What God and why?

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Raggedyman

Christianity is not about service to a jealous God, its a response of love to a loving God

I haven't seen any love in your responses to people that have come to your thread. Maybe if you explained yourself better and showed a little patience you wouldn't need to be so snippy.

There there met, I will tread more gently in future
I was afraid I would be acused of patronising people
Dammed if I do, dammed if I dont

I asked a question, what explanation can I offer if I dont have an answer to understand and then answer

a reply to: Raggedyman
To answer your qustions:

1) I am offended by the concept that a god would allow people to have free will then condemn them to annihilation in a lake of fire for following their free will.

2) All controls of religion should be abolished. The will of the church is not the will of a god. If a god wanted someone to do a specific thing then they wouldn't be allowed to do a different thing. A god allowing people to do what they will is to either accept that free will or choose in advance to punish them for behaving incorrectly. That's one thing for a parent, another thing entirely for a god when there are other religions and no proof of any one being correct or even true.

3) The bible says something like, "have no other god before me". I think that allows Christians to have other gods, just to worship the god of Jesus first and foremost. Honestly though, that means there are other gods and most of those other gods don't have anything like eternal damnation so why go with the one that does at all?

4) I have seen arguments for and against free will. I don't think we will ever choose definitely which one is correct from a doctrine of religion perspective. I could be very wrong though, this isn't something I've ever looked into. As a non-Abrahamic type I really don't care whether people think they're doing God's will or their own.

And I know you didn't ask but...
5) Hail Eris, praise Bob!

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
I know what noindens point was about mojo, its wrong, noindens wrong
Christians dont need the church to get to God, thats my point

That was never said in the post you quoted.

I would have never guessed that that was your point.

Cant be manipulated by people you dont need. Get it?

Still, people are manipulated by the church.

Christianity is not about service to a jealous God, you are wrong, honestly you dont know what I am takling about, cos you are wrong, you dont get it

That is your fall back excuse. Yeah, nobody who disagrees gets it.

When I talk about christianity I talk about mainstream christianity, what they teach and what the bible says.

You want to talk about your "denomination" well those are not the ones people are usually complaining about.

Draw your attention to the bolded text

originally posted by: Noinden
Honestly I think it comes down to control. Polytheism or atheism allows you to seek an alternative (other Gods, or your own opinion), and well that is bad when you want to control the masses

So noinden was implying the church or the leadership manipulated the people, yes they do
Though, thats is not what the bible teaches

Noinden was also implying its all about control, christianity is very individual and pesonal, its not a group belief.
Man to Jesus to God
Not Man to Priest to church to Jesus to God

Also, free will allows choice

a reply to: Raggedyman

You know, the posters at ATS are for the most part quite well read. I'm not giving a lesson or writing a book on religions of the world. I made myself pretty clear. You asked a simple question-I answered it simply. Calling me names or putting me down just shows you wanna play troll and I don't play troll. See if you can trigger someone else.

a reply to: mOjOm

Oops sorry, my bad

originally posted by: Raggedyman
What does (do you think) christianity teach that causes offence

Believe in it, or go to hell - those are the only 2 options.

What control does chritianity have that is shouldnt

Faith. Belief in something without evidence. In the real world, you need evidence to be convicted of a crime, not faith. Why does the real human world work on logic and common sense, and the religious world not?

Why cant christians choose another deity if they wish, obviously they wont be christian but is anyone forced?

Uhm... isn't that, like, the first commandment? No other Gods but me? I'd say that's pretty forced.

Christians believe in a creator, who gave free will, and you have a right to excercise that free will, why say you dont

Yes, but that's the catch - they use the 'free will' example to demonstrate to damn you. If you have free will and you choose not to believe in it, you're doomed. So yes, great, we have free will. But if I exercise it how I think we should, based on the observable phenomena around us, and choose not to believe because there is zero evidence in God, I'm going to hell.

a reply to: Raggedyman

You need to read the entire Bible to understand why this was said and by whom.

I respect your Christian faith-just not when you want to pick over words written by men and chosen by other men to form different "Bibles."

But, glad you find peace in your beliefs-just don't expect everyone to believe as easily as you. Some of us spent most of our lives studying, even professionally, world beliefs.

I don''t adhere to any modern christian scriptures-that's my choice.

originally posted by: madmac5150
The key is morality. Christ gave us 2 Commandments; and they transcend EVERYTHING:
1. "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you."
2. "Love each other, as I have loved you."

No, he didn't. The Golden Rule, as it's known, has been recorded in history long before Christ ever said them. Rome, Egypt, etc. They all had similar sayings before Jesus came onto the scene.

Also, that saying isn't divine or mystical. It's common sense. It's what normal beings trying to live together in a society would try to do in order to survive.

How far would our ancient ancestors have got if everyone in the tribe was sh*tty to each other, lied and cheated and killed? No where. We would have died out.

It isn't a Christian commandment -- it's common sense.

a reply to: Raggedyman

The need for salvation is not offencive, if it is why.

Some people believe that the soul (whatever that is) is inherently immortal. They may be offended that some one is offering immortality up as an option.

Other people who do not believe in eternal souls may think that offering immortality up as an option is rather cruel.

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Raggedyman

The need for salvation is not offencive, if it is why.

Some people believe that the soul (whatever that is) is inherently immortal. They may be offended that some one is offering immortality up as an option.

Other people who do not believe in eternal souls may think that offering immortality up as an option is rather cruel.

I'm trying to sleep, but God keeps snoring too loud.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So noinden was implying the church or the leadership manipulated the people, yes they do
Though, thats is not what the bible teaches

Saw it the first time. What you think noinden was implying isn't obvious.

Noinden was also implying its all about control, christianity is very individual and pesonal, its not a group belief.
Man to Jesus to God
Not Man to Priest to church to Jesus to God

Also, free will allows choice

Seems to me noinden was implying how the church has used christianity. Whether that is the way it should be or not doesn't change that fact that that is how the church has used it.

So you are left presenting the logical fallacy; "That isn't real christianity".

originally posted by: Justso
a reply to: Sheye

That's not what The Bible says. It states emphatically "my God is a jealous God." He/she doesn't want you worshipping other Gods. Have you read The Bible? Your comments are completely out of sync with Christianity.

Yes, He is a jealous God because of His love for us ... but He does not want to control us and allows us free will to look into and ponder other ways of thinking about creation and the big " why" to our existence. He is there with welcoming arms when we find our way back to divine truth .

Get really tired of non Christians cherry picking one line out of the bible and trying to apply it to a much more complex issue ,than what it was meant to mean.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
What god would a person choose and why that particular god

A person would choose a god that has similar beliefs to how they feel 24/7.

A warmonger would choose Thor for example.
A farmer would choose Silvanus / Pan.
A female witch might choose Brigit.
A female fighter would probably choose the Morrigan from Irish mythology.
A nasty person playing tricks would choose Loki.
A child murderer would choose Moloch.

Maybe these people are all fallen angels who have realised that they are screwed when Jesus returns. Hence they take mortal form and have to run the gauntlet turning away from their previous master god and back to the ultimate God through His Son Jesus Christ.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Noinden didn't come to this thread. I was reading it before you started this one.

So here is my take on it:

Humans were hunter/gatherers. They had simple beliefs like animism.

Then people developed agriculture and horticulture. The food they grew became the basis for cults. The people who domesticated wheat had Wheat Goddess. The people who domesticated maize(corn) had a Maize Goddess. The temples were actually store rooms. The priests and priestesses (avatars of the gods) told when to plant, when to harvest, when to bring the produce into the storeroom, and distributed the portions to the people who were worthy.

The herding people did not slaughter their own animals for meat. They brought the animals to the priests to be slaughtered. The priest (god avatar) got his cut, and distributed the rest of the meat to the worthy.

People who crossed the priests and priestesses starved. That's religion! That's control!

a reply to: pthena

Now that is context that makes a difference.

And Noinden didn't even single out christianity, he was replying to a post about "Monotheistic Religions" and how they may have started out innocently and were hijacked.

OP came out defending christianity and claiming that others don't understand it, as usual, apparently not even grasping what was being discussed. It is obvious they were talking about those who did the highjacking.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So noinden was implying the church or the leadership manipulated the people, yes they do
Though, thats is not what the bible teaches

Saw it the first time. What you think noinden was implying isn't obvious.

Noinden was also implying its all about control, christianity is very individual and pesonal, its not a group belief.
Man to Jesus to God
Not Man to Priest to church to Jesus to God

Also, free will allows choice

Seems to me noinden was implying how the church has used christianity. Whether that is the way it should be or not doesn't change that fact that that is how the church has used it.

So you are left presenting the logical fallacy; "That isn't real christianity".

How is it a logical fallacy

a reply to: pthena

So why do they think the soul is immortal?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Posted by noinden
but made me think
What god would a person choose and why that particular god

originally posted by: Noinden
Honestly I think it comes down to control. Polytheism or atheism allows you to seek an alternative (other Gods, or your own opinion), and well that is bad when you want to control the masses

What does (do you think) christianity teach that causes offence
What control does chritianity have that is shouldnt
Why cant christians choose another deity if they wish, obviously they wont be christian but is anyone forced?

There is so much false information in society and so many people have no idea commenting on what they dont understand

Christians believe in a creator, who gave free will, and you have a right to excercise that free will, why say you dont

I often wonder why Christians are singled out so often.

Simply because it's simple to understand at a brain level and big enough to believe it's true, because a lot more brains believe it true.

I think the spirit is what evolves the body and brain but the spirit is already evolved. Advanced spirits speed up the evolution process faster. In the Christian religion case, it slows spiritual progress down. But raises material gain fast.

Which is sad.

a reply to: Sheye

You didn't answer the op question.

But, you have drunk the cool aid. Best wishes with that.