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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. —Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Originally posted by Nygdan
Originally posted by soficrow
The new American Civil War is being fought in courtrooms around the nation. The Bill of Rights Defense Committee (BORDC) reports that 370 Civil Liberties Safe Zones now exist in the USA. Over 56 million people are legally protected from Patriot Act and Homeland Security measures' illegal disregard of civil liberties.
I don't see how they are somehow above the law in this situation. Federal law supersedes state law, and certainly local resolutions.
Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I think maybe the safest thing to do would be to remove ALL incumbents and dissallow campaign financing of any kind, and electronic voting machines, just for one election cycle until we can adress the numerous problems with both. Any other suggestions?
Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
The Declaration of Indepence makes the legality of an armed revolution very clear.
From the United States Constitution
Article 1, Section 8, Clause 15: [The Congress shall have Power] To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions [...]
Article 2, Section 2, Clause 1: The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States [...]
Article 3, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
Originally posted by Zipdot
The United States Declaration of Independence has no legal bearing whatsoever in America.
In any case, the famous lines in the preamble to the United States Declaration of Independence were merely the opinions of the revolting authors, and their statement in no way makes revolution legal in America. Revolution, by its definition, is not something done lawfully.
Originally posted by Majic
In the United States, armed revolution is legal only if it succeeds.
Otherwise, it is treason.
Originally posted by soficrow
Good stuff Shakyaheir. Than you.
BUT - Do you not think the courts are the best place to start? Or are you saying that's a waste of time and energy?
Originally posted by Jamuhn
All that this really does is make the police within the specific districts not enforce the laws provided in the Patriot Act. In that sense, the citizens are being protected from this law by local or state government organizations. As was said earlier, this does not stop the federal government. Situations such as these where federal cops pursue an investigation that local cops stay away from were the recent medical marjiuana facilities being busted in California.
Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
Originally posted by Zipdot
The United States Declaration of Independence has no legal bearing whatsoever in America.
So I guess legally speaking America is still a colony of England? Well...at least in England's eyes maybe?
Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
In any case, the famous lines in the preamble to the United States Declaration of Independence were merely the opinions of the revolting authors, and their statement in no way makes revolution legal in America. Revolution, by its definition, is not something done lawfully.
I'll give you that, revolution is unlawful to the government against which the revolution is being fought. But you're talking about law in the technical beaurocratic sense of the word. I for one beleive that law has a higher purpose, and once that purpose is violated it becomes law only in name.
Originally posted by ShakyaHeir
So I guess legally speaking America is still a colony of England? Well...at least in England's eyes maybe?
Originally posted by soficrowBush's Brown Shirt Patrols had people scared for a while, so decent people hid quietly and kept their heads down and their mouths shut.
On a different note, there's a lot to be said about the standard of living. It's quite underrated. I speak with young rebels from time to time who tell me about how great a revolution would be. I remind these people that sewage, electricity, water, law enforcement, and all damn kinds of infrastructure will be lost in the case of their ideal revolution.
I say to them that, really, we are infinitesimally close to being precisely where we want to be as a nation - considering our standard of living, our diversity, our justice system, transportation systems, Constitution, freedoms, et cetera. We're just off by a tiny bit - why cause a revolution and all kinds of fuss just to correct a few small problems with the government? I tell them to revolt with their votes. My two cents.
Originally posted by Majic
Getting back to my point, you claimed that “the Declaration of Indepence makes the legality of an armed revolution very clear.”
I pointed out that this was wrong and cited the Constitution in doing so.
If you don't consider the U.S. Constitution to be the law of the land, then that's your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I don't share it, most other Americans don't either, and unilateral declarations on your part of what laws govern this nation are neither binding nor authoritative.
If you do consider the U.S. Constitution to be the law of the land, then you are just plain wrong to claim that armed revolution is legal in this country, because the Constitution specifically empowers Congress to call forth the Militia to suppress insurrection and goes so far as to define the crime of treason (the only crime actually defined by the unamended Constitution) in a manner which most definitely includes taking up arms against the government.
I'm not sure what makes this so difficult to understand.