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links between secret societies

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posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 08:48 PM
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Ok Ill see your satanist and raise you two masonsmason1
mason2

in as much as all 3 links were found on google they must be equally
dependable right.

as a side note i hav probably known as many "Satanists" who didn't fit
your description as I have Christians that did/do




posted on Feb, 17 2005 @ 10:59 PM
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"I was not contemplating whether or not to kill you. I was merely considering how it should be done, for these things must be handled delicately."
From Wizard of Oz, by the Wicked Witch

Yeah, a member of the Illuminati wrote that... L. Frank Baum, a Theosophist. A group whose ideas inspired Hitler. They tend not to mention it, though.



posted on Feb, 18 2005 @ 05:29 AM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf


as a side note i hav probably known as many "Satanists" who didn't fit
your description as I have Christians that did/do




I will ask you again as your logic seems to have flown out of the window.
Do you dispute the fact that Satanism's primary concern is service to self?



posted on Feb, 18 2005 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by akilles
L. Frank Baum, a Theosophist. A group whose ideas inspired Hitler. They tend not to mention it, though.

Even those connections are not so clear cut as you are implying. Blatvaskys theosophy and the Thule Society were only tangentally related, and Hitler at least outlawed Thule once he had the ability to do so.

And since when are theosophists members of the illuminati anyway?



posted on Feb, 18 2005 @ 12:10 PM
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I will ask you again as your logic seems to have flown out of the window.
Do you dispute the fact that Satanism's primary concern is service to self?


And I will ask again do you know this fact of yourself or was it told you by others?

what I am disputing is your FACT that it is the primary concern of ALL who follow the belief. Just like being a self center, arrogent, egotistical,
self important, holier than thou,pushy Git , is not the primary concern of all
christians.



posted on Feb, 18 2005 @ 05:25 PM
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It would be imperative for someone seeking power to GO TO GREAT LENGTHS to not come across as only caring about themselves.

These people are called politicians on a day to day basis.

In fact, you would probably join a fraternal organization to 'prove' you are not entirely self-centered.

The connection between Thule and Theosophy's beliefs is no stretch. The beliefs are common between them, belief in 'Aryans' (ring a bell).

Hitler disbanded all the groups that got him into power (come on, even the Nazi party didn't start as a planned dictatorship *officially*). I remember when I thought the Nazis were the only occult obsessed European Elite, aah the good ole days.



posted on Feb, 18 2005 @ 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
Do you guys really think the Royalty of Europe consider you their equals, their brethren, (I ask because of the prominent role in Freemasonry many have had)?


I don't believe for a minute that they consider us thier equals in fact I believe no matter what avenue one takes in this life, he is going to be rode hard and put up wet so to speak. No matter which way you turn the deck is stacked against you. I don't believe there are any good deals in this life except laying down in that cold clay and taking a real rest one fine day. The dance may be elegant and the scene beautiful but the price of the fiddler will be high.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 12:00 PM
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Here's a little gem lifted from Foucaults Pendulum...chapter 53...(ho-hum...boring conspiracy stuff, eh?)

"Unable to control destinies on earth openly because governments would resist, this mystic alliance can act only through secret societies...These, gradually created as the need for them arises, are divided into distinct groups, groups seemingly in opposition, sometimes advocating the most contradictory policies in religion, politics, economics, and literature; but they are all connected, all directed by the invisible center that hides its power as it thus seeks to move all the scepters of the earth."

_J.M.Hoene-Wronski, quoted by P.Sedir, Histoire et doctrine des Rose-Croix, Bibliotheque des Hermetistes, Paris, 1910

This is all part of the Byrd/Nazis/Synarchy/Polaris/Templars/Agarttha/bottomless pit of intrigue.

googling can be such a treat...



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by akilles


The connection between Thule and Theosophy's beliefs is no stretch. The beliefs are common between them, belief in 'Aryans' (ring a bell).


So you're saying that, because both the members of the Nazi Party and the members of the Theosophical Society believed in Aryans, then they're the same thing? Because if that's what you mean, then using the same logic, I could say that the New York Yankees and the Girl Scouts of America are the same thing because they both believe in Chinese people.


I remember when I thought the Nazis were the only occult obsessed European Elite, aah the good ole days.


Which shows you know practically nothing about the Nazis. The Nazis were first and foremost a group of conspiracy theorists, and many of the ideas you yourself regurgitate day after day on ATS comes directly from the Nazis, whether you know it or not. They practically invented modern anti-Illuminati, anti-Semitic, anti-Mason conspiracy theory.

The Nazis ideology was certainly not occultic; on the contrary, it was standard right wing lunacy, and their beliefs can be read in all of their official documents. Of course, you can't admit any of this because it goes against your programming.

It looks like you've been trained well by Freemasonry Watch.

[edit on 20-2-2005 by Masonic Light]



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 02:35 PM
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ML:

I agree with most of your comments. However, Hitler takes a bad wrap. In the end, he got fanatical, but at the beginning he had excellent intentions, as he saw the poison within the Government and was a pure Nationalist. He wanted to rid Parliament of the nominds that were occupying it, and overthrow the Jewish control of the media, not much different than some CT buff's today. In the end, he stepped over the line. However, not sure how much he was pushed by the upper echelons, if at all.

And the ideas within Nazism (some) are fanatical and immoral as well. However, for people who's families lived through that time, our Nazi grandfathers, who survived, were tools just like Americans are in Iraq and elsewhere. I really wish people would make damn certain that, when they refer to a Country, they refer to two entities occupying it: the hacks (the people) and the Government. Germany has had to endure so much crap because of Hitler. He was also a most excellent Propaganda artists, something to be admired, however not practiced. Hitler's rise from poor production worker, to jail to leader is remarkable, kinda like Bush.

Oh and, ML, your ananlogy breaks down: it is vague. Further, Aryan belief is obviously a fairly heavy ideology, which spawns many practical, political actions of morally questionable essence. I liked Hitler for wanting a pure German race, but he just took it to extremes. He should have closed the border like Poland did and voila! No black Helga's


[edit on 20-2-2005 by freudling]



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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i don't think that becoming a free mason is the answer to power all you have to do is either become rich or ummmmmm......yeah become RICH!!!



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by freudling
ML:

I agree with most of your comments. However, Hitler takes a bad wrap. In the end, he got fanatical, but at the beginning he had excellent intentions, as he saw the poison within the Government and was a pure Nationalist. He wanted to rid Parliament of the nominds that were occupying it, and overthrow the Jewish control of the media, not much different than some CT buff's today. In the end, he stepped over the line. However, not sure how much he was pushed by the upper echelons, if at all.

And the ideas within Nazism (some) are fanatical and immoral as well. However, for people who's families lived through that time, our Nazi grandfathers, who survived, were tools just like Americans are in Iraq and elsewhere. I really wish people would make damn certain that, when they refer to a Country, they refer to two entities occupying it: the hacks (the people) and the Government. Germany has had to endure so much crap because of Hitler. He was also a most excellent Propaganda artists, something to be admired, however not practiced. Hitler's rise from poor production worker, to jail to leader is remarkable, kinda like Bush.

Oh and, ML, your ananlogy breaks down: it is vague. Further, Aryan belief is obviously a fairly heavy ideology, which spawns many practical, political actions of morally questionable essence. I liked Hitler for wanting a pure German race, but he just took it to extremes. He should have closed the border like Poland did and voila! No black Helga's



Freudling: I agree with ML. You know nothing about Hitler/ Naziism.



posted on Feb, 20 2005 @ 08:17 PM
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In a lot of ways, Hitlers' humble beginning reminds me of Napoleon...a meteoric rise from obscurity to a place within the annals of history amongst the cruelest tyrants the world has known.

In some ways, greenmansmind touches truth, although as a Dutchman, it is difficult for me to praise him or the Nazi party. I can attest to the reception the German army got in Holland...they were praised for their wonderful songs as they marched into the towns and villages in Holland. The footsoldiers, for the most part, were good men, courteous and kind.

But that was early in the war, before things began to wear thin with the constant pressure of the underground resistance. Seeing townsfolk lined against the wall...men, women and children, picked on an alphabetical system for the firing squads, as reprisals, did make problems in relationships.
The bullet holes in the walls of the church in the main square of Deventer, my hometown, are permanent testament to the cruelty of the officers.

But, I digress...I suppose what I intend to carry across is that the common soldiers weren't so miserable at all...but they had to follow orders (just like the guards at the detention centers the Americans set up for supposed terrorists).

Disgusting what governments force their soldiers to do...isn't it?

One more thing about the nazis...there are still those among us who remember the entire war. These people know exactly what that bunch of vermin were all about.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by freudling
ML:

I agree with most of your comments. However, Hitler takes a bad wrap. In the end, he got fanatical, but at the beginning he had excellent intentions, as he saw the poison within the Government and was a pure Nationalist.



That's simply not true.
Long before Hitler became Chancellor, he wrote how he would control people through deceit. Hitler had a plan. It wasn't a plan that he created once he managed to get into power. It was a plan that he had formulated long before.
The problem is that most of the world totally ignored his written words - they treated them as if they never existed. It is often stated that he started out as a good guy, simply because there was no immediate evidence of his plan causing harm. People believe that he only became evil once he started the Holocaust or invaded other nations.
If you read Mein Kampf, you can clearly see that this was part of Hitler's plan all along.

There was no "innocent" Hitler. He started formulating his politics at least a couple of decades before the 40s.
Of course he had to look innocent to his people and the rest of the world when he started out as he needed to start building a power base, and this he managed to pull off for some time. But then, for a man who can convince his countrymen to destroy whole races of other human beings and lead them into a war against the rest of the world, looking innocent is not going to be the hardest piece of propaganda to pull off.

Hitler was a master of propaganda. For the first few years of his reign, he managed to get that propaganda swallowed by the whole world.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by stalkingwolf
what I am disputing is your FACT that it is the primary concern of ALL who follow the belief.



It is the primary concern of anyone who calls himself a Satanist and uses the term as it is generally accepted. Try reading accepted Satanic literature and you will find that it is the one common, underlying theme that all have in common. There is no contention there. Read any accredited literature that claims Satanism as a basis and it all espouses service to self. It's quite possible that one of the side effects of service to self may even make other people happy but the root is the same nonetheless.

If somebody doesn't believe in service to self as their primary concern they aren't a Satanist in the accepted usage of the word. It's as simple as that. Of course, anyone can call themself anything, but there has to be a generally accepted basis that corresponds to the majority of others also using that name - or one to be accepted as that which he claims to be he has to conform to or resemble the accepted form of that which he claims to be . If I call myself a Christian yet don't believe in Christ or the New Testament, would you say that I'm a Christian too? Or if I say that I'm a Muslim, yet I don't believe in Mohammed or the Koran? You may say that I have the freedom to call myself what I want and that is my right, but the fact is that I would be of so little resemblance to the accepted usages of those words, I would be seen as a fraud.

Without service to self, the worshipper is a Satanist in name only and may as well tag himself as anything. It's like saying I'm a soccer player when I've only ever played rugby because both are sports. They may both fit under the general term "sports" but everyone recognises that rugby is nothing like soccer. Soccer has rules that are totally different to rugby - those rules are part of the reason why the games are so different.
Tell everyone that rugby is soccer and you're generally regarded as a bull#ter.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 12:15 PM
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NEWS FLASH: The inner circle of the Nazi Party (the higher ups) were into the Occult!

Masonic Light is only defending his own occultic ass by denying it.

And I love how you said I was following Nazi conspiracy theory, thats great, especially when you didn't give one valid example.

You all say I am anti-Masonic, maybe that is just easiest for you to believe, but I am on this forum to learn, and you guys teach me a lot about deception, and diverting attention. Thanks!



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 12:41 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
The connection between Thule and Theosophy's beliefs is no stretch. The beliefs are common between them, belief in 'Aryans' (ring a bell).

This demonstrates that there is no connection between theosophy the Thule. They used aryan in moderately different ways, but, more importantly, the idea of an 'aryan race' and culture was something in the culture at the time, not only shared between points on a conspiracy web. IOW, lots of people beleived in the aryans, that doesn't require theosophic or thule connections.


Hitler disbanded all the groups that got him into power

He disbanded most secret socieites because their secrecy was a threat to his rule. He didn't want anyone meeting in private and discussing anything, he wanted a totalitarian dictatorship, he wanted the Open society to be replaced with a concentration camp society, so to speak. How does that make Thule part of an evil theosophistic masonic illuminati conpsiracy?

remember when I thought the Nazis were the only occult obsessed European Elite

Perhaps one day you will look back on when you erroneously thought that only the nazis and theosophy were obsessed with the aryans.
Also, is it correct to describe the nazis as an elite group? I mean, surely, any group that comes to power is going to have members of the elite in it, as a matter of course. But the Nazis? The SA certainly weren't the elite, and most nazi party planks seem moderately intended to appeal to the disenfranchised, the non elite. Hitler wasn't a member of the elite either.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 12:43 PM
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You don't think that the weirdness going on with Himmler and the later stages of the SS demonstrate that there was an interest in the occult with members of the nazi party? Or that the 'pan-germanic' revivial was, in a sense, occultic (as long as one considers 'pagan' equivalent to occult')?



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by akilles
NEWS FLASH: The inner circle of the Nazi Party (the higher ups) were into the Occult!


Thanks for the tip.


Masonic Light is only defending his own occultic ass by denying it.


How so? Are you now implying that ML is a Nazi? Have you no scruples at all?


And I love how you said I was following Nazi conspiracy theory, thats great, especially when you didn't give one valid example.


I think the operative term was "conspiracy theory".


You all say I am anti-Masonic


Yup.


...maybe that is just easiest for you to believe


Yeah, because we read your posts!


...but I am on this forum to learn


Could have fooled me.


and you guys teach me a lot about deception, and diverting attention


I don't see how, but whatever guy.


Thanks!


My pleasure.



posted on Feb, 21 2005 @ 11:51 PM
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Sebatwerk:

You keep showing your colors: you are a pushy, arrogant poster. Why do I know nothing of Hitler? No, I know nothing. Only my parents are from there. Only their parents were indoctrinated into Hitler's youth camps. I live in Europe. I have read Hitler's early Manuscripts. I know nothing! You know about Hitler! You Armchair critic. At least I have had intimate contact with people who lived through it, not just read books about it. My great uncle was an SS, looking at his picture right now. But again, I know nothing!



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