Miami shelters homeless against their will as Irma closes in

originally posted by: chadderson
a reply to: SeaWorthy

We have the freedom to not be 'dead body haulers'... so their angst towards the deceased for having to lug them around is misplaced IMO.

The dead will float into public places and private places, the corpse affects everyone even the average person returning to their home. It affects health and property of others.

so, just where are the open-door Mosques to help shelter these people?

the Muslim community in Fla seem to be mute...

also the cherished RED CRESCENT that provides aid & comfort along the lines of the RED CROSS is also not existent in both Texas & Florida .....

makes one go ---Hummm ?!

originally posted by: Black_Fox
I must admit to being curious as to what will become of all the new homeless throughout the country.

Texas, FLorida, etc....

I wonder what new things they will have to follow.

Cause there are going to be new homeless after all this.

And the baker act is often abused to have people committed, much like how the cops can slap disorderly conduct on anyone, just to put them in jail.

Be careful what "firsts" are set, cause you know they will be applied to other in situations.

Do you have any sources on abuse of the Baker Act? I haven't heard of abuses from it when I lived there or after.

I'm still on the fence about this being used as such but am leaning towards support as I did and wish other states had a similar bill in some cases where friend's family members went on to kill themselves because they could not legally have their family member put under care when needed.

In one place in the path of Irma, instead authorities are allowing a homeless man to stay in his car, that is dangerous in itself.

a reply to: Black_Fox

Agree lest they become a danger to themselves and flying debris to others.

a reply to: LABTECH767

OK long short my sister called her sons homeless father in fort Lauderdale today, he was sitting drunk on his ass at a bus stop, broken foot, ribs and nose I think it was (this time), he was TOTALLY oblivious to anything going on!!! Does not "like" shelters because he cant bum liquor there...

A saying about idiots not smart enough to come in out of the rain is tugging at my brain.

It's not really a time for defiance and people saying you're not the boss of me.
It's a category 4 hurricane. If someone is saying hey I chose to stay outside in that they don't really understand the severity of the situation.
If they don't understand the severity and can't be convinced to go indoors then they are not capable of understanding and need help.
People who are capable wouldn't be making a decision to remain outdoors. It's already a killer storm.

All I can say is if you're so stupid you chose to remain outdoors in a category four hurricane then please put a list of your next of kin in your pocket that way the authorities know where to send your body.

a reply to: St Udio

Hurricane Harvey: Mosques open doors to victims of devastating flooding in Houston

Texas Muslims are turning mosques into shelters for Hurricane Harvey victims

a reply to: Black_Fox

Can they present a logical reason why they refuse help and yet do not wish harm to themselves?

a reply to: antar

Mental health issues, he should be institutionalized until he is off the alcohol and a full psyche eval done to establish his mental health, he sound's to be very ill and possible a manic depressive to me and if that is the case Alcohol is the very last thing he should be imbibing - also if he has drank meth's he probably has a lot more dead brain cell's, I do not know what type of father he was, what type of guy or how his life left the rail's but he definitely need's help with or without his permission.

I can however understand if neither of you want anything to do with him, my mother's ex husband was a wife beater, a real scum bag and a lout as we say in Liverpool across the pond but that aside I hate him and wish I could excise all genetic link to that thing from my own flesh, I would still not want to see that dog living in the gutter but in his case he would actually deserve too so if it was anything like that then I would understand, still I do not reflect his disgrace upon any other human being - in fact I don't regard him as a human being more like something I would throw a pair of shoes away for if I trod in it, not even clean them because you know too bad but that is a personal matter and as a principle society should care for the homeless unless of course it is actually there culture and they have a unique society but then Gypsy's and other travelling people are not actually homeless.

Ask yourself this, is it right that in the richest country's in the world where some live like emperors that other's born of there same people in there same land are living in the gutter having suffered life destroying occurrences of one kind or another, is it right that your brother in God is lying there dying of hypothermia and malnutrition while you go home to a roast dinner and a bottle of light beer in front of a TV show, is it right that an elderly woman with no relatives has all her possessions in an old shopping cart and has to live under a bridge before being moved on by police like she was trash or something.

You know it is not right in any sense of the word.

Did Jesus have a home?.

originally posted by: badw0lf
Conflicted on this..

Not every homeless person has a mental deficiency. What if *I* chose to just be homeless and said I'm staying. Locked up as a patient? Yeah, nah. But rambling bob and his trolley full of empty bags and cans, who thinks the moon talks to him, yeah, he needed help LONG before any crisis. Seems odd to me.

I hope for the safety of all, but not at the behest of a law that treats me as incapable of my own decisions. As long as my decisions also waiver any expectation of help, should I find my self neck deep in flood waters and having trees thrust towards my bonce.

Save the homeless at any costs, but only in a hurricane.. otherwise they can die in the gutter? Or cast out to the furthest regions of the normal citizens? Or walked over, starving, and in need?

soooo many things can be said here..

They don't want floating dead bodies attracting the crocodiles. It's not going to be pleasant for anyone to try and pick up a decomposing human body off the sidewalk. Then there will have to be a pathology report, relatives located, news stations asking if more could have been done.

I'm in FL and I'm not going to one of those rape/assault palaces. My girlfriend is super hot and we went to a shelter earlier and people were already sizing me up and checking out my supplies. Nobody is stupid for not wanting to go to one of those shelters.

a reply to: TheMZA

That is the best argument against, it sounds like they are not being correctly run and should have a stronger police presence within them just to make certain thing's like that do not happen perhaps with CCTV monitoring the crowd.

Anyone behaving in that fashion is actually a looter and rapist and in time's of crisis just as in time's of war that is an executable offence if they are caught in the act (of course in the state's you can be shot at a police officers discretion from what I have read on this site) so it should also carry stringent punishment.

A LONG jail term for looters and rapists whom prey on people at there most vulnerable and especially at time's like this should be mandatory.

Your argument I can understand, under those circumstances you would rather be somewhere else if it was safe, I had a former friend whom bought a used car over the net in the 90's and on his gap year drove across the state's, the car broke down half way and even though he was with four other students doing the same thing, all big lad's he saw a different side to the state's after they had to use bus travel to complete the last part of there journey having left the ownership paper's with the broken down car for anyone whom found it to claim it as there own and he actually swore that he would never go back there again when he got back to England, said they had some pretty horrible moment's over there and this was a guy whom at the age of 17 walked around Europe for six month's backpacking it in the late 80's so he was not the type to be afraid of a few strange people - he came back from that with a dislike for part's of italy though and later lived in Sweden for over 10 years - before it got bad there, has dual nationality with both British and Swedish citizenship.

Myself I am like a tree, I don't like to go far from my root's so stay put though I have been abroad, always sighed a sigh of relief to get back home though.

So that sound's pretty bad and I never thought about that, you are essentially being shoe horned into a place with no privacy, little or no safety from the vultures and wolves of society's underbelly with whom you have to share your personal space and feel more in danger there than anywhere else which of course show's a failing on the part of law enforcement though in there defense it would be pretty hard to police such a venue if not nearly impossible.

Yeah I see the argument for both sides, the freedom of choice one is compelling for me too as I am all about freedom! However it is true that if one of these people gets in trouble they will HAVE to be rescued, we can't rightly stand by the waters edge and wave saying "you chose to stay matey, we told you soooooo" lol.

So, save them now or later? I think most people in their right minds would welcome shelter, the rest must be pretty crazy so okay, drag em off... Though there is an argument for letting evolution take it's course... But I digress...

a reply to: LABTECH767

Thank you for your take on this, my Sis has tried many many times, saved his life even more, he is damaged and has no desire at all to live any other way. It is hard to imagine, but there are some people who are lost souls and refuse to be found.

a reply to: Black_Fox>>>> We have those who say they don't need the government and will stick it out. Then things go south in a bad way and they need to be rescued. Or we have the government who assures its people it can do everything for them but when things go south it says" Good luck, there's nothing we can do." Or the middle ground where the government can drag you out of your homes and force you evacuate even against your will. There has to be a better way.

People all just look like people when up to their neck in water. Couldn't tell a difference if they had to.

a reply to: badw0lf

a reply to: Bluntone22

Not well, I'm thinking.

I would not take well to being told I have no choice in the matter...but then I'm smart enough **hush** to come in out of the hurricane.

I've been out in weather conditions similar to hurricanes--only much colder--and you have to have issues to not want to be sheltered...willingly or no.

a reply to: chadderson

What about my choice, or freedom if you prefer, not to have to clean up your dead body when it's discovered three or four days after the storm? I've had to do things of that nature, and I'd just as soon not have that inflicted upon others if it can be avoided.

being a ex EMT i would have to agree with the state.

I have had to deal with many health code 5150 cases (Calif version of the baker act)

There are a small number of cases that if you told them a hurricane was coming 10 minutes later they would not remember what they were told.
There are also a small number that will tell you they are god and immune to hurricanes.

Psych meds reduce the dopamine reactions in the brain and stomach. Side effects can be severe and doctors today are over-medicating to make profit from these cra××y solutions to recovering mental health. Tardiv disconesia is involuntary movements caused by telling the brain not to feel pleasure. For me, it caused me to get diabetes, and the involuntary movements caused a bone in my upper vertebrea to dislodge causing dystonia.

While in a psych ward they can strap you down and isolate you just for being nice. Ive seen it. Ive seen how parents put their kids in for 10 years. One girl never talked but opened up to me just being nice, i saw another try to commit suicide.

See they dont focus on counseling they just force dangerous drugs and do nothing to solve whats causing a persons thinking.

Thats what its like in a psych ward.

Oh and in mental health court, the county lady asked me one question. "Are you insane"? To which i firmly answered no. They sent me back to the hospital. I flicked them off secretly.