It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Teachings of Don Juan by Carlos Castaneda

page: 2
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 4 2008 @ 08:31 PM
link   
There are many Naguals from many different 'lineages'.

Some of them teach others openly, some dont.

One of my teachers, Don Miguel Ruiz is also a Nagual writer - of the Eagle Knight lineage - (The Four Agreements, The Voice of Knowledge etc...) he states of The Toltec:

Thousands of years ago, the Toltec were known throughout southern Mexico as "women and men of knowledge." Anthropologists have spoken of the Toltec as a nation or race, but, in fact, the Toltec were scientists and artists who formed a society to explore and conserve the spiritual knowledge and practices of the ancient ones. They came together as masters (naguals) and students at Teotihuacan, the ancient city of the pyramids outside Mexico City known as the place where "Man Becomes God."

Over the millennia, the Naguals were forced to conceal the ancestral wisdom and maintain its existence in obscurity. European conquest, coupled with rampant misuse of personal power by a few of the apprentices, made it necessary to shield the knowledge from those who were not prepared to use it wisely or who might intentionally misuse it for personal gain.

(no wonder no one but Carlos can say he met Don Juan)

If any have questions on this subject Im always willing to help.




posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 02:52 PM
link   
Glad to see threads about this, I personally have read the books.. many many times.. 20-30 each lol. at the age of 17 I wrote down everything I found to be useful from all of the books, and at 19 I set off to find a shaman in central america.. lol. Good times.. anyways!
sylvie, you said fear being a "mortal sin" or something along those lines, which isn't exactly what was stated, A warrior should be fully afraid yet not run away, to control ones fear/emotions is counter-productive.
ANYWAYSSS About a year ago I was looking for more information and I found a person named Lujan Matus, His book, the art of stalking parallel perception.. Is a great read, He claims to have been in direct contact with zakai, who is later identified as don juan himself, all of this is done via dreaming. I actually did an online tutor program with him.. twas rather interesting. Anyways, I would reccomend reading it if your trying to rekindle "The toltec passion"



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 02:59 PM
link   
The stuff is interesting and impressive, and it sure got a lot of college kids and hippies interested in doing peyote, etc. But Castaneda was debunked long, long ago. Turns out he just made up the stuff. So it's interesting as fiction purported to be reality, but it never really happened.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 03:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nohup
The stuff is interesting and impressive, and it sure got a lot of college kids and hippies interested in doing peyote, etc. But Castaneda was debunked long, long ago. Turns out he just made up the stuff. So it's interesting as fiction purported to be reality, but it never really happened.



Wait a second here. As some of the practices recommended by Castaneda have real effects I could care less if his work has been "debunked" or not. In this sense, effectiveness is the measure of truth.

Of course there´s also a counter-side to everything and for those interested in reading the dark side of Castaneda "The Sorcerers Apprentice" by his ex-wife Amy Wallace is pretty interesting.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 03:05 PM
link   
ahhh! off-limits discusion!!!


I'm not even sure I can comment on this book without breaking ATS rules. I'll just say that this book is worth reading, despite your opinion on the contents and actions of the characters - fictional or not.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 03:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by Nohup
The stuff is interesting and impressive, and it sure got a lot of college kids and hippies interested in doing peyote, etc. But Castaneda was debunked long, long ago. Turns out he just made up the stuff. So it's interesting as fiction purported to be reality, but it never really happened.


I read the first 3 in the early 70's when I was in my late teens and was certianly impressed but something just didn't seem right and I could never quite put my finger on it until I actually spent some time studying the occult and native American practices and it finally clicked... it read more like a fantesy novel as opposed to the notes of an anthropologist. Later it came out, after he had died that he made the whole thing up and had never even been an anthropology student. It was all a fraud.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 03:20 PM
link   
Regarding the OP, his original books came out in the 70's. And have been debunked ever since.

Don Juan wasn't even a real person, he was a conglomeration of what Castaneda deemed important from the many spiritual people he met throughout his life.

Mr. Castaneda passed away some time ago. This is not new stuff.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 03:55 PM
link   
reply to post by Choronzon
 


as soon as I read the part about "smoking" what he called "little smoke." In fact, psilocybe breaks down at higher temperatures.. especially the temperatures high enough to create a flame. That's just ridiculous. I read the amended version of the book as well (extended epilogue) where he states that the reason the "little smoke" worked that method, is that most of it was ingested orally during the inhaling process.

Ya, right.


still, like I said - it's well worth the read. I read it in a few hours, couldn't put it down.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 04:33 PM
link   
Yes, those (wise Toltecs) have practiced an art that is most comprehensive and a viable tool to learn about your enviroment.

The Internal and External Universe. Everyone of his techniques work, without a doubt.



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 07:19 PM
link   
If indeed you've read the books then you should understand the reasons for some of the 'errors'
if you've done the work properly, it will become plain why some things weren't specified properly and some things were only eluded to and not directly mentioned.
The books weren't meant to teach you outright they were meant to get you thinking so your own brain could teach you.
As I've already said, if you've read all the books you would also notice that there isn't much reference to drugs in the later books.
Carlos served his purpose, was he a Nagual..... ? Well in my opinion, No... but he had the ability to capture everything necessary. I think there are some things Carlos couldn't give up, including women.

The little smoke isn't mushrooms like it is written, the ingredients were not plainly written but the reference to mushrooms is a guide if you pay attention to the experience and way the experience is explained.

The DEBUNK'ing that everyone is talking about is just second hand knowledge you all have from rumors I have heard both sides of the story and if you read the books there is PLAIN explanation for the 'errors' ... A lot of what was used as a reason to debunk castaneda is just as dubious as meeting a shaman in mexico.

You are all missing the point.

I have spoken with Lujan myself.. he asked me for my assistance on his board and with some other matters, but I do not find him to quite understand what was written in those books either, he has made it for himself, which is fine.
The whole Nagual movement right now is a blatant joke.

and to who-ever said that this stuff isn't new........

well neither is the alphabet ... but you still use that, and it's very relevant.
that and neither is Jesus Christ, but he seems to have quite a FOLLOWING too ..

The time will come when people actually put forth an honest effort to become, or to engage in the battle for knowledge and understanding to perpetuate themselves into Freedom, into Eternity.
There, many will be waiting.


Our fellow men are black magicians. And whoever is with them
is a black magician on the spot. Think for a moment, can you
deviate from the path that your fellow men have lined up for you?
And if you remain with them, your thoughts and your actions are
fixed forever in their terms. That is slavery. The warrior, on the
other hand, is free from all that. Freedom is expensive, but the
price is not impossible to pay. So, fear your captors, your
masters. Don't waste your time and your power fearing freedom.

[edit on 2/12/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]



posted on Feb, 12 2008 @ 07:57 PM
link   
Just wanted to lend my support to the thread. Excellent.



posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 11:07 AM
link   

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
If indeed you've read the books...
I personally own and have read them all. It's only after getting about 60% through his writings that it became obvious to me that he was a philanthropist and not at all an anthropologist or spiritual guru.

Anyone who makes it to a decent age develops steadfast spiritual beliefs. There is no reason to elevate Carlos's idealogy above any other. At best I would consider him insightfull.



posted on Feb, 15 2008 @ 11:28 AM
link   

Originally posted by scientist
ahhh! off-limits discusion!!!


I'm not even sure I can comment on this book without breaking ATS rules. I'll just say that this book is worth reading, despite your opinion on the contents and actions of the characters - fictional or not.


Which book, Carlos or his ex-wifes's.

I read Carlos first four books back in the seventies when I was studying in Paris. I thought they were a great story that pushed my imagination.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by Xtrozero]



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 02:40 PM
link   
After reading the so called 'debunker' posts, Id like to ask you this:

Where is your proof? I would like to see this 'proof' that he was fake. Im sure that you could easily back up your claims (as opposed to being just 'an informed opinion on the subject').

Because I for one have proof that Native American Shamans are real and do teach such knowledge that awakens within us higher realities.

Where is your proof that this does not occur?

What about Florinda Donner? Was she debunked as well? She was a member of his party, and a curendera in her own right. And Taisha Abelar? Was she debunked as well? You ARE of course aware that it wasnt one person but a group of people he was dealing with right? AND that more than one of those people wrote books about their experiences?? I could easily ask you many questions that throws your shaded opinion into the light for what it is.... that is of course, unless you have all the answers?

I really am curious to see this proof and would greatly appreciate it.

[edit on 21-2-2008 by Grock]



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 02:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Nohup
The stuff is interesting and impressive, and it sure got a lot of college kids and hippies interested in doing peyote, etc. But Castaneda was debunked long, long ago. Turns out he just made up the stuff. So it's interesting as fiction purported to be reality, but it never really happened.



Wait a second here. As some of the practices recommended by Castaneda have real effects I could care less if his work has been "debunked" or not. In this sense, effectiveness is the measure of truth.


I think that ever-cynical Nohup meant that it has been proven (which I do not know if it is) that Don Juan did not exist? Am I correct?

Anyway, to me it doesn't really matter whether he existed or not.. Also few other great teachers and their existence could be argued in the light of historical evidence.. Like Jesus or Socrates which both may be imaginary characters or some stereotype or idea of a perfect human being. What you gotta understand is that those writers who might have invented those characters, were connected to higher consciousness and therefore teachings of their imagined (or real) characters are no less important.

Castaneda's make very good read, teachings of Don Juan match with many other good teachings when read in specific way
Kill the egoes, find your true self, be a match of your words, act like you think, don't think like you don't act and otherway arounds
Love all the creation as you do yourself and so forth. Important stuff!



[edit on 21-2-2008 by v01i0]



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 03:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Grock
What about Florinda Donner? Was she debunked as well?

Yes she was. As just a simple example, you can read their chronologies from sustained action, which can be verified by doing simple research on their books and public activities to prove that their lives are frauds:

Carlos and Florinda Chronologies

[edit on 2/21/2008 by Choronzon]



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 03:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Grock
Where is your proof? I would like to see this 'proof' that he was fake. Im sure that you could easily back up your claims (as opposed to being just 'an informed opinion on the subject').


A good place to start might be here:

www.salon.com...

Do a little bit of investigation and the whole deal starts to stink very quickly. Of course, there will be those who will come up with odd rationalizations to keep their faith alive. That's to be expected. The hard part is to face the reality of it.



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 03:24 PM
link   
i dont understand what part was a hoax..

90% of the book is about hallucinations. how do you debunk a hallucination? seems to be the epitome of pointless, but whatever.

so what if he never actually met some old indian guy? that was hardly a staple in the book, more like just adding another character to include some dialog.



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 03:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by scientist
i dont understand what part was a hoax..

90% of the book is about hallucinations. how do you debunk a hallucination? seems to be the epitome of pointless, but whatever.

so what if he never actually met some old indian guy? that was hardly a staple in the book, more like just adding another character to include some dialog.


Well, if you make stuff up and claim that's it's the real honest to god truth, that's usually called a hoax. If you do it to make money from hopeful, gullible suckers, that's generally called fraud. Maybe he had hallucinations and wrote them down. That can't be proven one way or another. But the overall story was supposed to be true, along with the bogus "Transegrity" stuff he was organizing in his last years, and it all turned out to be jive.

But hey, believe it if you want. Nobody's stopping you. I know a lot of people who believe in a completely unverified story about a magical rabbi who supposedly rose from the dead about 2,000 years ago. Most of them are decent people.



posted on Feb, 21 2008 @ 06:52 PM
link   


Carlos served his purpose, was he a Nagual..... ? Well in my opinion, No... but he had the ability to capture everything necessary. I think there are some things Carlos couldn't give up, including women.


-“it's better to get something worthwhile done using deception than to fail to get something worthwhile done using truth.”

I believe near the end Carlos realized that he had been duped, I have consulted some shaman I know of, who can do some pretty interesting things.. and needless to say.. their only response to me was.. "those who write are writing for others and not themselves."

It is clear to me that there is a lot of emotion concerning the whole ordeal or else people wouldn't so passionately defend and attack it.

The books aren't meant for this society or culture so to argue your points from that stand-point is useless, much like what was previously mentioned about hallucinations, although that is NOT what the entire series of books is about, that is a very big misconception.
You cannot argue something rationally when rational thinking and reason only account for so much of our experience.

edit: and don't get me started with that joke Tensegrity .. ugh..

[edit on 2/21/2008 by PuRe EnErGy]



new topics

top topics



 
4
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join