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Shoring-Up ObamaCare is NOT Going to Help - Lobby Groups Are Disgusting.

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posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: carewemust

Methinks you don't know what a Ponzi Scheme actually is and are just repeating right wing talking points. At no point are exchanges trying to earn my by recruiting new exchanges below them who pay to the higher ranked exchanges in the pyramid.


OK...What if I use a talking-point phrase from the left wing?

"ObamaCare is the craziest thing I've ever seen!" -Bill Clinton (Summer 2016)
edit on 9/5/2017 by carewemust because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 10:22 PM
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a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

Government subsidies are a large part of that problem. Pulling government out seems the only logical path, ripping the bandaid off if you will. It's a match made in Hades; taxpayer funds, insurance companies, for profit hospitals and big pharma.

As big as our world and potential as a species is, we are reverting. Our food and drugs, our entertainment and supposed education and our safety and security in some ill defined macro sense are all tightening in control around us like a noose at the will of our taxpaying dollars.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 10:24 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: rickymouse
It seems the people receiving the money want more money.


They are scared that the money coming from taxpayers may stop. They don't give a damn about the people who buy health insurance, or the patients who need medical care.


Some do care about their patients. Many doctors also worry about the employment of their co-workers and employees. Is it evil that these doctors and professionals want others they work with to make a living?

We have a conflict of interest in the medical trades which is way more of a contributing factor than doctors wanting to get rich. I do not have a solution for this problem since people need to make a living. I think Trumps idea to bring manufacturing jobs back to America would help to solve this problem, the people can work and make a decent wage producing products our society needs.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 10:30 PM
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originally posted by: kruphix
I guess it's time for single payer...medicare for all.


Almost like that was the plan!!!


Yes indeed, that was the plan alright. The problem was, arrogant Obama believed all the lies that his advisors told him. As the most popular President ever, Hillary was a shoe-in to follow in his footsteps. She'd raise taxes even more and convert ObamaCare into HillBama Universal Healthcare.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 10:36 PM
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originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: kruphix

Yup, 55% tax rate here we come.

To think we'll be able to tell our grandkids when Americans only paid 30% of our income in taxes.

Oh wait, universal health care is FREE. What was I thinking.



Well...53% of taxes paid to Uncle Sam come from those who make over $250,000. Might as well hit that elite earning group even harder. Maybe they'll hire more people and give bigger raises to employees, out of appreciation.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 10:42 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Then why aren't you admitting to the fact that I am talking about? Do you not know what a derivative is? I mean yes costs still went up, but they didn't go up by as much as they were projected to go up pre-ACA. In fact the reduction (in the derivative) is rather significant.
The truth about healthcare premiums: They'd be a lot higher without Obamacare


LOL, I don't think you live in the same place I reside. I live in "the real world" where one day, I had insurance for about $180 a month, and just after the ACA, I mean like the day my policy was terminated, due to the ACA becoming a thing, my rates doubled, and I could no longer afford health insurance. So I paid the $75 a month it costs when you can't afford health insurance.

Bull# stories about "what would have happened" are nice if you are that boneheaded to believe fantasy. So in conclusion, myself, and every other person I have ever spoke with about this topic seems to have the same things to say and experienced the exact same situations. I do realize that things in Obama's ass are completely different and submit that your experiences may vary due to your location.


What you're describing is EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED to millions of people. When the clock struck midnight on 1/1/2013, existing health insurance plans were (mostly) illegal. They had to buy a ObamaCare-compliant policy..complete with mandatory maternity for men, ages 18 - 64. The premium was 80% - 200% higher...literally overnight!



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: carewemust

The only lasting solution is to let the medical market crash, then ditch insurance all together, and build a new health system where patients pay out of pocket. Since at least 80% of long term health issues (like obesity, type II diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and many cancers) are all reversible by diet alone, its time that the patient is held accountable for their own diet related health issues. This would reduce over all costs drastically.

Trump needs to start with an Executive Order to suspend the Individual Mandate tax penalty. Starve the insurance companies. Let the people realize that government is not here to wipe our butts for us.


If patients pay out of pocket, what would the new health system do with patients who can't afford $7,500 to x-ray/repair a broken bone...or the $2,000 in follow-up physical therapy?

The individual mandate penalty was not enforceable before 2017. The government system couldn't tell if you had health insurance or not. If you admitted that you didn't have ACA-compliant health insurance, the IRS couldn't force you to pay the penalty. (They could deduct it from your refund though.)

ObamaCare itself is "starving" the insurance companies. That's why AETNA, United HealthCare, Humana, and several others will not be participating in ObamaCare for 2018.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 11:08 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

The insurance companies are currently posting record profits and they're still complaining about not making enough. Do you really think that if we remove regulations they'll suddenly voluntarily decide they don't need to make as much?


The only few realizing large profits are those who are raking in taxpayer dollars from administering MEDICAID. It's a cash cow for them. Centene Corp., United Healthcare, and Aetna are the biggest winners. All have left the ObamaCare exchanges, because they lost money on the individual health market. They're focusing on the cash cow...Medicaid for the poor.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 11:11 PM
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originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: carewemust whoa dude talk about mis informing people....the federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), 42 U.S.C. § 1395, next time do the work and get the facts straight. And as someone who has my insurance raised 45% over the past 4-5 years I am ok with it. Cause I know that a family in need can get the help. Now go home and be a man and do research then try to pass the class.



What does the EMTALA law have to do with ObamaCare? It has been in existence since 1986 as an unfunded mandate. Illegal immigrants use EMTALA for their healthcare. It's one of the reasons why medical costs, and health insurance costs, started increasing so rapidly. ObamaCare exacerbated that upward movement of prices.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 11:31 PM
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originally posted by: MysticPearl
My wife has a meeting at work where they're going to announce for the third straight year, the deductible will go up by 1K. She has a worse plan than four years ago but the deductible will now be 3K higher. Her premium is also higher. Worse, just about every single issue she's faced over the last three years comes out of pocket.

Some might ask, why isn't she on my plan? Well I'm self employed, and the ACA has screwed self employed individuals even more. I pay over $500 per month for a bare bones plan. The cheapest plan to add her to in my area is $715 per month but worse, carries a 12K deductible.

F all those people gladly putting this on the backs of the middle class along with the self employed and small business owners. You're proudly gutting the middle class while the lower class actually has incentive to earn less to get superior health care. That's right, I have friends who have it worse. They make 50-60K per year and aren't eligible for any breaks/assistance. They pay even more out of pocket and to get better coverage they need to earn even less money, while they're barely making ends meet as every extra dollar they earn is going right into the system as an out of pocket expense.


MysticPearl, your family situation is mirrored by millions of other families all over the country. You work hard, earn a "livable" income, and government-mandated health insurance robs you blind.

Most healthy families in your middle/upper-middle income group have joined a Medical Sharing Cooperative, or have purchased a year-to-year Short Term Medical health plan that's not ACA-ObamaCare compliant.

President Obama saw this trend in 2015 and didn't like it, of course. In 2016 his administration began sabotaging the Short Term Medical plans, in an attempt to force families into ObamaCare. But rather than be "good sheep", these families are now joining the Medical Sharing Cooperatives (in record numbers), or, are buying (dangerous) fixed-benefit policies, or going without health insurance all-together.

All middle/upper-middle class people who are relatively healthy, are very angry...and very disappointed in Congress for not hearing and responding to their cries for help. It's really disheartening when you're lied to by the people you voted for, and donated money to.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 11:44 PM
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a reply to: network dude

Does it surprise you that Jonathan Gruber, the chief architect of ACA-ObamaCare, was recently fired by the state of Vermont, for committing FRAUD against the state's taxpayers?

dailycaller.com...

Actually, this fits his personality. After ObamaCare was signed into law, Gruber was recorded giving lectures where he bragged about putting one over on "stupid American voters". With that success, he had no reason to think that he'd be called out for ripping off stupid Vermont taxpayers.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 11:51 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: carewemust
What should be done, before 2018 Open Enrollment commences on 11.1.2017, to make 2018 health insurance more affordable and benefit rich? -CareWeMust
Get a clue, I'd say.


I know exactly what SHOULD be done ASAP.

1.) Open the individual market so that people can buy the health insurance which fits their needs. No more U.S. government telling them what they MUST have in their shopping cart! Health Insurance companies would flock back to the market like bees to honey.

2.) Anybody who cannot afford to buy a personalized health plan, or can not obtain one due to an existing health condition, can stay with ObamaCare individual plans, or Medicaid if their income is too low.

PROBLEM SOLVED.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 11:51 PM
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originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: carewemust
What should be done, before 2018 Open Enrollment commences on 11.1.2017, to make 2018 health insurance more affordable and benefit rich? -CareWeMust
Get a clue, I'd say.


I know exactly what SHOULD be done ASAP.

1.) Open the individual market so that people can buy the health insurance which fits their needs. No more U.S. government telling them what they MUST have in their shopping cart! Health Insurance companies would flock back to the market like bees to honey.

2.) Anybody who cannot afford to buy a personalized health plan, or can not obtain one due to an existing health condition, can stay with ObamaCare individual plans, or Medicaid if their income is too low.

PROBLEM SOLVED.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:21 AM
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originally posted by: DontTreadOnMe

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: carewemust

We need to have a single provider system and get rid of the insurance companies.


While I can see the value in that idea, we first need to do something to curtail the huge costs and prices of medical procedures, doctor visits and drugs.
And, tort reform.

The lobbyists aren't going to be any less greedy with single payer than they are now!!!!!!!


If the country went to "single payer", the amount of money paid to doctors, hospitals, medical equipment manufacturers, would decrease. Medicare and Medicaid pay these entities 20% to 30% LESS than what they get from Health Insurance.

But, for Single-Payer to work properly, there can't be private health insurance also. The best doctors would stop accepting Single-Payer patients...just like many of them no longer accept ObamaCare, Medicaid, or Medicare. They are so good at what they do, that they don't have to accept reduced reimbursements.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:27 AM
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a reply to: carewemust

Its simple. If the insurance market crashes, and they are unable to cover copays, then doctors and hospitals wont be receiving very many patients on account of the $7.5k x-rays and $2k follow-ups. So doctors and hospitals will be forced to drop their over inflated prices to keep their jobs.

Why does everyone exclude the medical system from supply and demand? If you introduce free market economics, it will become affordable. So our quickest and most effective solution would be to let the insurance market crash.

Its too bad Americans don't have the balls to actually let it happen.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:34 AM
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originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: rickymouse
It seems the people receiving the money want more money.


They are scared that the money coming from taxpayers may stop. They don't give a damn about the people who buy health insurance, or the patients who need medical care.


Some do care about their patients. Many doctors also worry about the employment of their co-workers and employees. Is it evil that these doctors and professionals want others they work with to make a living?

We have a conflict of interest in the medical trades which is way more of a contributing factor than doctors wanting to get rich. I do not have a solution for this problem since people need to make a living. I think Trumps idea to bring manufacturing jobs back to America would help to solve this problem, the people can work and make a decent wage producing products our society needs.


It's not ALL doctors...just some doctors. I know one who is making 3 times more in revenue, because ObamaCare enables him to bill the insurance company 3 times for certain types of visits.

One example relates to an obesity checkup. In just one session, he gets $300 for the physical checkup, $250 for 5 minutes of counseling, and $100 if a treatment regime (diet/exercise) is prescribed. This takes less than 30 minutes. And if the person is an overweight SMOKER, there's more money to be made from the session. This is all FREE from the patient's vantage point, but his health insurance company will pay out at least $550, for the physical and counseling.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:46 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: rickymouse
It seems the people receiving the money want more money.


They are scared that the money coming from taxpayers may stop. They don't give a damn about the people who buy health insurance, or the patients who need medical care.


Some do care about their patients. Many doctors also worry about the employment of their co-workers and employees. Is it evil that these doctors and professionals want others they work with to make a living?

We have a conflict of interest in the medical trades which is way more of a contributing factor than doctors wanting to get rich. I do not have a solution for this problem since people need to make a living. I think Trumps idea to bring manufacturing jobs back to America would help to solve this problem, the people can work and make a decent wage producing products our society needs.


It's not ALL doctors...just some doctors. I know one who is making 3 times more in revenue, because ObamaCare enables him to bill the insurance company 3 times for certain types of visits.

One example relates to an obesity checkup. In just one session, he gets $300 for the physical checkup, $250 for 5 minutes of counseling, and $100 if a treatment regime (diet/exercise) is prescribed. This takes less than 30 minutes. And if the person is an overweight SMOKER, there's more money to be made from the session. This is all FREE from the patient's vantage point, but his health insurance company will pay out at least $550, for the physical and counseling.


My granddaughter just went to the doctor to get three vaccinations for school. The bill for the three vaccinations was right around seven hundred fifty bucks. The tree shots were all around fifty six bucks a piece and each had a little over two hundred dollar apiece charge to administer them. It ran about seven hundred sixty something total. There wasn't even a doctors visit charge on these for that price, the granddaughter did not even see a doctor for the shots that they needed to have. These vaccines are a scam, my daughter only authorized the necessary ones for school, only one of those shots was actually required, the doctor tricked her into believing they were mandatory.



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:48 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest




Its too bad Americans don't have the balls to actually let it happen.

Yeah. Because we should let our parents and kids and sisters and brothers get sick and die and stuff because...well, consider it evolution in action.

Right?

edit on 9/6/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:52 AM
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a reply to: Phage

No, we should find alternate solutions, of which there are many. There will always be cases that require more intensive medical attention, but that doesn't justify piling expenses on everyone else. Pull out a damn loan.


edit on 6-9-2017 by BELIEVERpriest because: typos



posted on Sep, 6 2017 @ 12:53 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I just tried to. To fix my house up. I can't.
My mortgage/income ratio disallows it even though my equity is quite large. So...sell my house? Loose the equity and rent a house at the same cost? Isn't that what insurance is supposed to help keep me from having to do?
edit on 9/6/2017 by Phage because: (no reason given)



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