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Trump ending DACA this week according to sources...

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posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: pavil

When Congress returns from their long Summer Vacation, they'll only have 40 working days the rest of this year, and a lot on their plate.

I wager that they will seize up. Between the Democrats obstruction and the work-load, Congress will maintain their reputation as "Do Nothings".


Oh..they will continue funding the financial hole that Obama dug, by raising the debt ceiling.



Of that I have no doubt. With Healthcare being the same way, most House members will have to actually get stuff done if they want to be re-Elected.

Overall Carewemust, is that compromise offer something you can live with?


edit on 1-9-2017 by pavil because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Amazing how they can ask for help on this but not the ACA or Tax reform? Don't ya think?



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 12:08 PM
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originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: pavil

When Congress returns from their long Summer Vacation, they'll only have 40 working days the rest of this year, and a lot on their plate.

I wager that they will seize up. Between the Democrats obstruction and the work-load, Congress will maintain their reputation as "Do Nothings".


Oh..they will continue funding the financial hole that Obama dug, by raising the debt ceiling.



Of that I have no doubt. With Healthcare being the same way, most House members will have to actually get stuff done if they want to be re-Elected.

Overall Carewemust, is that compromise offer something you can live with?



If you're referring to the legislative compromise/fix proposed by Paul Ryan, I'm for it. I'm always for whatever is best for Children. They're more important than the billion dollars of aid that we send to ungrateful nations. (ie Pakistan)



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: carewemust

Amazing how they can ask for help on this but not the ACA or Tax reform? Don't ya think?


It's politics driven by human nature. Who is "they"?



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: pavil

When Congress returns from their long Summer Vacation, they'll only have 40 working days the rest of this year, and a lot on their plate.

I wager that they will seize up. Between the Democrats obstruction and the work-load, Congress will maintain their reputation as "Do Nothings".


Oh..they will continue funding the financial hole that Obama dug, by raising the debt ceiling.



Of that I have no doubt. With Healthcare being the same way, most House members will have to actually get stuff done if they want to be re-Elected.

Overall Carewemust, is that compromise offer something you can live with?



If you're referring to the legislative compromise/fix proposed by Paul Ryan, I'm for it. I'm always for whatever is best for Children. They're more important than the billion dollars of aid that we send to ungrateful nations. (ie Pakistan)


Explain to me what you think the fix proposed by Ryan is? It's not what you think it is. Some of these "children" are 30 years old that are covered in DACA

edit on 1-9-2017 by pavil because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Ryan and Friends...sorry.



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: matafuchs

That sounds like a terrible sitcom where the dog ate everyone's homework. Anyone bring a plan? No ?
Let's go raise money.



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: matafuchs

That sounds like a terrible sitcom where the dog ate everyone's homework. Anyone bring a plan? No ?
Let's go raise money.


I keep looking on the internets for this supposed fix they've been just chomping at the bit to implement. I don't see any details........ Just like Congress. We have a solution! What? You want to see it? One second.......



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 03:33 PM
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This is about as close as I've been able to see is what they are talking about

Four different options have been introduced in Congress, including two bipartisan solutions led by Sens. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, and Dick Durbin, an Illinois Democrat. Another proposal from Florida Republican Rep. Carlos Curbelo has entirely Republican support and is expected to be introduced in a similar form in the Senate by North Carolina Republican Thom Tillis.


Still haven't seen any details about any of those even though CNN has a big article on how Ryan is going to save the Dreamers.


edit on 1-9-2017 by pavil because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 07:40 PM
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Congress approval is at about 8%. I mean, if I had a review and i got a 8% I would be in the welfare line.



posted on Sep, 1 2017 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: pavil

Just wanted to provide a link of where my "go after employer" comes from.
www.foxnews.com...



posted on Sep, 2 2017 @ 07:38 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs

My wife, first generation immigrant who is not a US citizen yet says HALLELUJAH!



posted on Sep, 2 2017 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
Congress approval is at about 8%. I mean, if I had a review and i got a 8% I would be in the welfare line.

The problem is that there are two different approvals. One for Congress as a whole which is meaningless, and one for the specific person. People all think THEIR guy is good, it's everyone else who is bad. You don't need to convince people everyone is good to get reelected, only that you are.



posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 07:35 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
The president is far more than an executer regardless of the title. He is a leader. Through leadership people follow. Or not...they abandon you as we are seeing

Any monkey can stamp or veto documents.

(sorry for the late response...took the weekend off from ATS, per my usual)

Yes, the president SHOULD BE a leader, but when I make comments like I have on this thread, I do so looking strictly at the job title and his mandated performance, not the performance that we've come expect from a president.

With that noted, I have never thought that Trump is a good leader--like 3NL1GHT3N3D1 keeps trying to incorrectly argue, Trump is not a dictator, but he approaches things much more from that angle than a good leader, at least in as much as his presidency goes (although I do think that he has had a few good moments of leadership, but they've been few and far between and haven't resulted in much of a measurable outcome).

Personally, though, I appreciate his "leadership" style, even if it has bad PR repercussion, because he knows what results that he wants, even if he doesn't have all of the details addressed or ironed out, and that's exactly how a president should be, IMO--he should be focused on results more than detailed propositions.

I fully understand that he's more than an a approval/veto stamp, but at the end of the day, constitutionally speaking, he's here to do just that, along with provide directives to executive agencies and to ensure that the government is enforcing and conducting business within the confines of the constitution and other laws. What he doesn't have to be is a friend to the press, a friend to Americans, a friend to people in other branches or his own, and a friend to the world. While some of those aid in a smoother presidency, they are not bullet points in the job description that I've ever seen.

Scrutinize him all that you want--everyone does with every president--but just keep expectations and desired outcomes within reason. It's like someone (or just me...don't know) has said: If you don't have expectations, you'll never be disappointed.




posted on Sep, 5 2017 @ 07:53 AM
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originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: SlapMonkey

You're the one who said he's the CEO of our government not me. If he's not a dictator then he's not a CEO. A CEO has a board of directors that gives him advice but in the end it is the CEO's final say.

Right, and the president has advisors and Congress and SCOTUS.

But, see, with a dictator, there's no peaceful option to remove a CEO for a board of directors, or a dictator for other branches of a government (assuming that there is more than one), yet CEOs can be voted out of a company by the board, and the president can be removed from office as well, presumably through Section 4 of the 25th Amendment (although that's never been tested and probably never will be).

Of course, neither courses of action would ever be taken lightly and used on a whim, but the reality is that they exist. Dictators are only overthrown by hostile takeover.

Are you tracking now, or are you still not seeing my point? Regardless, there is a massive difference between a CEO and a dictator, and I hope that you can see the difference by now.

(sorry that my response is so late)



posted on Sep, 10 2017 @ 07:58 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

I don't know if I agree with your personal opinion of a president. I prefer the jfk's to the Johnson's.

In my opinion Trump is a lot like LBJ. Scarily so. Where as a leader like JFK can inspire the public to do more on their own, as well as inspire them to vote for people who have more positive impact.

Trump in opinion is a fraud. He may want results but how is that different than any other human being? What makes him a capable president? At some point you need to one surround yourself with good people (by the exits of his cabinet I would say a fail) and inspire through leadership.

However he chooses divided and conquer, much like LBJ and he chooses ceo style pressure to get results. It only works if it works. If it doesn't work he just comes off as a useless idiot.

The daca thing I can understand to put pressure on congress. If it doesn't work however he just screwed a lot of people.

I am working on a thread I may or may not finish on how many employers have been caught smuggling labor into the US. The numbers are very bad. Many people were also forced into slavery and employers were involved. IMO if a Corp wants to be a person they should also be jailed for serious offenses like human rights and human trafficing. Like can't operate Tyson foods in at least the branch caught when they get caught smuggling labor (which they have been caught already)

Many people assume it's completely the Mexican laborers fault. Well what do you do with people smuggled here against their will and forced to work as slaves? I think deportation would be very much against the values of the enlighten Era philosophies.


I apreciate all your dialogue regardless of any rebuttal I may give. The one reason I choose to comment is it can actually help develop my own ideas when discussing with rational people. So I don't mean to come off as attacking you.

edit on 10-9-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: SlapMonkey

The daca thing I can understand to put pressure on congress. If it doesn't work however he just screwed a lot of people.

Well, I put the culpability on these people's parents and on Obama giving them a temporary pass, not Trump for reverting back to the rule of law.

Yes, Obama's policy knowingly screwed many people in the future (he knew that it wouldn't last, although I bet that he assumed that it would have persevered through a Clinton presidency), but it had to happen at some point, because we cannot ignore the law without going through the proper channels to change it.


Many people assume it's completely the Mexican laborers fault. Well what do you do with people smuggled here against their will and forced to work as slaves? I think deportation would be very much against the values of the enlighten Era philosophies.

There's an unhealthy mix of the two--human trafficking and willful illegal immigration. The less that we enforce the laws, though, the more that I think that it tips the scales in the side of human trafficking, and that's a much bigger issue that willful illegal immigration, for sure.

I'm with you, though--I don't think that we have any other choice than to grant amnesty to those covered by DACA, but after we do, we need to ensure that this type of debacle doesn't keep happening (which I think that we both know that it will).



I apreciate all your dialogue regardless of any rebuttal I may give. The one reason I choose to comment is it can actually help develop my own ideas when discussing with rational people. So I don't mean to come off as attacking you.

I don't feel attacked, and I appreciate all of our dialogues, even if they may not align some of the time. Best regards (and apologies for the late response again)



posted on Sep, 11 2017 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: SlapMonkey

This happened over thirty years not under Obama.

During gwb a poultry plant near where I traveled in texas was caught smuggling labor. It's been going on a long time. Some of these people are also literal slaves.

IMO the punishment when you get caught human trafficking should be the most severe possible. It doesn't seem you grasp the cause of this which was jobs. Jobs with no people to fill and jobs that have been exploiting labor since before Steinbeck wrote about it.

Also some fleeing violence in their countries. It's a massive problem and I can't see how the labor should be the focus. Other than clean up the process to get temporary visas for migratory work and labor shortages and a pathway there is literally no way to stop it or deal with the people here. You have to make employment verification mandatory.

I couldn't even go to Norway the socialist utopia and start working like you still can today in the us. Right now you could go to Dallas home depots and job sites and round up probably tens of thousands in that city alone. Yet they are making arrests?

It's like putting up sandbags to stop a leaking pipe.

Which oNE gives you more bang for your buck cracking down on employers and mandatory verification with fines or going after illegals one at a time who can't pay for their processing?

With employer crackdown you get a lot of self deportation.
edit on 11-9-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: luthier

You want to talk about Steinbeck, I grew up for 19 years in Bakersfield, California--I understand what and where Steinbeck wrote about, and in those 19 years in the San Joaquin Valley, I witnessed the families and living conditions of migrant workers (most of whom are illegal immigrants or, like you say, basically slaves/endentured servants). I fully comprehend the jobs aspect of it, but that's another discussion altogether.

DACA is an Obama policy that protected certain children of illegal immigrants against the standing immigration laws of the federal government. Being an executive policy, it was as temporary as the next president deciding that we would go back to the rule of law.

So, to claim that DACA and its aftermath isn't an Obama thing is disingenuous.

Those fleeing violence have legal means to enter our country. Those pursuing jobs have legal means to enter our country.

There is a way to impeded (never a way to stop) this flood of people illegally entering our country, and it starts with appropriate law-enforcement measures instead of turning a blind (although heartfelt) eye to the very laws that help curb the problem.

I'm all for employer crackdown as well, which is part of the law enforcement (there are already laws against hiring illegal immigrants, at least to the best of my knowledge) aspect that I just mentioned. But it doesn't have to be one or the other--you have a section that investigates employers and you have a section that patrols for smaller groups or individuals. But either way, Obama doesn't really matter at this point, except that he created a compassion issue where one didn't necessarily exist by (unconstitutionally, IMO) ignoring immigration policy temporarily.

What that has done to these people is absolutely not fair, and the same with what their parents did by bringing them in illegally, but the reality is that we need to either enforce our laws, or change them via the legislative process, but when we dick around with them via executive action, it solves nothing.

Have you seen the movie, "Born in East L.A.," with Cheech Marin? It's pertinent...and funny.

Damn, old movie trailers were really bad.


edit on 11-9-2017 by SlapMonkey because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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I don't think most of the people commenting on DACA really know what DACA is or has done.

Curious what the removal process will be for the estimated 10,000 immigrants here on DACA that are currently enlisted and in active military service, one of the required options to obtain the DACA protections.




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