So, I Have Questions???? North Korea

I do think there's a conspiracy, but before I go there I have a few questions...

Note - These are serious (not sarcastic) questions.

(Background - I am very familiar with International travel and have traveled overseas in Asia for years with work...but never NK).

1. Let's say I wanted to go to North Korea (forget the US travel embargo for a moment), what would I have to do to gain access to the country? Is there a Visa or invitation requirement? Is it a travel visa or what, and how long is it valid for?

2. Okay, so now I'm inside NK as a tourist, and I'm seeing all the "fun / happy" sights. Then, one night, I'm bored and I decide to go exploring and get into trouble with the authorities. Nobody in the group I was with knows what happened to me. Does anyone get notified? Who?

3. I get taken into custody and, after a several of weeks of silence, am charged with some heinous (but bogus) charge...like espionage. No one in NK would give a hoot if another foreigner is charged with some crime, so how is this charge communicated to the outside world? Does the US State Department get notified? Or, does some other diplomatic channel get used? If so what / how? What is the actual mechanism of communication? Does somebody call someone, or does some official document get transmitted? Again, what and to whom?

4. Now I've been in custody for a while (weeks / months) and the NK government decides to send me to "court" to be tried for my crimes. Clearly the NK government wants these things to be a spectacle, so how does the outside world get notified of my pending trial...or do they? Again, what is the official mechanism which communicates all these events to the outside world?

So, the bottom line here is; I am trying to understand the communication channels. Does communication happen from the outside "in" to NK, or from inside NK "out" to the outside world? And who is involved in these conversations? (i.e. Chinese, State Dept. or some intermediate country with diplomatic relations, etc.). And then lastly, given there are no formal diplomatic relations between the US and NK, what official role does the US State Department play in any of this?

Thanks!

P.S. Okay, I guess it was a little more than just a "few" questions.

And one last Extra Credit question...

5. After being incarcerated (and presumably interrogated, tortured and treated harshly) I fall ill...in a coma even. The NK government decides to release me after some kind of political pressure (probably never learn how this part happens), but I'm not ambulatory. In other words, I need to leave via medivac. How does this action take place?

In the case of Otto Warbier, he needed to be flown out, but certainly the Norks weren't going to let a US military plane just fly into Pyongyang (and I doubt they have medivac flights of their own which would be allowed to fly into an outside airport), so how exactly does this evacuation take place? Who does it?

Whatever happened to Otto Warmbier would happen to you exactly I guess?

a reply to: szino9

That's exactly not the answer I'm looking for!

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I understand what you looking for, I mean if you read everything about him and his situation it might answer your questions? I am not trolling you.

a reply to: szino9

Believe me, I'm pretty sure I have...and for every article there's five conflicts to every point. No two stories are the same about the sequence of events, and in nearly every one of them these particular details are either omitted or just glanced over.

BTW...this isn't really about Otto Warmbier directly, it's more about the process, a detailed understanding of the process and how it works. Who talks to whom, what things are official and what are not, what parties are involved, etc.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Ok. I didnt know any answers so started to search. First question: if you are traveling with a US passport, effective 1st of September 2017 your passport is invalid to that country.

Effective September 1, 2017, U.S. passports are not valid for travel to, in, or through North Korea, unless they are specially validated by the Department of State. See here for how to apply special passport to travel to North Korea.

travel.state.gov...

And just for the record, here's what I'm getting at...

I have read several books by released NK prisoners, done a good bit of research and am familiar with a number of recent cases (including Warmbier's). Throughout all of this there seems to be some common denominators...

1. People almost always claim the State department (at some point) tells them to remain quiet and not talk to people about their experiences.

2. There seems to be a great deal of reluctance to discuss anything other than just general details, nothing specific. I could understand this if an escapee had family remaining in the country who would be at risk, but not most of the others who do not.

This leads me to conclude there must be some officially "Unofficial" process which takes place, and I'm trying to understand what it is.

a reply to: szino9

Yes, I am acutely aware of this. Perhaps you missed this part in Question #1...

(forget the US travel embargo for a moment)

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Hello I will try to answer some of your questions.

1. Let's say I wanted to go to North Korea (forget the US travel embargo for a moment), what would I have to do to gain access to the country? Is there a Visa or invitation requirement? Is it a travel visa or what, and how long is it valid for?

You can go easily by travel office. If on your own You have to go to the nearest NK embassy in Your country and ask for Visa. Then just book tickets on plain from some Chinas airports.

2. Okay, so now I'm inside NK as a tourist, and I'm seeing all the "fun / happy" sights. Then, one night, I'm bored and I decide to go exploring and get into trouble with the authorities. Nobody in the group I was with knows what happened to me. Does anyone get notified? Who?

If You are going to be arrested at night Your partners should notice that at morning, ask the hotel service or trip guide for You. They will ask police and get know what is going on.

3. I get taken into custody and, after a several of weeks of silence, am charged with some heinous (but bogus) charge...like espionage. No one in NK would give a hoot if another foreigner is charged with some crime, so how is this charge communicated to the outside world? Does the US State Department get notified? Or, does some other diplomatic channel get used? If so what / how? What is the actual mechanism of communication? Does somebody call someone, or does some official document get transmitted? Again, what and to whom?

It matters do You traveled alone or with partners. If alone Your chances are lower than 0% that anybody in US or elsewhere will be informed about Your status. The secrecy of the trials is one NK's laws pillar. In case of death penalty Your embassy would be informed after execution.

4. Now I've been in custody for a while (weeks / months) and the NK government decides to send me to "court" to be tried for my crimes. Clearly the NK government wants these things to be a spectacle, so how does the outside world get notified of my pending trial...or do they? Again, what is the official mechanism which communicates all these events to the outside world?

It's quite sad but there is no mechanism for that. In North Korea You are under NK law.
They dont have the duty to inform about trials and trials details.

5. After being incarcerated (and presumably interrogated, tortured and treated harshly) I fall ill...in a coma even. The NK government decides to release me after some kind of political pressure (probably never learn how this part happens), but I'm not ambulatory. In other words, I need to leave via medivac. How does this action take place?

Really dont know. Maybe US will ask Chinese or Russians to provide transport to South Korea.


As shino said the case of Otto W. should teach everybody a lesson.
There are places to go and things to do, but some are not.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Here's another fellow that was released shortly after Otto. A Canadian pastor. Sweden played a large role in talks.

www.ctvnews.ca...

While Canada lacks an embassy in North Korea, Sweden has maintained one in Pyongyang since 1975. Sweden acts as the "protective power" for Canada and other countries, meaning it can provide different services including consular responsibility for Canadian citizens.
Swedish Foreign Affairs Minister Margot Wallstrom tweeted that she was glad Sweden could assist with the effort to free Lim.

This article describes some of what he went through in his time there

www.cbc.ca...

And this article is about how Canada got this guy back here.
www.cbc.ca...

Awful awful country, NK is...

I'd guess the alark would be raised when somebody back home who knows you're out there and hasnt heard from you after youre meant to return home contacts the state department who in turn contact the American embassy in Seoul and try to establish some line of communication with the north. When you've been tortured and beaten enough to be released they probably negotiate some form of handover at the DMZ, wheel you out and quickly run back before they're allowed to realise there's breathable air outside of Kim's backwards little fiefdom.

I would imagine a lot of info gets out through spies, wouldn't be surprised if some of these westerners who get locked up are spys.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

North Korea does have diplomats and state officials in the US on occasion, but also with the UK, EU, Asia, South Americas; they have embassies in the UK and Europe and all over asia.

North Korea do have official lines of communications with most state governments, so that is how those things are communicated and handled.

There is a conference room on the DMZ where meetings can be held with representatives of North Korea.

Perhaps this is one way negotiation is made.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You're looking for a conspiracy on the US side that somehow negates the unfavorable press geared toward the NK regime. All I can say about that is that it is all accurate unfavorable press.

The reality is, that, entrance to NK as a tourist will only be granted (irrespective of travel embargos) if you can somehow show NK in a positive light and/or you benefit their economy or people. But.....if you could secure all of that (you cant, but if you could) and you were to be party to even the smallest infraction, your life is over whether anyone gets told about you or not.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Here is a 'tourist agency' organizing tours in North Korea : KISTC
Also interesting : Explore DPRK

And here is the recent account of Serbian tourists who went there :
'They joke about Bush' : Serbian tourists debunk myths about North Korea

I once went to a country that is officially registered as an Islamic Republic - the Maldives, there are thing tourists are clearly warned about that could send you in jail. If you swim from the island where your hotel is located to the next island inhabitted by the local and they see you in a 'undecent' swim outfit, they will catch you as well ... If you plan to break the law, prepare to assume the consequence.