6,000 years: can someone explain this to me?, page 1
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reply posted on 10-2-2005 @ 07:36 AM by RANT
Archbishop Ussher came up with the orginal proof from Genesis and some fancy figgerin' that the exact birthday of the Earth was October 23rd, 4005 BC and that remained undisputed dogma for centuries. Depsite all evidence to the contrary now though, it's still quite feverishly pushed today in varying forms and fashions.

Example Google Return:

6,000 Year Old Earth

Scriptural Timeline (from a pastor)

You may note in some arguments there's a general anger directed toward all science and intellectualism in general. Not that scientists don't return that hostility in kind to 'young earth' creationists, but where it gets real interesting is the anger of literalists against intelligent design hybrid theorists. Like you can't be a Christian and believe in science or evolution at all.

Check it out Herman. I'd be interested in your thoughts.



reply posted on 10-2-2005 @ 11:56 AM by RANT
There's sooo many sites on reef age. It's a common discussion among young earth creationists and long ager evolutionists.

This site is a decent (and simple) one stop shop for long age proofs that happens to deal with prevalent young earth claims on reefs.

Earth History -Reef

He first discusses "rapid reef growth" claims, and their sources, then delves into...

How Fast Can Reefs Really Grow?

By far the most contentious isse here is the rate at which reefs can grow. Studies of reef growth in the modern Pacific show that even under ideal conditions, the growth of the actual reefs is only on the order of 8-10mm a year (see below). Note that individual corals can grow a bit faster than this, but this cannot be used to estimate the growth rate of the *reef* itself, since the reef is not one giant coral, but is largely composed of billions of coral fragments that are broken by waves and cemented to the growing mass (see below).

So, assuming an average 10mm per yr growth rate, the Eniwetok Reef would require 140,000 years to grow to its present thickness. And this assumes no compaction, no destruction by storms, no temporal breaks in growth, continuous optimal growth rates, and adequate subsidence rates. All of these assumptions are entirely unreasonable, and thus any estimate based on extrapolation of optimal reef growth rates is clearly a minimum.


Just food for thought.

Also, the speed of light = 299 792 458 m / s CONSTANT

Not a very useful number without considering the distances between objects like other stars.

The Light Year: A Measure of Distance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The distance that light travels in a year is so large that it is a useful unit of distance in astronomy:

Light Year: the distance that light travels (through a vacuum) in one year (9.46 x 10^17 cm).

The nearest star (other than the Sun) is 4.3 light years away.

Our galaxy (the Milky Way) is about 100,000 light years in diameter.

The distance to the galaxy M87 in the Virgo cluster is 50 million light years.

The distance to most distant object seen in the universe is about 18 billion light years (18 x 10^9 light years).


If the universe were to be created in a single blow (or week as per Genesis), the first star wouldn't appear in the sky for the first 4.3 years. That's probably all we'd still see now if creation was under 6,000 years old. To see the rest of the stars in our galaxy alone would take 50,000 years with a 100K diameter (assuming we were in the middle).

Also did you catch the part about how we can stand on Earth and see light coming from objects (now dead) 18 billion light years away?

Again, just food for thought.

I certainly don't "witness" science to shake real faith. I just don't get what some aspects of faith (like believing in young earth creationism) have to do with Religion? Or being a good Christian for that matter? Stubborn is all it is.

[edit on 10-2-2005 by RANT]



reply posted on 10-2-2005 @ 12:20 PM by Truth
sanduleak 69 202 is irrelevant, I just read about it and the scientists made one point.


" Creationist believe that the stars were created intact for the light of the earth, however this would involve a super natural miracle "



thats the difference. We believe in miracles, evolutionist do not. Thats the whole basis of the arguments. miracles.



Also what about the honey bee? Ive heard that it can make calculations far greater than the smarter computer in the world? I also heard that granite was created in less than 1 second by the Polonium halos found in it.



" what are the miracles you have seen personally "


You know some on your own too.

taste buds.
The amazing creatures that exist.


The creation is too incredible for nothing to do this, it just is, from how animals all have a specific task, to natural medicines
that can be found in the earth, to the beauty of nature.


It sound corny and childess to you learned souls, but its true.


Why would evolution desire us to have all this beauty and good fealings and taste of food?


evolution is nothing, it doesnt desire for us, but our nature seems like it was made for us and for our desires.


I can get into the miracles ive seen on another thread, as a matter of fact im writing down all the miracles that my family has seen and i have seen and im going to post them one day. Some of this stuff you guys will just shake off as nothing, but
its truly remarkable some of the stuff ive seen God do with me and other people. Amazing.



peace.


[edit on 10-2-2005 by Truth]


reply posted on 10-2-2005 @ 02:36 PM by Herman
For me to sum up my entire thought-process on the creation of the earth and it's relevance to science would take up way too much time and space for me to type out. I'm not stubborn enough to actually believe that the earth is only 6,000 years old, but I do believe in God. I'll admit that I haven't read the whole bible, but as far as I know, the bible and specifically the old testament doesn't mention anything about dates. Specifically, dates that are measured in the same terms that we measure dates. The point of God, to me, IS the impossible. Science only goes so far. Far enough until it comes to something could not have come from absolute nothing. Nothing meaning NOTHING. No oxygen, no singularities, no chemicals, NOTHING. That's as far as science goes in my mind. People then ask, "What about God? He couldn't have come from nothing either". But to me, that's the point. God's beyond our comprehension of time and space. God's bigger than us; infinitely more intelligent. (Sorry, went off track for a minute). God goes beyond our comprehension of impossible. This is why the 6,000 years argument is irrelevant to me. I think RANT actually said it quite well:

I just don't get what some aspects of faith (like believing in young earth creationism) have to do with Religion? Or being a good Christian for that matter? Stubborn is all it is.


I think I understand now where the 6,000 years argument came from. That was the main point to my post. The other one was just to point out the irrelevance (Again, to me) of that argument. I saw a forum where some people were talking about Noah's ark, and how scientists are testing the wood they found to see if it's really 6,000 years old, thus confirming that it was Noah's. I just though that a date was a stupid thing to base the reality of Noah's ark on, since not all Christians (Or even most for that matter) believe in the "Young Earth" theory, and I wanted to know where it came from.

Thanks

[edit on 10-2-2005 by Herman]


reply posted on 10-2-2005 @ 11:37 PM by Umbrax
Originally posted by Truth

I love you guys and will always pray for your souls, ...

Thanks

...what I've seen is not a theory, its only seen to those who want to see it and believe.

By definition evolution is a
theory.
So is all religion. The theory of evolution is solid.

"One tiny miracle disproves the biggest theory of all time."
There is one miracle that we can't explain. It's How did the very first life come to be?
We know what is needed for life but we do not know what that spark was.

Every one believes something. I prefer to question it and find my own answers. If the evidence is solid. Then I will believe it. But believing just because someone told me do, I can't do that.


reply posted on 12-2-2005 @ 12:00 PM by Umbrax
Originally posted by Herman

But didn't someone tell you about evolution? Have you actually gone to the places Darwin visited, and whitness evolution and seen the fossiles yourself? Who compiled your evidence and varified everything for you? Was it a textbook, or does Darwin finally have a competitor?


I think I know what you are getting at, and what you are really asking. You do bring up a good point.
Why believe what one person says over what another person says? When I said I prefer to find my own answers I didn't mean that I scour the Earth digging up evidence. Trust me if I could I would.
The way I take in information is by not believing it. I need to prove it to my self. Be it by text book, Internet, or whatever. I'm not going to believe something just because some one says it's true or because it is in print. I believe them based on credibility and logic.

Which book should I believe is factual? The book made thousands of years ago in a different language that has been translated and rewritten who know how many times, or the book that has been written by scientists who have dedicated their life to finding the answers by hands on research?

The bible was written way before we discovered Radiometric dating. People needed explanations to things back then too. Just like in the past we believed the Earth was flat.
Who knows maybe down the line we will find proof discrediting evolution. But for now there is endless evidence of evolution. So again what book should I believe to be more factual?
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