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Ancient Mysteries, Just-So Stories...

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posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 09:41 PM
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Civilization began through the influence of agriculture. It was agriculture, and the power it could claim over the lives of others, that the magical cults of the ancient world can first trace their origin.

The first consistent usage of agriculture - that is, mass production of a particular resource, in particular, wheat and barley - appears in the archeological record around 11,700 years ago, with it becoming a regular staple-product 8000 years ago in various city states, up until the formation of the major kingdoms with the beginning of the old kingdom in Egypt and Sumer in Mesopotamia.

However planned this may seem, and however much people today, particularly here at this site, imagine just-so stories about aliens giving mankind technology, the most likely explanation is one that is consonant with the laws of biology, which in turn emerge out of the laws of physics; namely, autocatalysis:

“They [centralized states] appeared independently around the world wherever ecological preconditions allowed, in the Old World as well as in the Americas and across a wide-range of environments from the alluvial floodplains of Egypt and Mesopotamia to the highlands of the Andes. Defying this considerable diversity of context, the best-known among them developed into strikingly similar entities. All of them witnessed the expansion of hierarchies in different domains, from the political sphere to the family and religious belief systems – an autocatalytic process whereby “the hierarchical structure itself feeds back on all societal factors to make them more closely into an overall system that supports the authority structure.” Pressures in favor of increasing stratification had an enormous effect on moral values, for the residue of ancestral egalitarianism was replaced by belief in the merits of inequality and acceptance of hierarchy as an integral element of the natural and cosmic order.” – Walter Scheidel, The Great Leveler, pg. 44, Princeton, 2017

What the human being was doing was practically identical, albeit, at a much higher emergent level of personified meaning, the autocatalytic transformations that underlie cell formation, with molecules feeding into the cell and into its self-structuring process in terms of the establishment of relationships between external resources, and internal chemical time-tables.

Humans cannot help but drum up theories; and the more complex, the 'more' true they seem, the harder it can be to pull away far enough to consider the likelihood, perhaps, that you may just be believing what you feel you need to believe to feel better.

Wheat and the Demon Dagon



Now, unlike many academic scholars, I am interested in addressing what human beings, especially the educated ones, address: namely, metaphysics, magic, and mysticism, or said differently: the representational dogma about how reality works, the methods employed to manipulate that reality, and the experiences used to describe the very gradations of that reality.

I assume, in other words, that an 'oral' tradition suffices to communicate and pass on complex representational systems of thought that aren't necessarily required to be put into print. Indeed, it would be naïve to think Plato, or Aristotle, or Thales, who is said to have given "philosophy" to Greece, developed their thinking in a void. Rather, there has always likely been a pronounced philosophical complexity in the ruminations of civilizations 'elite' class, even if that class hadn't yet developed the means to encode their thinking in alphabetical writing systems.

So what is Dagon?



I mention this ancient god of fertility because of the strange association between agriculture, which is what was offered to him as sacrifice, and a fish, which is transformed into a head, similar to the hat worn by the pontiffs of Rome, as well as the crowns of the Pharoahs of Egypt.

Fish live in the sea, that is, below the water. The traditional interpretation of water is the unconscious, or 'what lies below' conscious awareness. Thus, the fish with its head upwards and mouth wide open is a symbol of something in the unconscious receiving nourishment from without.

Indeed, and quite appropriately, it is wheat - the very wheat which has made the elites able to store and build up a surplus resource, that is, the very process that gives a small number of humans an advantage over the whole, which is given as an offering to the god dagon: the demon, or evil impulse, which motivates, and perhaps, aids the machinations of the ruling classes modus-operandi.

Symbolic Creatures, Symbolic Warfare



So the story goes, Arunah the Jebusite lived in a town called Jebus. Historians believe that the very site which Arunah officiated at, and the later David built his precious temple, was dedicated to the god Dagon, the fish god.

So the question to be asked - by a scientific mind, that is, is: is this site really special, or is it just a matter of human beings ascribing meaning to a location, and then coopting the site, one after the other, in such a way as to infuse the site with a subjectively "real" significance to the human's semiosis.

Dagons temple switch over to the Temple of YHWH; of course, this, judging from the etymological nature of YHWH, was probably a switch from demon worship (dagon) to the worship of being, because the 3 letter Hebrew root of this term means, "to be".

In any case, I am not interested in mysticism or any just-so stories about God's will in reality (all of which are probably psychodynamic projections) but only how the human mind has projected meaning onto a physical place, and literally, to this very day, this site serves as a primary loci in human social and cultural relations.



Indeed, if mysticism, and the human penchant of trusting/believing in the power of revelation over reason, is to be a judge, next year will mark the 70th year of Israel's founding, and given what 70 signifies to kabbalists and occultists, there is a good chance that much of what we are going through right now - with Trump and his 'coming' in the Hebrew year 777 (reminds me of Crowley's Liber 777), and the 'liberty' it portends for those who do not subscribe to any laws of nature, will probably reach an extreme point in May 2018 when the religious fundamentalists in Israel idealistically pursue their perfect square temple, despite the raucous chaos it will unleash in the region, and in particular, between Muslims and Jews/Christians.

Anywho, Food for Thought!

My writing is always done from the perspective of someone with a deep skepticism about religious thinking i.e. theology, but also a deep belief in the goodness of human beings - who do not mean to be crazy maniacs; we can't help but be what nature is - or where nature currently has us.




posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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Thanks for the food, eating and ingesting now.

Thank you for insight .





posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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Excellent . Please continue.....
(placeholder for me to return to as well)



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 10:37 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

I've seen this representation that you say is Dagon to be Oannes in Hancock's "Fingerprints of the Gods."


Oannes in Mesopotamian mythology, an amphibious being who taught mankind wisdom. Oannes, as described by the Babylonian priest Berosus, had the form of a fish but with the head of a man under his fish’s head and under his fish’s tail the feet of a man. In the daytime he came up to the seashore of the Persian Gulf and instructed mankind in writing, the arts, and the sciences. Oannes was probably the emissary of Ea, god of the freshwater deep and of wisdom.
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Also, since the discovery of Gobekli Tepe aren't we re-thinking the establishment of civilization based on agriculture idea?

Lastly, can't a place or a thing have an intrinsic value and/or a value based solely on the mind of man? If that's the case, why would one value be better than the other?



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 12:43 PM
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It's interesting to think how hunter-gatherers could switch to food agriculture. Probably when it becomes winter, they need to stay in one place and build shelter from wood and mud. They need firewood so need to create trees. That creates clearings. They harvest berries but despise thorns, cactii and other weeds so pull those out when they can. Gradually those meadows become fields of berry trees. Then they started building paths and walls to keep predators and foraging animals out. Stones become useful for containing fires and making walls to contain domesticated animals.



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 08:03 PM
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History is a fascinating subject but how it is interpreted is quite another story.

When it comes to the Holy Bible or any other of the great works and how the writings words are interpreted today? Well what was the last time you read a dictionary from ancient time periods in human history? Six to ten thousand years ago the human population numbered somewhere between 1 to 10 million people (for the sake of discussion) word wide. Research indicates that the last major Ice Age ended in a violent event and despite the claim of Noah's flood having occurred within the 6000 years time line. Conditions at the time would have put an oceanic shore line much further than it is today.


With respect to the issue of Yahweh and so on.. We could be addressing the matterof Punctuated Equilibrium in relation to Evolutionary theory. So when it pertains to the human condition. Humans are born, that reflect potential avenues that pertain to, in potential, a more evolved state related to development.

To be succinct we have not stopped evolving yet.


edit on 1-9-2017 by Kashai because: Content edit



posted on Sep, 3 2017 @ 01:35 PM
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Dagon was just a fertilizer brand.


1000 years from now they will be asking "who were these gods, Pepsi, Monsanto, and Justin Bieber?"



posted on Sep, 3 2017 @ 11:32 PM
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a reply to: BigBangWasAnEcho


That Bible makes it very apparent that one day your remains could also be used as Fertilizer.


Just a thought.



posted on Sep, 4 2017 @ 12:48 AM
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Wouldn't a better mystery be the remains of ancient proto Religions are redundantly used by most religions to date? Like the Swastika before Hitler used it, and it supposed appearance in various places, which apparently was a symbol of peace.

Then you get trees in a few stories, like Eden, or the Nordic world tree with serpent of various size on them? Buddha, had a thunderous elephant in his room, when three sisters of fate presented them selves, under a tree?

In two of the avatars of Vishnu, one form was a giant glowing fish, and the other a turtle that spins a giant ocean with all the devas an titans to aid in the epic, and could Anzu tries to change his fate only to be destroyed by god like it were a leviathan while playing a little flute like Pan.

Fish have spines, so what?
edit on 4-9-2017 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2017 @ 02:10 AM
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a reply to: Specimen


The really funny part of this is reading threads from members who complain about Religion, based upon their Rudimentary knowledge of it.

To be honest I especially get a really good chuckle out of it every time it happens.


Further reading...

www.quora.com...
edit on 4-9-2017 by Kashai because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2017 @ 02:27 AM
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a reply to: Specimen


So do you think that the real problem with the world is that 86% of Earth population thinks 14% are A$$....?

Seriously there are inquiring minds that want to know?

Any thoughts?

edit on 4-9-2017 by Kashai because: Added content



posted on Sep, 4 2017 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: Kashai

There always a bigger fish waiting to eat a fat cat that was trying to catch smaller fish.



posted on Sep, 4 2017 @ 04:33 PM
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a reply to: Specimen


Well at least you have a sense of humor


The Op seems to be describing an almost Orwellian perspective in relation to how consciousness should function. The knowledge of the intricacies and clock work nature of biology at the cellular levels was applied to Psychology and Psychiatry. You many know it better as Operant Conditioning as relatable to the works Burrhus Frederic Skinner.


In the 50's this was the primary model used in Psychiatric facilities while today it is no longer used at all in any such programs world wide.

A good example of the reasons for why is Willowbrook State School.



edit on 4-9-2017 by Kashai because: Content edit



posted on Sep, 4 2017 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte


See in relation to a "just so story"? The model that you seem to be promulgating is really no different.

edit on 4-9-2017 by Kashai because: Content edit



posted on Sep, 4 2017 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: Astrocyte

I mean seriously you do not know about this????

edit on 4-9-2017 by Kashai because: Added content



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