: Aazadan
Wow, I'm surprised that so many here would give up their right to vote.

Out of curiosity now, could we push this a step further? Would you let a dictator assume office in exchange for having your student loan debt repaid? Because that's what we're ultimately talking about here, going down the road of giving away your voting power leads to a dictatorship if everyone does it.

I think our election systems were hijacked after the 2000 election via the reforms that have been made, since then. I base that conclusion on several years of research. When I vote, I am just giving 'them' my vote to manipulate into whatever they want it to be. I am THAT disenfranchised.

If they want us to have a dictator, voting isn't going to stop it from happening.

So that's how much I value my right to vote.

But good news! There are no safeguards that might deter any eligible or ineligible person from casting a worthless vote in nearly every single state!

Yay! And it only cost me the full value of my own vote for that to happen.

Hey, wouldnt that be perfect for the majority here on ATS? A wet dream i imagine.

the system for higher education has taken an extremely predatory turn. the costs of tuition and books have risen far faster than any wage you can make as a student. not to mention the general cost of living in the US. i was lucky to have some scholarships, lessening my need for loans... and here i am 15 years after graduation and still trying to pay off the last $5K.

many who came after me are in far worse shape, and finding that the degree they were told they needed isn't leading to the employment they were encouraged to believe was waiting for them.

we've put too much money in the pockets of the top 10% for too long, and they have not reinvested in society. trickle-down my ass, that's piss you're feeling... not money.

a reply to: Aazadan

I didn't realize my decision would have generational repercussions. I took it in the context of a per individual basis. What somebody else chooses to do is their business.

My one vote won't affect anything.

I'm personally not in debt, but I have many friends that are struggling because of their student loans and I'm sure they would all take the deal if given the opportunity.

originally posted by: CynConcepts
Admittedly, I have trouble understanding how anyone can go into so much debt from college.

Well, this is the UK. Expansion of universities became a New Labour policy - to get 30% of high school graduates (or school leavers as we call them) into university. The mantra was that "students with a degree, earn 30% more than those that don't" and "to achieve this growth, students will have to take on debt". So the universities expanded with all sorts of degrees such as "golf course management" and Afro-Carribean studies. They also became more internationalized with students from all across the world, as the universities were allowed to charge £9000/year per
student, more than they got paid for native students. One post-grad student brings in £120K/year for the university as a whole. It became a whole money-making industry.

The universities gain from this because it allows them to compete against the universities in the USA. Employers gain from this because it lowers wage demands. The downside is that British families have to find that amount of money. Unlike American universities, there aren't really that many jobs that can be done by students. Everything like cleaning is either outsourced or done by public sector workers with union protection. There are various scholarships but they are related to post-grad work or international exchange programs like Fulbright Awards.

Another thing is that many British universities aren't on their own campuses. They are actually located downtown in many cities, in old Victorian buildings or modern office-block style buildings. Then students like to live locally close to the pubs and nightclubs, so that's created a huge demand for HMO's (Homes in Multiple Occupation) and Buy-To-Let landlords; people who buy budget apartments solely to rent out to students. Even the universities themselves have bought out and adapted entire apartment blocks solely for students. This led to many parts of cities becoming "student ghettoes". This then causes a housing shortage as first-time buyers get priced out of the housing market. So a Victorian house rents out for £800/month, even more if it happens to "look down on" royal property.

Now, that makes property expensive for everyone else, and now we have such a serious housing shortage that the government was actually putting bedroom tax on unused bedrooms on council housing - even though the tenants really didn't have a choice when they were on the waiting list.

Honestly, if someone told me that my $25,000 of student loan would be forgiven as long as I didn't attempt to vote, I'd take it. Frankly, no one I'd ever vote for is going to get elected anyway; this country is just not where I am politically, so there's no need for me to even waste my time.

The first time I ever voted, 1996, I voted for Ross Perot and in 2000, I voted for Ralph Nader. After 2000, I came to the conclusion that the national election was a circus I no longer was willing to participate in. So..... Would I take the deal? Most likely.

a reply to: intrptr

REALLY ? Where did you come up with that one .

a reply to: CynConcepts

It is awesome to hear of people like your daughters . My son and daughter did the same both have master degrees and minimal loans .