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The only people who want Socialism are people who don't produce

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posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: redhorse

Is the VA in that bad of shape, or is that the media telling you to think that? I know there are stories, but there are stories from all systems where idiot providers do stupid things.

The info that is out there points to a US system as a profit driven system that is no better than it's counterparts in other countries.

We got here as a result of crony capitalism. I do not see a change in the system til it collapses.




posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Depends on your area some VAs are decent a lot of them are garbage.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:52 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

Medical will be solved only after a collapse. The corps are too powerful and our system is not effective to curtail this sort of monopoly.

There is only one way to fix the medical system. Outlaw insurance, and pray you don't need any medical help for about 2 years.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

It honestly doesn't matter.

Ideas of "The VA is single-payer" are nonsense.

The idea of single-payer is all inclusive, not exclusive.

To put on a number on it, this means 321,000,000 American's in the same pool, is what 'Single-payer' means. Anything else is anecdotal evidence.
edit on 29-8-2017 by CarlsBad because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

What about trying something like the swiss?



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:56 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: redhorse

Is the VA in that bad of shape, or is that the media telling you to think that? I know there are stories, but there are stories from all systems where idiot providers do stupid things.

The info that is out there points to a US system as a profit driven system that is no better than it's counterparts in other countries.

We got here as a result of crony capitalism. I do not see a change in the system til it collapses.


Veterans accounts and a Congressional Committee reports. I don't care what the media says. If anything they underestimating the problem. There are accountability issues with the VA that need to be addressed; although I do think there is definitely a profit motive issue, there is also a bureaucratic black hole. That is an potential issue with single payer, to pretend it isn't is inviting disaster. One needs to be cognizant of the pitfalls.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:57 PM
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a reply to: luthier

The US is #1 in health care costs.

The powerful corps own the media, the media tells us that is bad.

And the powerful corps pay HUGE $$$ lobbying to keep this bag of poop rolling.

There is no reason for out health care to cost at the least 2X the next industrialized country. People who think it is OK have their heads in the sand.




posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: CarlsBad
a reply to: seasonal

It honestly doesn't matter.

Ideas of "The VA is single-payer" are nonsense.

The idea of single-payer is all inclusive, not exclusive.

To put on a number on it, this means 321,000,000 American's in the same pool, is what 'Single-payer' means. Anything else is anecdotal evidence.


I think your confused for good reason it's confusing.

Single payer means the government pays.

Universal means everyone is in the pool.

You can have universal without single payer.

The Germans I believe do three employer, employee, and government.

The Swiss make insurance and pharmaceutical operate non profit but still compete.

Lots of ideas. The good ones seem to be purposely avoided. It's either die on the streets or everyone gets a free humpback whale at the dentist here in the US. Apparently those are out leaders only ideas.
edit on 29-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

The whole loby process is the problem. Remember oBama , Romney? That was like a billion each just run. How can we fix anything with senators calling for dollars most of the week.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:01 PM
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a reply to: luthier

No. You're confused.

Single Payer means the insurance pool is a single collective. This is what it has meant since Obama.

So naturally, a "Single-Payer" VA is anecdotal evidence of a system on a smaller scale.

The largest single-payer account would be the most interesting, but would still be anecdotal, and not technically single-payer at all.

The only reason single-payer is associated to the Government is because they would be best suited at collecting a universal pool of money.
edit on 29-8-2017 by CarlsBad because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:01 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I'm open to doing anything the Swiss are doing.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: CarlsBad

Obama didn't invent it. And single payer means a single payer. It's about the finance.


Universal is the pool. You can pay for universal health care. People do all across the world.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: luthier

Universal Healthcare doesn't imply a single insurance pool. It implies access.

Single Payer does. (A single holder, and payer of subsidy)

And Obama is why it's relevant. ObamaCare was not fanciable without single pool subsidy.

Better allocation of subsidy means more access by default, this is where you're mistaken.
edit on 29-8-2017 by CarlsBad because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I wonder where the point of the average family saying F-it and they opt out of the insurance scam is?

This is not rocket science, other countries do it. The only solution I hear is offering insurance across state lines will solve this. It won't.

The for profit hospitals charge more, insurance premiums go up. It is that simple. Single payer controls costs-our system exploits people who need help. And the cycle is almost over.
edit on 29-8-2017 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: redhorse

We should all just have the same insurance that our elected officials have.

And for a lifetime, just like theirs. Whether we work or not. They love it so much, it must be grand.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:15 PM
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a reply to: CarlsBad

Again single payer only means 1 payer. 1 financer. That financer is the government. It's the worst possible situation when they keep a for profit insurance provider at the same time.

Universal health care countries make it a requirement to be covered. So yes technically it does not have to be one pool but as a nation or state that is usually the case when universal health care is the law. In Switzerland you even have to buy your kids their own plan. Literally every person has there own separate health coverage.

Universal means everyone has it.

Single payer means one financer.
The rest is the specifics of the logistical operations pd whatever system the single payer is using.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:20 PM
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a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

You wouldnt want it. Their health plans require human sacrafice. Dick Cheney is on his 5th orphan's heart.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: luthier

What happens when someone doesn't want it?

What happens when what you need or want isn't covered by it?



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:24 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko


Like any use of force in the social contract you get fined. What happens when you want to go 60 mph instead of 35?

If who doesn't have it? You can buy any extra insurance you want but the base line is required to keep the population from endlessly complaining of the cost since the pools are too small.
edit on 29-8-2017 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 10:24 PM
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Socialism for our needs

Capitalism for our wants




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