It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why do we as Americans owe illegal immigrants anything?

page: 3
37
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 02:20 PM
link   
a reply to: Lompyt



Just like your forefathers did when they were illegal citizens and the American Indians showed them the same.

Do you know the story after that ? I do....
So if you want to compare the pilgrims to illegal aliens , you made a terrible example




posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 02:31 PM
link   
a reply to: Gryphon66

Like I mentioned , Doomed .



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 02:35 PM
link   
You don't owe them anything.

It's not a case of debt. I mean, if it's so easy for undocumented people to get food stamps and medical aid then why aren't you doing it?

Fake ID's you say???

As I see it you need documents to apply for welfare, insurance is needed for medical treatment, housing in the US is in shambles with documented citizens waiting years for a property they'd feel safe in.

How are they getting all these freebies?

Human beings, by international law have rights. Food, water, shelter and basic medical aid. So no you don't owe them anything, institutions do, since these things are rights I could argue they are owed onto themselves.

That being said, illegally obtained entrance to another nation must be dealt with. Most people try legal entry, I've said this a few times here, the only people who actively attempt illegal entry are desperate people, criminals or idiots. Most are the former.

Be humane, expect your institutions to be humane. Humanity demands it.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 02:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Gryphon66

Like I mentioned , Doomed .


Nah. Governments are corrupt and controlled by money throughout history.

In America, I still believe we can do better. We should insist that our lawmakers modernize our immigration system to the profit of our nation and our economy.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 02:57 PM
link   
Maybe you should build a time machine and go back to the 17th and 18th centuries because those are where all the good ideas are, apparently.

What does your nation owe to you? What do you owe to your nation? What does any nation owe to anyone?



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 02:57 PM
link   
a reply to: Lompyt

you can't be an illegal citizen of a country (though not a country at the time) that doesn't even have laws written to deal with immigration.

also *you're



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 02:58 PM
link   
a reply to: links234

Yeah I agree, they had a lot of really good ideas. Very intelligent deep thinkers who were far ahead of their time.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 03:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66


Because I can answer yours.

We don't OWE illegal immigrants or undocumented workers anything that they don't earn.


And just how have they earned the right to come over here and take jobs away from hard working tax paying citizens? I don't see no long line of illegals fighting for the right to serve in our military, do you? People that make statements like you do seem to be oblivious to the real cost of illegal immigration. Illegals cost me my business, my house, a mountain of debt and a crap load of other negative repercussions, could probably throw my divorce in the mix too. All because I could no longer compete and run a legal business as my "Government" requires by LAW.

Would you be willing to lose your business, house, etc to someone in this country illegally? Hell no you wouldn't. Would they do the same for you in their country? No they wouldn't. So don't try and tell me they've earned the right to come to this country and abuse our system the way they have, because they f'n haven't.

edit on 9-9-2017 by mtnshredder because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 03:17 PM
link   

originally posted by: mtnshredder
Illegals cost me my business, my house, a mountain of debt and a crap load of other negative repercussions, could probably throw my divorce in the mix too. All because I could no longer compete and run a legal business as my "Government" requires by LAW.


Wow...if only we had a border wall and concentration camps for illegals you could be in an upper middle class family living out your early retirement in suburban Tampa right about now.




posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 03:22 PM
link   
a reply to: mtnshredder

The old "they will take your jobs" has been used for centuries from the Irish to the Italians to the Chinese.

You sound like your life isn't going so well, and you're looking for someone to blame. Sorry for that.

I can tell you that many have come to this country, worked jobs that Americans won't, worked cheaply for many business owners who perhaps were unfairly competing with you.

Hard to say.

What I said was if they come here and work, and pay taxes, and don't cause trouble, then they deserve a path to citizenship, the same as generations of immigrants have (and likely your ancestors if you're not full-blood Native American.)

That said, hope your life gets better.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 03:22 PM
link   

originally posted by: links234

originally posted by: mtnshredder
Illegals cost me my business, my house, a mountain of debt and a crap load of other negative repercussions, could probably throw my divorce in the mix too. All because I could no longer compete and run a legal business as my "Government" requires by LAW.


Wow...if only we had a border wall and concentration camps for illegals you could be in an upper middle class family living out your early retirement in suburban Tampa right about now.


Don't lump me in your "white supremacist" body bag propaganda BS. Doesn't work on me.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 03:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: mtnshredder

The old "they will take your jobs" has been used for centuries from the Irish to the Italians to the Chinese.

You sound like your life isn't going so well, and you're looking for someone to blame. Sorry for that.

I can tell you that many have come to this country, worked jobs that Americans won't, worked cheaply for many business owners who perhaps were unfairly competing with you.

Hard to say.

What I said was if they come here and work, and pay taxes, and don't cause trouble, then they deserve a path to citizenship, the same as generations of immigrants have (and likely your ancestors if you're not full-blood Native American.)

That said, hope your life gets better.


I'm not blaming and making superfluous excuses, for me, it was a reality I had little control over. I worked my ass off to get where I was, only to watch my government turn their back on the very laws that were passed to protect American citizens from this very issue.

I will say, It's about time we had a an administration that's trying to stand up for the people that they were elected to represent and enforce the laws that they were elected to uphold. Such a shame isn't it?



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 03:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: toysforadults


Why do Christians keep claiming the USA is a "Christian" country?


Maybe because it was primarily persecuted religious groups leaving England to come to the colonies?
Just a guess of course.
Or any census or studies from before 50 years ago would have shown 90% of Americans identified themselves as Christians.

So why do people keep complaining about the idea that the US was founded as a Christian nation like it was a horrible thing?
It looks like we're going to crap as a country without moral guidance from the church.
Morality isn't born with us, it's not inherited at birth and a society without it looks just like this cluster$*&^ we call America today.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 03:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: mtnshredder


What I said was if they come here and work, and pay taxes, and don't cause trouble, then they deserve a path to citizenship, the same as generations of immigrants have (and likely your ancestors if you're not full-blood Native American.)

That said, hope your life gets better.


I agree, as long as you quality that statement with "if they come here LEGALLY", and don't collect any government assistance until such time as they attain citizenship.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 04:06 PM
link   
Conversations and debates like this are impossible to have with people that aren't willing to put themselves in the shoes of those adversely effected. Those that are willing to do it, usually see the other side. They don't have to agree with it, but at least they're open minded enough to see it's not a one way street.

It's not America's fault that countries like Mexico have chosen to be corrupt third world countries. They have no one to blame but themselves.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 04:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: mtnshredder
Conversations and debates like this are impossible to have with people that aren't willing to put themselves in the shoes of those adversely effected.

Like the illegals?


Those that are willing to do it, usually see the other side. They don't have to agree with it, but at least they're open minded enough to see it's not a one way street.

Yeah, poor illegals.


It's not America's fault that countries like Mexico have chosen to be corrupt third world countries.

No it isn't but keeping immigration policy the way it is falls squarely on the US.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 06:30 PM
link   
It seems the curse of the native Americans are surely working slowly and with good progress.

Time to take back what isn't really ours.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 07:07 PM
link   

Why do we as Americans owe illegal immigrants anything?


We don't. Put down that Kool-Aid.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 08:31 PM
link   
a reply to: mtnshredder

Well, you offer your own circumstance as your evidence here, and frankly, to discuss your argument would make it more personal than I choose to.

Let's say this. The United States (and every other nation) has always been caught between immigration and nativism.

In the US, we are a nation of immigrants. The process to get a work permit and to become a citizen have become ridiculously bureaucratic and available, for the most part, only to the fairly wealthy.

There is already a substantial "work force" of immigrants in this country. Politicians, like Trump, are selling the idea that if you get rid of "the illegals" that you're going to have jobs again. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book. While you're distracted and angry ... they're going to give even more of our money away to the 1%-ers.

Opinions vary. I'd rather give a few pennies to someone trying to live and work to care for their families than to a ridiculously rich guy who already has MILLIONS.
edit on 9-9-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 08:39 PM
link   

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: mtnshredder


What I said was if they come here and work, and pay taxes, and don't cause trouble, then they deserve a path to citizenship, the same as generations of immigrants have (and likely your ancestors if you're not full-blood Native American.)

That said, hope your life gets better.


I agree, as long as you quality that statement with "if they come here LEGALLY", and don't collect any government assistance until such time as they attain citizenship.


I'm not as impressed by bureaucracy as some are I guess. We're speaking of millions of folks though.

Here's my only concerns:

1. Are they working for a living?

2. Are they paying taxes?

3. Do they contribute to our economy?

4. Do they obey the laws (victimless crimes not included.)?

Then, at the very least, they should be given work permits that are easily accessible. Because ... they're here. You can listen to politicians preening about sending 11 million people (or more) out of our economy, but that is not going to happen.



new topics

top topics



 
37
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join