U.S. Debt Tops $20T

a reply to: rnaa

Interesting info, thanks.
I'll think it over awhile, pretty deep stuff!

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: muzzleflash

Sorry. But hey, you like working all the time because it makes you a 'man' right?

Sounds like you're speaking directly to my *ahem* privilege.

Hmmmm, now I'm finally starting to understand how this adds up.

You (the privileged class - male chauvinists) get to work all the time and pay taxes to the overlords so they can waste all of it on mostly frivolous or mindless stuff.

The Antifa SJW's are forced to sit at home all day and play on the computer, eating welfare checks or mom n dad's paychecks. No wonder they are pissed! They want to work endless hours at painful dangerous jobs and deal with crap all day too! It's so unfair.

If only good jobs would just come to them too.
YES, you are far too privileged Good Sir!!!
Life just aint fair.

a reply to: JinMI

And that's exactly why they want socialism.
They want a job too!

But it's gotta pay 100,000$ + per year and we can all drive BMW's and have overpriced lattes and eat organic tofu and be able to afford to wallpaper Hillary's face in our bedrooms and get unlimited data on our new 1000$ iphones after installing our new bidets in the bathrooms!

Ahhhh... we can all be a Disney Princess one day!

AS long as U.S. Treasury Bonds are the most secure investments in the world, the debt simply doesn't mean much. Everyone from the average guy down the hall to entire counties are happy to continue investing in the solid return on investment.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: rickymouse

THE COST OF ITS HEALTHCARE?

Get real rickymouse! The US government spends a great deal more on devising, developing acquiring, and distributing methods of ending life, than it ever does on saving it!

Naw, they let the Pharma and chemical companies create and sell toxic chemistry especially chemistry that settles or makes us unable to think intelligently. Then they promote it as safe and life extending or to treat symptoms. They also push foods that do the same thing. Another thing they do is grab one good chemistry out of a food and promote it while it eats the tails off of male sperm cells when you lack enzymes to break it down. SURE it will make you smarter, high in a special oil.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: JinMI

So, over two thirds of our "debt" is little more than an accounting measure? Another bogeyman?

Thanks, carry on.

It's a little more complicated than that. Debt is the mechanism through which the dollar (and most currencies around the world for that matter) maintain value. We always talk about the national debt, but that debt is actually what keeps our money stable. Paying off the debt, or even paying it down would be catastrophic. By buying debt, others are backing the value of our dollar, we do the same in reverse by buying others debt with our dollars as well.

If the national debt were to vanish, so to would any backing the dollar has.

The responsible thing to do with the debt is to continue to grow it, and more importantly to maintain the political will to handle it responsibly and pay the interest.

If you're seriously interested in the ridiculousness of debt hysteria, we should look at the concept of a debt ceiling in the first place. The United States is the only country on Earth that even has the concept of a debt ceiling and it comes entirely from a failure of Congress during WW1. It's an antiquated budget practice that we should abandon. Oddly enough, if we were to abandon the debt ceiling, it would likely significantly reduce new spending, because all spending would have to be approved by Congress on a case by case basis, rather than now which is effectively a big group of block grants that get mass approved and then sent out.

We're so screwed... While we all argue about the president and his ice cream choices the globalist elites continue their march towards a one world currency and dominance. When the dollar implodes the masses will beg for more security followed by fewer freedoms.

originally posted by: usernameconspiracy
AS long as U.S. Treasury Bonds are the most secure investments in the world, the debt simply doesn't mean much. Everyone from the average guy down the hall to entire counties are happy to continue investing in the solid return on investment.

Very true.

The willingness to hold US debt is an indication of the continued strength of the US economy.

a reply to: JinMI

So lets raise the debt limit...Yahoo!!!

Let's spend $600 Billion a year on a military that is probably 3 to 5 times the size of the next largest military in the world...
military spending

compared to the rest of the world

Makes great sense.

Because it doesn't matter. And it won't matter until people start taking something else for their barrel of oil. As long as Saudia Arabia and others (China may be breaking away) trade for USD, Uncle Sugar will never have to pay that bill.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: JinMI

So lets raise the debt limit...Yahoo!!!

Debt limit is a nonsense concept. The whole thing comes from a failure of Congress (or perhaps a failure of our Constitution) in WW1.

What happened, was that prior to WW1 Congress would have to itemize every expendature the government made and approve or deny each on an individual basis. WW1 took so many resources though, that it became impossible for Congress to do this, even when they devoted 100% of their time to it.

The solution was to authorize spending in chunks, which was the debt ceiling. So each department is now budgeted money, and allowed to do with it whatever they want.

It's a problem that no other country has, and one that we shouldn't have either.

It would be a "simple" matter to remove the debt ceiling and make Congress authorize every departments budget individually. Or better yet, approve all spending, that would use up enough of their time that they wouldn't be able to write laws authorizing much new spending. It would also remove a lot of partisian bickering, because outside of a couple deficit hawks, most would want to write spending laws for their districts.

if only people got mad at this instead of pewdiepie saying the n word

a reply to: rickymouse

What the devil are you talking about rickymouse?

The US government spends more on ways and means of murdering people, than it EVER has on the healthcare of its citizens.

War spending = $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion approximately.

That dwarfs every other thing the US government does with its money, by many, many times. So whatever the hell you were talking about, why don't you try justifying that total clusterbang of a situation?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: rickymouse

What the devil are you talking about rickymouse?

The US government spends more on ways and means of murdering people, than it EVER has on the healthcare of its citizens.

War spending = $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion approximately.

That dwarfs every other thing the US government does with its money, by many, many times. So whatever the hell you were talking about, why don't you try justifying that total clusterbang of a situation?

Read this article. Now remember, healthcare of soldiers is not included in this. www.cms.gov...

And those figures are just medicaid and medicare, not people's deductibles, not government employees healthcare costs. The two figures in the medicare/medicaid almost cost a trillion, 580 plus 416 billion come to over a trillion, add to that the cost of Obamacare. Add to that the cost of everyone's insurance premiums by employers that are tax decuctible meaning the government does not get a percent of that money going to employees.

Now if you really want to get depressed, look at the total cost of all healthcare in this country. Read the first two paragraphs of this article, there is more lower down on the subject. en.wikipedia.org...

Our military war spending is less than government paid healthcare benefits now. Remember, that military spending includes some healthcare costs.

I know we spend way to much money on Military, but in the world we live in, full of power hungry people who want to take over, we need military. I wish it was not so, if we got rid of all the war mongers and power crazed people we could live in peace. That peace has not existed in a very long time, people always have been warring. I am not in approval of war, just stating it is the way it is.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: rickymouse

What the devil are you talking about rickymouse?

The US government spends more on ways and means of murdering people, than it EVER has on the healthcare of its citizens.

War spending = $1 trillion to $1.5 trillion approximately.

That dwarfs every other thing the US government does with its money, by many, many times. So whatever the hell you were talking about, why don't you try justifying that total clusterbang of a situation?

Did you just say Dwarf?

a reply to: rickymouse

rickymouse,

First of all, America is home to the primary purchasers of chaos in the entire world. It funds terrorism globally, which it then uses to excuse over inflated military budgets. Its also worth pointing out, that we are not even dealing with the unknown and unknowable amount, that is spent on intelligence agency activities and dark military projects, operations, and so on, the so called "black budget".

If America feels it needs the amount of military spending it currently has, the reason is that its notaries and high fliers are literally buying the fear which keeps people from questioning the direction that spending is taking, and prevents anyone from properly investigating the cost of the intelligence agencies operations, which is ironic, since they pose a greater threat to your liberty than any of the proxy armies that other branches of your government, as well as private individuals and industry leaders, pay for by the back door.

So no, regardless of the published figures, which do not include the ACTUAL spending on all aspects of defence and security, the simple fact is that your country does NOT spend more on healthcare than it does on war. Not at all. Another point I would make, is that it only spends so much on healthcare, because the morally retarded bastards running the place are still trying to run hospitals like businesses, not public services. The provision of healthcare is not supposed to be a business, and those involved in it are not supposed to occupy a special place in the social strata. They are supposed to do what they do for purely humanitarian reasons, and be happy to live normal, not high flying lives as a result.

The evidence is clear that something is amiss in your spending on healthcare, but not in the way you think.

Let me put it to you this way. If everyone in your country could afford the insurance (which should not be necessary to function a health service, but thats by the by as far as this example goes), even at the present cost level, the cost of treatment would still be obscenely high, and not be justified by the quality of health outcomes for those covered by any of the healthcare plans in existence. Simply put, the quality of the care provided, is not relative to its cost.

This means that the cost of performing individual procedures, providing drugs, to any one person is not only far too high in and of itself, but has not resulted in better outcomes, despite the cost of the care involved. The ONLY way that can happen, is if the companies providing the care, the drugs, and so on, charge more than they have to in order to cover the cost of production, distribution, and provision of the service, drug, or equipment.

That is the ONLY manner in which it is possible for America to be paying as much as it is for its healthcare, without notable improvements in the outcomes of that care. This is like paying enough for dinner at the Ritz Carlton, but getting a Happy Meal. This is not the fault of any of the defenceless people that are often blamed for the care quality crisis in your country, nor persons with officially sanctioned entitlements, nor any other commonly referred to thing, save for this:

The people who decide what things cost, are criminally greedy, and do not care what damage they do to their country or their countrymen, in order that they, the insurers, the medical supply companies, the drug manufacturers, continue to make obscene profits from the suffering of others, literally putting people over a barrel in order to extract from them money they have not got, which forces them to get loans, which puts them in debt to other big, often multinational firms, in a big corporate circle jerk, which will kill a patient through stress just as easily as through the cancer, the heart disease, the kidney sickness, they were getting treated in the first place.

This is not only impossible to justify, because it is evil in the extreme and utterly objectionable, but easily remedied. The remedy however, is unpopular, because it is not at all a capitalist solution.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: rickymouse

rickymouse,

First of all, America is home to the primary purchasers of chaos in the entire world. It funds terrorism globally, which it then uses to excuse over inflated military budgets. Its also worth pointing out, that we are not even dealing with the unknown and unknowable amount, that is spent on intelligence agency activities and dark military projects, operations, and so on, the so called "black budget".

If America feels it needs the amount of military spending it currently has, the reason is that its notaries and high fliers are literally buying the fear which keeps people from questioning the direction that spending is taking, and prevents anyone from properly investigating the cost of the intelligence agencies operations, which is ironic, since they pose a greater threat to your liberty than any of the proxy armies that other branches of your government, as well as private individuals and industry leaders, pay for by the back door.

So no, regardless of the published figures, which do not include the ACTUAL spending on all aspects of defence and security, the simple fact is that your country does NOT spend more on healthcare than it does on war. Not at all. Another point I would make, is that it only spends so much on healthcare, because the morally retarded bastards running the place are still trying to run hospitals like businesses, not public services. The provision of healthcare is not supposed to be a business, and those involved in it are not supposed to occupy a special place in the social strata. They are supposed to do what they do for purely humanitarian reasons, and be happy to live normal, not high flying lives as a result.

The evidence is clear that something is amiss in your spending on healthcare, but not in the way you think.

Let me put it to you this way. If everyone in your country could afford the insurance (which should not be necessary to function a health service, but thats by the by as far as this example goes), even at the present cost level, the cost of treatment would still be obscenely high, and not be justified by the quality of health outcomes for those covered by any of the healthcare plans in existence. Simply put, the quality of the care provided, is not relative to its cost.

This means that the cost of performing individual procedures, providing drugs, to any one person is not only far too high in and of itself, but has not resulted in better outcomes, despite the cost of the care involved. The ONLY way that can happen, is if the companies providing the care, the drugs, and so on, charge more than they have to in order to cover the cost of production, distribution, and provision of the service, drug, or equipment.

That is the ONLY manner in which it is possible for America to be paying as much as it is for its healthcare, without notable improvements in the outcomes of that care. This is like paying enough for dinner at the Ritz Carlton, but getting a Happy Meal. This is not the fault of any of the defenceless people that are often blamed for the care quality crisis in your country, nor persons with officially sanctioned entitlements, nor any other commonly referred to thing, save for this:

The people who decide what things cost, are criminally greedy, and do not care what damage they do to their country or their countrymen, in order that they, the insurers, the medical supply companies, the drug manufacturers, continue to make obscene profits from the suffering of others, literally putting people over a barrel in order to extract from them money they have not got, which forces them to get loans, which puts them in debt to other big, often multinational firms, in a big corporate circle jerk, which will kill a patient through stress just as easily as through the cancer, the heart disease, the kidney sickness, they were getting treated in the first place.

This is not only impossible to justify, because it is evil in the extreme and utterly objectionable, but easily remedied. The remedy however, is unpopular, because it is not at all a capitalist solution.

I by no means am trying to justify the actions of our government in starting conflicts around the world and I do not support the Warmongers we have here. What you are saying is mostly true. I know the figures on military spending are much higher than the figures show too, they are hiding more of the war expenses than officially exists on the books. But the fact is that we do need to have a strong military in the reality we live in. Europe actually benefits by it too.

The people who run things are from Europe, they often called the shots in the past.

The total spent on healthcare from all sources is way out of line here, I can see it in the society locally. Multiply that by all the communities in the country and you can see the huge increases in healthcare. Much of that is caused by improper food chemistry.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
a reply to: JinMI

So lets raise the debt limit...Yahoo!!!

Debt limit is a nonsense concept. The whole thing comes from a failure of Congress (or perhaps a failure of our Constitution) in WW1.

What happened, was that prior to WW1 Congress would have to itemize every expendature the government made and approve or deny each on an individual basis. WW1 took so many resources though, that it became impossible for Congress to do this, even when they devoted 100% of their time to it.

The solution was to authorize spending in chunks, which was the debt ceiling. So each department is now budgeted money, and allowed to do with it whatever they want.

It's a problem that no other country has, and one that we shouldn't have either.

It would be a "simple" matter to remove the debt ceiling and make Congress authorize every departments budget individually. Or better yet, approve all spending, that would use up enough of their time that they wouldn't be able to write laws authorizing much new spending. It would also remove a lot of partisian bickering, because outside of a couple deficit hawks, most would want to write spending laws for their districts.

To further that truth, the debt ceiling being raised was never even a debate until 2008. Before that, it was simply raised when needed, and often times repeatedly throughout the year. Now this piece of nonsense is simply a bargaining chip to be wielded for leverage because people think it's a big important matter, when in reality, it isn't.

a reply to: usernameconspiracy

I remember it being debated a few times during the Bush Presidency. Democrats were trying to use it as a way to defund the Iraq war. It was used against Bill Clinton too. At the end of the day though, everyone realized that the only responsible thing to do was to increase it. It's only been relatively recently where we've had a contingent in government who seriously believe we shouldn't increase it, and their unwillingness to commit to existing debt has resulted in credit hits to the country, not because of the amount of debt, but because we act irresponsibly towards funding it.