16 years later,9 unanswered questions.

a reply to: mike dangerously

Long article explains how CIA F**ked everything up do to turf battles, jealousy and misguided plan to recruit
Al Quada operative to spy on organization

pjmedia.com...

a reply to: neutronflux

What's even more sickening is the extremely high likelihood that wood et al are such greedy sick f***s that they willingly and happily double dipped spreading FUD and knowingly false info at the behest of the actual perpetrators as well as defrauding and preying upon hurting individuals trying to find an explanation for a tragedy so big it literally ripped their psyche and ability to feel safe away from them.....

Meanwhile REAL CONSPIRACIES and UNANSWERED QUESTIONS don't get the attention, investigation, and ultimately REAL ANSWERS we all deserve!

They're sick and the day we're actually rewarded for hunting torturing and brutally killing them for their crimes will be the day any semblance of faith i once had in the f***ing travesty of a mockery that is the term civilization will START to return... Not one F***ing day sooner, and exactly no points or credit given for anything less than a full on genocide against the conspirators and their enablers will do!

Make no mistake, there's REAL CONSPIRACIES REAL EVIDENCE and very real trails to be followed if socalled conspiracy theorists and society at large start asking the right questions of the right people and absolutely making it clear that anything less than complete and total honesty, full disclosure, and willingly giving up the guilty who won't confess themselves MIGHT save their children and everyone they love being killed brutally before their eyes...

I was just a dumb 18 year old kid that morning completely exhausted from working 120 hour weeks since June of that year between my day jobs and my side work sitting at my desk in numb horror watching cnn on every tv on the tech support call center floor and actually taking multiple urgent calls from people in the wtc complex as it was burning who were trying to still do their jobs...

(Even worse, those 120 hour weeks... Yeah, they were due to multiple very rush server room wiring fire control and etc buildouts with absolutely die in the dirt massive contract penalties for anything that didn't finish by midnight 09/05/11 to midnight 09/05/12... And at my day job working two plus tiers above my nominal tech level because everyone with certain certs etc had been pulled into100+ hours a week death marches to get stuff operational around offsite data storage and etc for our 6 biggest clients simultaneously again with die in the dirt we own you if you f*** us on this date specific contract riders...!)

After lunch the calls from inside the NOW collapsed buildings had obviously stopped but call volume was like nothing seen before or after that day on the sales line for PGP security software and etc etc, a full 80% of the calls coming from very "arab sounding" paranoid individuals in a great rush to buy this s*** and I'll take the download version don't f***ing bother sending the disk but i want guarantees on how fast the download will go.....

Everyone with any real authority etc is in very high level conference calls etc with frantic clients and corporate as the call floor erupts into everyone recording calls however they can and several of us on the phone with guys out of the salt lake fbi field office (maybe one day I'll tell y'all how THAT went...)

Me and another guy, both very rapidly losing faith in government ability or even desire to actually chase down what should've been very high priority suspicious behavior, called the play and outright refused to sell, help get existing copies working or in any way support a huge majority of the product lines we nominally sold/supported for a living including voluntarily using our break time and very minimal downtime between incoming calls to dial up literally every single person who purchased those products after 8 am eastern standard time and letting them know we would be crediting back their cards and that their product key received in the purchase e-mail was being rescinded / the software disks would not be being sent to them because their order has been retroactively cancelled and tech support of any kind was going to be unavailable for the time being...

Mind you, an entire call center full 9f people who got paid almost entirely based on sales commissions and flat rate or per minute compensation for support calls. We knowingly subjected ourselves to a precipitous pay cut by doing what we did, personally i saw a real 25% drop in actual take home pay... and this was about 15% less than i fully expected to lose! (if you maintained customer satisfaction and other call quality metrics of course, otherwise you just got $8.50/hr base rate)

Over 120 techs and not a single one even hesitated to agree to this plan for an instant even though it represented a huge financial hit many of them couldn't afford.... That's the truly anger rage and tears of frustration and sheer desperation inducing part of 9/11 and it's aftermath for me... So many people that day and in the days after just smiled and shouldered staggering burdens voluntarily and without anyone having to ask as a way of not only showing solidarity with the victims but also in a mostly unspoken but very very crucial show of faith in the social contract, the government, banks, corporate America, and finally the spies spooks enforcers beat cops commandoes and etc we allow to have and use with no real oversight extraordinarily easy to abuse powers!

We collectively did everything we could to make sure society ran smoothly to free up resources etc for what we stupidly assumed would be the most thorough, complete, far reaching, inexorable, and far reaching investigation man hunts trials executions and so on backed by a united and resolute press public government and the entire American political apparatus backed by lightning military campaigns and the American economic juggernaut...

Instead, in a complete betrayal of the American public, the social contract, and the very values our nation was founded upon... Asking us to sacrifice oh so much more than we already had voluntarily !!!(which was already far more than they needed or had any right to ask for... Always remember that!)

In a very real way i believe that barring some pretty radical far reaching drastic and timely changes to our economy ethics government business military and or educational landscapes coming out of the blue and with enough backing to steamroll institutional inertia and other resistance almost entirely..... 9/11 will be taught as the beginning of the end of the great American experiment/experience to children in history class 30 or 50 years from now....

(Very unlikely, especially since even a radical and absolutely perfect new direction in just one category will, if anything, actually kick the slow motion destruction destabilization and disenfranchisement already tearing society apart piece by piece with every high and low tide cycle into a screaming pounding nonstop train of super destructive rogue waves! Truthfully we genuinely need 2 almost perfect category revamps and at least 3 more categories where the bare bones of reforms have started and, more importantly, the wisdom to across the board be outright ignoring and refusing to allow legal or financial repercussions to be even threatened for ignoring etc the stupid laws we haven't got around to fixing yet!)

I would like for us at ATS, to evaluate this entire call, not just the part before she hangs up the phone.


I've become a bit of an expert at listening to people speak on the phone having been in a phone-consultation business as a corporate recruiter for over 30 years.

I listen for things like cadence, anxiety and fear, and the context and level of authenticity, etc., etc.

Her last call which her husband picked up that one was from a cell phone, which thoroughly surprised and shocked him when he checked the caller ID and noted that the call had come from her cellphone and he said to himself - her cell phone?!

Regardless of what type of phone she was calling him from, what do you hear, contextually and in terms of the nuance?

Also, is it believable or conceivable, as an earlier poster contended, that the whisper before the phone was hung up (with a rattle in the cradle - not a cellphone) was in fact not her (not her voice) and had either been added or was some sort of leftover ghost from a prior recording that was re-recorded over top ie: not her at all?

Edit: I'm aware of how heart wrenching this is, but she herself may have tried to embed a message into it, so that there would be a record, just in case.

I think it honors not demeans her memory to take a close look at this, along with the whole caller record, as Elias Davidson did in his book


Hijacking America's Mind on 9/11: Counterfeiting Evidence

originally posted by: CajunMetal

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: CajunMetal

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: CajunMetal

Are you saying tape answering machines were not being sold in 2001. Are you saying there was not a good portion of tape answering machines in use in 2001.

Sorry,

One: I bet the audio that you cite was sourced from a analog magnetic tape at some point.

Two: analog tape is unreliable. Is easily distorted, loses ability with age/repeated use, and is not reliable.

Three: And tapes and recorders are notorious for introducing noise and loss of quality with use and time.

Four: and tape answering machines had a bad habit of not removing 100 percent of the old message when recording a new message.

I totally get what you're saying, all good points. I'm just suggesting that if it was a poor tape with the qualities you cite, that one would imagine there being more noise or ghosted artifacts besides the one we're talking about.
The sounds we do hear, imo, are consistent with movement of the receiver in close proximity of the callers mouth trying to hide a hushed message from view of the alleged handler(s).

Cheers

You have no proof of that. The voice doesn't even sound like her. The sound is garbled. You do not have the original recording from the answering machine. You cannot even prove if it was something added.

And the garbled sound from the tape is evidence of a garbled sound on the tape. Has no impact on the number of people that attest to seeing the jet, recovering the wreckage, DNA evidence, radar data, recovering human remains, remains released for burial, the impact crater, buried wreckage, the large debris field scattered with remains/personal items/wreckage, and the scorched trees.

Like to start with what human remains were released to families for burial?

Proof of what? I explained what it sounded like to me.

As for the rest of your questions, those are also addressed in the videos we're talking about, you can re-watch them.

You keep saying it sounds to you like a garbled tape and not her voice. That's fine. We clearly hear different things. I just disagree and in my opinion and experience (and I'd argue most people my age) it doesn't sound like damaged tape; it sounds like what you hear on a non-cellular phone's mouthpiece when someone speaks closely with a hushed voice.
I grew up in a time when you called someone's house and they'd muffle the receiver w their hand to put you on hold, and when you'd whisper to your boyfriend or girlfriend at night into the receiver because you couldn't just walk into the other room.
That's what that sounds like as she moves the receiver around and whispers on her way to hanging up the phone.

And if we're splitting hairs: slowing down the recording could account for the change in voice to your hearing. And even if it was slowed down you can still hear the cadence of spoken words in the original. It's clearly not been slowed down enough to do anything more than isolate that portion of tape.

But neither of us knows if it's tape, damaged or otherwise. I'm sure your mind wouldn't be changed if it were proven to not be analog tape.
Based on the context surrounding 9/11 conspiracy it sounds to me that it's plausible that's what she's saying regardless.

Cheers

It must not be too credible. I have been at ATS for a over a year, research lots of crazy truth movement items, and never heard the "it's a frame" argument.

I like the long post that ignores the heart of the matter. "Its a frame" is garbled noise, with no record if it was on the original tape, with no reference to what copied recording the noise was first noticed, and it's on the internet which is notorious for fabrications. And the garbled noise still has no impact on personal accounts of recovering remains, DNA, and wreckage. Has no bearing on the radar data and the physical evidence.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

I am sorry. It's noise. The slower and cleaned up version is too low and husky to be her voice. Others swear she said "it's fake". So, I am guessing there might be at least two different fabrications floating around on the internet.

What I find interesting, the "it's a frame" references are all from YouTube clips and forum discussions.

So,

One, link to an actual written article where the it's a frame comment is referenced and cited as evidence.

Two, can you post the original recorded message to see if the noise was in the original message.

Three, can you cite the credibility of the individuals that created the YouTube clips and where the got their copy of the phone call? Credible research would list the source of the recording, and reference the chain from the original recording.

Five, the noise still has nothing to do with eyewitness accounts, radar data, physical evidence, human remains, and recovered personal remains.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Sorry, "it's a frame" has all the signs of an internet fabrication.

Unless you can cite a written article where the "whisper" is listed as actual evidence? Is it used by pilots for 9/11 Truth as evidence? As in not a post in the forum section, but an actual article on the official website.

a reply to: neutronflux

How about the Government of the United States?

That YouTube Video is from the FBI's own Zacarias Moussaoui trial evidence exhibit.



It's part of Exhibit # P200055

Summary from Flight 93 depicting: the identity of pilots and flight attendants, seat assignments of passengers, and telephone calls from the flight [Listener discretion is advised. This exhibit also includes information about the other three flights hijacked on September 11.]

www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

Do you want to stand by the "it was added" or "it wasn't her" hypothesis?

It is what it is. I can give you 3000 reasons why it wasn't brought up at Moussaoui's trial, or why it didn't make it into Philip Zelikow's final edit on the 9/11 Commission Report, but it's still there. Deal with it.

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

For years the truth movement has been telling us that what was said at the end of the recording was :

"You did great."

Example this truther video from 2008:

www.youtube.com...

( Click the link read the description.)

Now the truth movement is telling us that what she is saying is :

"It's a frame."



So Why Did You Change Your Mind.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork
a reply to: neutronflux

How about the Government of the United States?

That YouTube Video is from the FBI's own Zacarias Moussaoui trial evidence exhibit.

It's part of Exhibit # P200055

Summary from Flight 93 depicting: the identity of pilots and flight attendants, seat assignments of passengers, and telephone calls from the flight [Listener discretion is advised. This exhibit also includes information about the other three flights hijacked on September 11.]

www.vaed.uscourts.gov...

Do you want to stand by the "it was added" or "it wasn't her" hypothesis?

It is what it is. I can give you 3000 reasons why it wasn't brought up at Moussaoui's trial, or why it didn't make it into Philip Zelikow's final edit on the 9/11 Commission Report, but it's still there. Deal with it.

So what happened then, since you know best?

originally posted by: waypastvne
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

For years the truth movement has been telling us that what was said at the end of the recording was :

"You did great."

Example this truther video from 2008:

www.youtube.com...

( Click the link read the description.)

Now the truth movement is telling us that what she is saying is :

"It's a frame."



So Why Did You Change Your Mind.

That would explain the other commenter's opinion that it didnt sound like her voice.

But, no matter which of those two interpretations you hear, something out of place was said at the end of that call and now you're just playing at semantics.

a reply to: Hendrick99

That's what Philip Zelikow expected you to ask as part of the official story narrative presumption, to place the burden on me to have to produce an entire alternative narrative, to the presumed facts ie: that she was calling from a hijacked aircraft, when in truth the official story is the very farthest thing from "self evident" to begin with. In fact, any true skeptic would be equally skeptical of both perspectives, without clinging to any particular viewpoint or belief, in an honest effort to try to get to the truth of the matter as to what really happened, or did not actually occur in reality.

But if you must, read this book.

Hijacking America's Mind on 9/11: Counterfeiting Evidence

The only explanation offered in the press at the time of its release to try to explain the strange level of "calmness" with which she delivered her message on her husband's answering machine was that she at one time worked as a police officer.

Later, on another call

9:58 a.m. September 11, 2001: Passenger CeeCee Lyles Cries ‘They’re Doing It;’ Strange Sounds Follow
  
CeeCee Lyles.

CeeCee Lyles says to her husband, “Aah, it feels like the plane’s going down.” Her husband Lorne says, “What’s that?” She replies, “I think they’re going to do it. they’re forcing their way into the cockpit” (an alternate version says, “they’re getting ready to force their way into the cockpit”). A little later she screams, then says, “they’re doing it! they’re doing it! they’re doing it!” Her husband hears more screaming in the background, then he hears a “whooshing sound, a sound like wind,” then more screaming, and then the call breaks off. [Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 10/28/2001; Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 10/28/2001; Longman, 2002, pp. 180]
Entity Tags: CeeCee Lyles
Timeline Tags: Complete 911 Timeline, 9/11 Timeline
www.historycommons.org...

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

Thanks for that, but it's still noise where people cannot agree on what is said. Good job, it's a frame, it's a fake..... and it's not her voice. The good job claim? So people cannot even agree who said it.

The crash cite documentation and evidence of the Shanksville crash was also submitted at the Zacarias Moussaoui trial, no? So? is that credible, and the evidence flight 93 crashed. Is the evidence at the trial legitimate, or not.


Quote where the whisper is even cited as evidence in actual truth movement papers and articles, it hasn't made it out of the forums.

And it's still has no bearing on eyewitness accounts of crashing/crashed jets. Accounts of individuals that recovered human remains and wreckage. The physical evidence. Flight recorder data. Radar data. Etc...

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

In a round about way, you also debunked the FBI was part of the alleged 9/11 conspiracy. Why would they knowingly release what you consider "evidence" of a conspiracy if they were in on that conspiracy.

True of false? At trial, the FBI claimed they verified all calls received from the jet's on 9/11 as originating from those jets.

The FBI was not part of the conspiracy, and the evidence they released were the credible phone calls, the DNA evidence was credible, and the evidence of the crash site.

a reply to: neutronflux


What are your thoughts about the breaking into the cockpit scene..?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

At trial, the FBI claimed they verified all calls received from the jet's on 9/11 as originating from those jets.

Did they provide any supporting evidence ie: from the phone companies and carriers, or are we simply to trust and take their word for it?

Are you aware of how they handled the anthrax attack investigation?

Do the FBI ever run cover for an evil system?

Are you familiar with a program called "Able Danger"?

We owe it to the thousands of people killed that we fight for the truth to come to light. May they rest in peace.

originally posted by: AnkhMorpork

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

At trial, the FBI claimed they verified all calls received from the jet's on 9/11 as originating from those jets.

Did they provide any supporting evidence ie: from the phone companies and carriers, or are we simply to trust and take their word for it?

Are you aware of how they handled the anthrax attack investigation?

Do the FBI ever run cover for an evil system?

Are you familiar with a program called "Able Danger"?

Yes, the FBI provided phone records. And there is proof and given accounts from operators that handled calls to the individual on the ground. And it was possible in 2001 that cellphone towers would connect calls from under 10,000 foot. And many of the calls were made by the actual phones equipped in the planes, nor cell phones.

So what evidence do you have to discredit the legitimacy of the people that attest to getting calls, the operators that handled the calls, and the FBI acquired phone records?

a reply to: AnkhMorpork

You have noise on a tape that might be from previous recordings, people don't agree if they hear "Good job" "its fake" "its a frame", the context of the meaning, and don't agree on who said it.

And the noise has no bearing on personal accounts and physical evidence of crashed jets.

a reply to: neutronflux


Can you provide any cite for that re: the phone record data?

Also, where any of the cell phone calls made or received at a time when the plane(s) were above 10,000 feet?