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Why do we as Americans owe illegal immigrants anything?

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+20 more 
posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:19 PM
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Seriously? Why do illegal immigrants think we owe them anything?

We don't owe you citizenship, free healthcare, we don't have the responsibility to educate your kids for free we don't owe you anything!

Some immigrants (not all maybe not even many) come here and disrespect our flag, all illegal immigrants disrespect our culture by disrespecting our laws and then they make demands. I think the problem is we have allowed this problem to get so out of control that now they are essentially a nation within a nation and are able to acquire political power.

I'm not even anti immigration... here is my philosophy on immigration...

TruthJustice




“If they come of themselves, they are entitled to all the rights of citizenship,”

- Jefferson


Here Jefferson is referring to social engineering and efforts by other countries to flood our nation with immigrants like China is currently doing to undermine our laws and constitution through population.



I cannot omit recommending a revisal of the laws on the subject of naturalisation. Considering the ordinary chances of human life, a denial of citizenship under a residence of fourteen years is a denial to a great proportion of those who ask it, and controls a policy pursued from their first settlement by many of these States, and still believed of consequence to their prosperity. And shall we refuse the unhappy fugitives from distress that hospitality which the savages of the wilderness extended to our fathers arriving in this land? Shall oppressed humanity find no asylum on this globe? The Constitution, indeed, has wisely provided that, for admission to certain offices of important trust, a residence shall be required sufficient to develop character and design. But might not the general character and capabilities of a citizen be safely communicated to every one manifesting a bona fide purpose of embarking his life and fortunes permanently with us?


Also, here he also states that it would be wrong for us to not extend the same hand that was extended to us by the natives, and although this history is not accurately reflective of what happened to the native population and why due to the liberal narrative and suppression of true history there was at times peace and cohesion between the 2 ethnic groups.




The safety of a republic depends essentially on the energy of a common national sentiment; on a uniformity of principles and habits; on the exemption of the citizens from foreign bias, and prejudice; and on that love of country which will almost invariably be found to be closely connected with birth, education, and family.


Here I agree with Hamilton's argument with Jefferson's more recent liberal leanings (as the father of classical liberalism) however I think we can find a middle ground between Jefferson's more liberal views on immigration and Hamilton's thirst for nationalism. I think it's important that people who come here adapt to our culture and enjoy and hold the ideas of freedom and capitalism.

Time to pull our heads out of butt American's and realize we don't owe the world anything, if people want to come here we need to ensure that they come of their own accord and demand that they adapt to our culture not the other way around.



+6 more 
posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:28 PM
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We don't.


+4 more 
posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:31 PM
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Short answer to your question, we don't. The system is broken and they're caught in the limbo of no viable options. SO now we enforce the laws that exist and its boo hoo because we chose not to enforce them for years. We don't owe them anything, and for them to expect something just because they snuck in under the radar is about as wetoddit as those who think they are entitled to everything just because they breath the same air.

Send them back, take care of Americans who need it first, then they can try again legally. The burden they create on the already strained system is reason enough.


+10 more 
posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:35 PM
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Because your decent human beings, and you show empathy and respect to those that need it. Just like your forefathers did when they were illegal citizens and the American Indians showed them the same.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:42 PM
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I have no problem with legal immigration of those who want to contribute to our society.

No other modern nation allows what we allow as far as illegals coming in and abusing our safety net system. There are many truly needy American citizens who take a back seat to ppl who don't belong here. I'm against welfare for the able bodied in any case.

The big question is why our politicians allow it. The last election should have given them a clue that the genpop was not happy.

The so called "anchor baby" problem is another issue, but that is a rant for another day.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: Lompyt
Because your decent human beings, and you show empathy and respect to those that need it. Just like your forefathers did when they were illegal citizens and the American Indians showed them the same.


Times were very different then. My forefathers, as far as I know, weren't "illegal", and even if they were, they were not abusing our ridiculously liberal welfare system.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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We don't. However the powers that be will try to assuage you with guilt that we owe them something. That's for certain.


+7 more 
posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults


Why do Christians keep claiming the USA is a "Christian" country?



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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We dont. Its not even a moral argument. If everyone worth a damn is here selling burgers and swinging hammers, who is back home improving their country?

Mexico privatized the oil industry there, took that money for social security, social services and micro loans. Immigration has lessened from there.

Europe goes to Mexico for good jobs. Plenty of Spaniards go. There is good work there now.

So the solution isnt making them second class citizens here or even granting citizenship.

The solution depends ON THEM. The problem was theirs too. Corruption and public theft caused Mexico to go under. Now, its better and people see why.

Fight corruption. That is how.

We cant take more people. This boat does sink.


edit on 9 9 2017 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: Mach2

It's simple, illegal immigrants vote Democrat.... wait for it... illegally. Then they have legal kids who vote Democrat.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:48 PM
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a reply to: Lompyt

Let's be correct here.

The United States as of today was a group of conquered territories.

By:

Spain
France
Portugal
England
Netherlands

Our forefathers we englishmen/women fighting for English rights...eventually lead to war and colonial state independence.

Spain ravaged central America as did the Catholic church. Portugal attempted to rape the Americas What you see today reflects that affect.

History goes back to its roots and not to be treated as a buffet.

Mg



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults


People who speak as you do normally feels that way about all impoverished people, native and immigrant. So I don't think there's any point discussing it as an immigration issue.

As to owing them citizenship? It's not ethically ours to give. A bunch of Europeans came here because they didn't like where they were and then genocided their way into carving out borders and rules. Then we prided ourselves on accepting people from all over the world who came from situations like we just escaped.

So... if I were to imagine the US from an etic perspective as an outsider, I would have difficulty respecting the immigration laws of a nation founded in tyranny and promoted as a nation of immigrants as opposed to a nation that has been there for thousands of years with a homogeneous culture.

Again, I'm not saying it's "right" in terms of lawfulness but an expectation of citizenship seems natural when an immigrant wants to come here to bust ass and pay taxes.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: Lompyt
Because your decent human beings, and you show empathy and respect to those that need it. Just like your forefathers did when they were illegal citizens and the American Indians showed them the same.


You basically summed up why (not to).

How well did that all work out for the Indians?

And you 'assume' people are decent human beings.

But assuming is your fault.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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You are correct in one thing. Nobody owes anybody anything. But there are other factors to life than just the bottom line of profit generation in the capitalist system .

Capitalism is a voracious beast. It consumes everything in it's path, cultures, societies and peoples. It is built upon the concept of never ending supply of resources that are to be used by the capitalist in order to fund their own kingdoms and power structures.

It is not the liberals who bring immigrants to this country. It is the capitalist system. It brings them in to use as bottom of the pile slave laborers . Low paying drones to be ground underfoot by those who have managed through their own sweat in this system to prove to themselves that that is all they are too, low paying drones.

Sure, play the capitalist game well enough and those at the top will allow you a reasonable living but that is only because they will use you to fight for them as a bulwark against the even lower paid masses.

Yes, America needs to take it's head out of it's butt. However the butt it has it's head up is the butt of the rich capitalists from which they feed.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: TerryMcGuire

To be anti capitalist is to be anti private property rights and that I am not.



cap·i·tal·ism
ˈkapədlˌizəm/Submit
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:53 PM
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originally posted by: Black_Fox

originally posted by: Lompyt
Because your decent human beings, and you show empathy and respect to those that need it. Just like your forefathers did when they were illegal citizens and the American Indians showed them the same.


You basically summed up why (not to).

How well did that all work out for the Indians?

And you 'assume' people are decent human beings.

But assuming is your fault.


That history is far more complex than she would have you believe although many atrocities were commit during that time period.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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Because OUR powers of OBSERVATION apparently eee more....
www.stevequayle.com...



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:57 PM
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indiancountrymedianetwork.com...

That link will bring you to the history of thanksgiving from a native American perspective.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: TerryMcGuire

To be anti capitalist is to be anti private property rights and that I am not.



cap·i·tal·ism
ˈkapədlˌizəm/Submit
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.


Wow. Less then two minutes to read my reply, look up an appropriate definition that would dismiss it out of hand and then post it.

If you would like to discuss capitalism as a driving force of immigration rather than the liberalism you suggest as it's motivator then let's. But just blaming everything on liberalism is a one sided and extremely limiting vision of reality.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: Abysha





. A bunch of Europeans came here because they didn't like where they were


Not really.

The American Colonies mostly came into being because people wanted to make money. The colonies where business ventures. i.e The Virginia Company.



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