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Democrats started the KKK, Racism and the Confederacy...

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posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 03:39 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

LOL

Judging just what we know about the pic. In a vacuum.

OP presents a thought experiment and I responded to the experiment.

In person I'd obviously cross the street to avoid the guy because hes probably a wanker.

Judging by the odds of both groups(Militia in U.S. vs Muslims in U.S.)

Who has had more violent tendencies, and follow through?




posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Hazardous1408

See. Historically, political parties were sharply divided by region of the country you lived in. North vs South. So there were two types of Republicans and two types of Democrats. The divisions in this country were more sharply geographical. Now each side has consolidated towards a political persuasion so the divides are along partisan lines, but the problem arises when people who are used to this being the political norm try to apply these political divisions to the past, and it doesn't work that way. Southern Democrats had sharply different beliefs than Northern Democrats, and the same held true for Republicans.


We can't apply today's democrats to democrats of the past, but we can apply today's white people (i.e. Trump supporters) to whites of the past?

Can you point out where I made that bolded argument you are assigning to me? Because that looks like a bonafide strawman that you pulled out of your ass.


Every Trump supporter gets accused of being a racist and a white nationalist and we get compared with the lives of men 150 years ago. Lives nobody today truly knows anything about.



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 04:14 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: Hazardous1408

This is only confusing to people who mistakenly think the Republicans were always right-aligned and the Democrats always left-aligned.

The left-wing has always been pro-equality and the Republican party was very progressive and left-wing in the beginning.

The only similarities to old Republicans and modern Republicans are the thoughts on a gold standard and high tariffs (which, incidentally, are two of the few things I appreciate about the modern Republican party).


You're kind of right. The Republicans have always been pro equality. They've never been left wing.

Lol. The Republicans during Lincoln's time were progressive.
Republicans Used to Be Liberal, Democrats Conservative. Here’s What Happened.
Hell the party was actually founded by a... wait for it... DUN DUN DUN!!! Socialist!

Originally, the Republicans were the Northerners, some of them abolitionists, progressives, liberals, radicals. In fact, the Republican Party was founded by Alvan Bovay and other socialists in the former utopian community of Ripon, Wisconsin in March 1854. It was founded as an anti-slavery party, a response to political setbacks in the abolition struggle. (See The “S” Word: A Brief History of an American Tradition…Socialism, John Nichols.)


Thanks for the opinionated blog. It's not hard to understand why today's democrats hate being linked with yesterday's democrats. Hell, most of today's democrats don't even claim to be democrats anymore, they always claim to be neutral. Nothing has changed with democrats besides their targets.



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

Don't move the goal posts. The KKK and Nazis are conservative. End of story.


Maybe that's why they don't go around looking for trouble anymore... Once again that belongs to the democrats.

Trouble like driving a car full speed into a group of protestors, killing one? Oh wait that ISN'T looking for trouble to you. Just throwing stones and being a general nuisance is.


Looking for trouble would be Antifa showing up to counter protest a peaceful rally. Thanks for bringing up a great example. That nutjob never would have drove into those people if they hadn't showed up to start a fight. I know you're probably going to skip that part and jump straight to the reaction though.



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 04:18 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It reminds me of this picture:

Which one is the dangerous one and which one is the normal citizen? Logic would say the one with the gun, mask, and military gear is the dangerous one. But we're not dealing with logical people. (For the record, this was taken a year or 2 ago at one of those armed right wing marches at mosques. the woman was leaving a mosque while the armed guy was a "protester".)


Did she get shot?



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 04:22 PM
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originally posted by: Shamrock6

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

Don't move the goal posts. The KKK and Nazis are conservative. End of story.


Maybe that's why they don't go around looking for trouble anymore... Once again that belongs to the democrats.


Yes, neo-Nazis are planning to rally in Berkeley because it's a lovely little college town, and not because it's a hotbed of liberalism and their presence is in and of itself provocative.

And they showed up in Charlottesville because it's just a sleepy little town in Virginia. Very picturesque. They just happened to have their helmets and sticks because they forgot to not pack them.

I get it. Now the debate descends into who throws the first bottle full of piss at the others, and that can rage on for page after page. But the statement that the klan and neo-Nazis aren't looking for trouble is utterly ridiculous. They adore victimhood. They love when they can piss somebody off enough that somebody takes a swing at them. Because there's no scenario where they can't claim that they're just a victim and people are scared of their "truth." So...no, maybe they aren't always looking to go out and lynch anybody.

But they're sure as hell looking for somebody they can play the victim for.


Nobody called them a victim, try again... The problem started when they were able to bait another group of snowflakes. What would have happened that day if bitter, angry counter protesters hadn't showed up to give them what they were supposedly looking for? That's right, nothing.



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 04:23 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Butterfinger

Did you just rationalize fearing an unarmed woman over a military gear decked out person with a rifle?


Was she shot?



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Krazysh0t

It reminds me of this picture:

Which one is the dangerous one and which one is the normal citizen? Logic would say the one with the gun, mask, and military gear is the dangerous one. But we're not dealing with logical people. (For the record, this was taken a year or 2 ago at one of those armed right wing marches at mosques. the woman was leaving a mosque while the armed guy was a "protester".)


Did she get shot?


That wasn't the point. You were suppose to get emotionally triggered by the picture and stop all thought processes, break down and start crying. Your insertion of logic ruined the entire attempt.


edit on 8-9-2017 by ClovenSky because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 05:03 PM
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a reply to: LSU0408

What do I need to "try again?" I didn't say anybody called them a victim.

I said you pretending that the KKK and Nazis not out for trouble is an asinine claim to make. But thanks for agreeing with my assertion that they try to bait people.

Might wanna "try again" with keeping up to speed on your own comments, and the replies to them.



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Got it, and thanks for the reply......very informative. I tend to forget the history of the KKK and I guess that's because I live in Texas. At least in my lifetime, the KKK hasn't had much of a following in Texas that I am aware of. The only place they may have had much influence was in the deepest recesses of East Texas, which frankly is viewed by the rest of Texas as sort of in-bred hillbilly Texas. Hell, even as a white guy, I am uncomfortable in Vidor or Jasper.

I wont visit their website. It is repugnant to me. In terms of the Texas political spectrum, I would be considered a Conservative Democrat. What rather puzzles me is that the KKK would be associated with "conservatism". Conservative Democrats in Texas have been very supportive of the black community; we have a lot of touch with the black community and work closely with the black AME church communities to assist black youth in pursuing University degrees, and in finding jobs. I don't know. Maybe the breed or brand of "conservative" Democrat doesn't fit with the modern definition of "conservative". It is complicated. It is further complicated by the fact that many black Texans and community leaders see and define themselves as "conservative" Democrats. Politically speaking, Texas is a rather strange landscape.



posted on Sep, 8 2017 @ 10:23 PM
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a reply to: TonyS

Yeah, I've been to Texas maybe 6 times. Love the wome.. err, the sports & food.


But no, I really think you should check out their party platform for yourself. Even if you limit yourself to a 5 minunte glance of their positions. Otherwise, you will never know what they actually stand for and thus, will always have doubts as to why people keep associating their policies with modern right wing philosophies.

It's like if people were hypothetically debating a specific secret society. On one hand, we'd have people saying how impactful & sinister they are. And on the other hand, we'd have people saying they're docile, harmless, or whatever. Wouldn't it make more sense to actually look at that secret society's stated goals and policies to figure ut where they stand for yourself?

I don't think I've mentioned this on ATS yet, but I even have a digital copy of the Kloran (that's the KKK's old handbook). There are different versions so it's not like I know everything about them, but I know enough about them to know when people here are BSing about them.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: Hazardous1408

1) Who is marching with Neo Nazis and the KKK in "unite the right" rallies...?
2) Who is lamenting Confederate statues...?
3) Who is waving Confederate flags...?

That would be Republicans-Conservatives wouldn't it...

===================================

What's wrong with lamenting statues lost or waving confederate flags? I've spoken with blacks who are just as pissed as anyone about the destruction of our historical monuments by vandals. If I was black, I would love having that reminded of how far we've made it together as a nation. I guess focusing on the negative gets more attention. If it bleeds it leads.

I don't know much about the nazi march so I wont comment there.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: 3n19m470



If I was black, I would love having that reminded of how far we've made it together as a nation.

That's what history books and museums are for. There's no need to honor that crap on public lands. The same people who complain that African Americans should get over slavery turn around and wave the flag of the pro-slavery confederates. They say we should forget our painful heritage here, yet they make sure we can't forget it by keeping up the statues and monuments from the same painful heritage.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant




a digital copy of the Kloran (that's the KKK's old handbook).


Get the f## outta here... (an expression of shock and disbelief. not intended as a request for you to vacate the premises with haste)

I freakin Knew the Muslims were behind this from Day 1!



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: 3n19m470



If I was black, I would love having that reminded of how far we've made it together as a nation.

That's what history books and museums are for. There's no need to honor that crap on public lands. The same people who complain that African Americans should get over slavery turn around and wave the flag of the pro-slavery confederates. They say we should forget our painful heritage here, yet they make sure we can't forget it by keeping up the statues and monuments from the same painful heritage.


How far weve made it together as a nation is "crap"?

Oh... I didn't know you felt that way. Ok... I'll try to keep my sense of brotherhood with all my fellow Americans a little more discreet, so as not to offend.

So, you don't think I, as a white man, feel pain when I see a statue like that or anytime slavery or racism is mentioned? You don't think pain is a good thing ever? Just eliminate all pain? Because its hard?

It's a source of pain for me too. White guilt is a real thing. You don't think I wish there was something more I could do about what happened? I'm sorry man, ok? I did my research, I never met my father so I don't know 50% of my heritage. I may never know.

My moms family were german immigrants, northerners who came here in the 1850s, with more family coming to join after ww2, as was often the case. It took them until the 1950s to get here, and the American side paid for it all... im guessing it was tough for the common person to get out. If they were some well connected nazi instead,of a simple farmer, theyd either get here a lot sooner, or been tried for war crimes or killed. I'll probably never know if there was any nazi relation in any way shape or form.

But they didn't have slaves. It's only 50% of me, but, it brought tears to my eyes when I found out, and, a,little now just talking about it.

Getting over something and forgetting something are two different things. It's your choice to get over something or let an inanimate object defeat you. I see that and its a solid reminder of why we don't do that anymore. It's like a person who used to be overweight, carrying a picture of their heavier selves as a motivation, as a reminder, as an inspiration... maybe letting their painful legacy into the past isn't always the best thing.

As for forgetting? I don't think anyone has a right to tell you how to use your memory. I would say no you should Not forget. Think about it, talk about it, create a statue. But Dont..ah... Don't.... DESTROY a statue... Seriously whats that going to solve?


If you haven't noticed, kids Can enjoy libraries and museums, but, for the most part kids are in the library to use the internet or do homework, and only relish the museum as a field trip, because they dont have to sit at a desk that day...

Kids LOVE parks though.

It's just a couple of statues, man. I don't care about those statues. But it's like book burning. I don't want ANY books burned. So, I hope you understand, this isn't from any sense of emotional attachment with those specific statues. I've lived in Washington State my entire life.

I think its important to really see how these people were glorified. How they were perceived in their own time. But... If it means that much to you, I'm not willing to fight you over this. I don't think it's going to fix anything though.

There is race unity between whites and blacks like never before. Only about 50% of my girlfriends,have been white. Any less whites and id be accused of having some kind of a fetish. I just like beautiful women. *shrug* More black celebrities, politicians, milionaires, athletes, hollywood big shots, than ever before. I am really kind of proud to be an american today in that aspect.



I'm hanging out and having fun with people of All types, all the time. I don't see where all this persecution and tension is, unless i watch or read the news. White people Love black people. The numbers prove it. The economics. I don't know what the problem is. If they didnt kill tupac, I bet he would've grown up and left that thug life behind, and we would've voted him as president. Biggie as VP in name only. In reality he's the de facto president of the East Coast.

Let's just cut the crap and be honest here... Black people in America, have had a tradition of struggle against the white oppressor. Well, when you're a hammer 🔨 and every problem looks like a nail... There is no real white oppressor...but there is a STATUE of one... Man, we could tear that down and have a real victory. A real sense of accomplishment... Like our grandparents in the civil rights era!

Come on bro, be real with me... Is it a little bit, that? Our whole generation is feeling is man. Our grandparents had ww2, civil rights, Berlin Wall... A,real sense of conquering some evil and doing some good. Chuck Palahniuk covered this in Fight Club...



 I see all this potential and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables, slaves with white collars, advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy # we don't need.

We're the middle children of the history man, no purpose or place, we have no Great war, no Great depression, our great war is a spiritual war, our great depression is our lives, we've been all raised by television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires and movie gods and rock stars, but we won't and we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very very pissed off.


^^^^ has this changed? We are All angry, bro... Someone has convinced you we aren't in this together. Nobody quite knows who to blame but we all know things are not quite right... We instinctively know it.


I apologize for the lengthy reply.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 04:31 PM
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a reply to: 3n19m470



How far weve made it together as a nation is "crap"?

Oh... I didn't know you felt that way. Ok... I'll try to keep my sense of brotherhood with all my fellow Americans a little more discreet, so as not to offend.

Way to go, twisting my words. Clearly I consider the confederate monuments as crap that doesn't need to be on public lands, as the rest of my posts on this subject show. As much as I've spoken about it in excruciating detail over the last month or so, I'd think the context of my words would be obvious. The esteemed OP even said on page 2 that it was my words on this subject that inspired this thread. But go on & keep pretending that I'm referring to all of our history.

And I stand by my response to that specific part of your post above. You said:


If I was black, I would love having that reminded of how far we've made it together as a nation.

I'm saying the crappy monuments don't remind me of how far we've made it as a nation; they remind me of the BS my family tree went through and they remind me that nearly an entire "side" of the political spectrum still honors those traitors.

The same people that complain when black NFL players don't stand for the national anthem turn around and take up for literal neo-Nazis on "free speech" grounds when they're chanting "Blood and Soil" at a "Unite the Right" rally. The same ones who complain when they see Mexican Americans waving the Mexican flag turn around & proudly wave the flag of a hostile nation that killed hundreds of thousands of Americans. I've concluded that they want me to see it this way because they don't even try to hide the double standards.



posted on Sep, 9 2017 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: 3n19m470

Whether you meant it or not, it actually does stand for "Klan Koran". They supposedly used the word "Koran" instead of "Bible" to give it a more mystical/foreign/exotic/occult feeling. And the same way that modern Crips change the first letter in words to show their affiliation, the Klan would put K's in front of words for the same reason.



posted on Sep, 11 2017 @ 06:32 AM
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originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Hazardous1408

See. Historically, political parties were sharply divided by region of the country you lived in. North vs South. So there were two types of Republicans and two types of Democrats. The divisions in this country were more sharply geographical. Now each side has consolidated towards a political persuasion so the divides are along partisan lines, but the problem arises when people who are used to this being the political norm try to apply these political divisions to the past, and it doesn't work that way. Southern Democrats had sharply different beliefs than Northern Democrats, and the same held true for Republicans.


We can't apply today's democrats to democrats of the past, but we can apply today's white people (i.e. Trump supporters) to whites of the past?

Can you point out where I made that bolded argument you are assigning to me? Because that looks like a bonafide strawman that you pulled out of your ass.


Every Trump supporter gets accused of being a racist and a white nationalist and we get compared with the lives of men 150 years ago. Lives nobody today truly knows anything about.

Strawman confirmed. Spare me your persecution complex. I don't care about your imaged woes. Stick to arguments I actually make please.



posted on Sep, 11 2017 @ 06:34 AM
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originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: o0oTOPCATo0o

Don't move the goal posts. The KKK and Nazis are conservative. End of story.


Maybe that's why they don't go around looking for trouble anymore... Once again that belongs to the democrats.

Trouble like driving a car full speed into a group of protestors, killing one? Oh wait that ISN'T looking for trouble to you. Just throwing stones and being a general nuisance is.


Looking for trouble would be Antifa showing up to counter protest a peaceful rally. Thanks for bringing up a great example. That nutjob never would have drove into those people if they hadn't showed up to start a fight. I know you're probably going to skip that part and jump straight to the reaction though.

You seriously think that antifa was the worse offenders on that day? You have been duped... At the minimum, any side that ends up killing someone on the other is by far worse. Lol! "Peaceful rally". What a joke. You are delusional.



posted on Sep, 12 2017 @ 01:41 AM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408
...
Cos the ultimate question is this...
In the year 2017...

1) Who is marching with Neo Nazis and the KKK in "unite the right" rallies...?
2) Who is lamenting Confederate statues...?
3) Who is waving Confederate flags...?

That would be Republicans-Conservatives wouldn't it...

Would it not?
Is that not correct?

But they "never switched", right?
...
Also Mudpit because I reserve the right (pun intended) to throw dirt on your arguments.


Could you show us the millions of Republicans who marched with the Nazis?... Show videos of the millions of Republicans who were all waving nazi flags...

It took a freaking liberal, Jason Kessler to create a false flag by creating "Unite the Right" so that extreme left-wingers such as Antifa and black power groups could claim they were fighting all the "evil nazis" which were a few thousand. But here you are, trying to claim all Republicans are neo-nazis... stfu for real...



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