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The only people who want Socialism are people who don't produce

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posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:19 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

I feel that way but I still don't want free stuff. I just want the government and business to separate so the people can have a say in legislation again. It's never been perfect but billion dollar campaigns like Romney and Obama is just obscene




posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Well technically our form of capitalism has to act as a governmental philosophy as it guarantee's rights. The other takes them away.

I mean whoever has fought to have rights taken away?


China, Soviets, North Korea, Venezuelans, Iranians, Nazis... oh wait...



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:19 PM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

LOL I never once said China has more money than the US. I pointed out that they're the most productive country on Earth in at least 8 or 9 different categories, that they have the 6th most amount of millionaires, and the 2nd most amount of billionaires. Those stats were to disprove the claim that China is some poor place. They also helped show that socialism clearly allows private property & that the claim that "only non-producers want socialism" is completely wrong. How does your post dispute anything I actually typed?

Not to mention, if you're going to show those stats to prove yourself in this imagined pissing contest, why not also show companion stats like cost of living, healthcare costs, debt per household, inflation, retirement age, etc? If you make twice as much money as I do yet all of your expenses are 4 times more than mine, who's the real "winner" here? That's why our economy is so reliant on debt; people have to bridge the gap in income & rising costs by borrowing. Actually, you don't have to answer this paragraph because it has nothing to do with my original point, which is that the OP is wrong. lol
edit on 29-8-2017 by enlightenedservant because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

What if there was universal basic income ONLY for those who put in a mandatory 5 days of hard work for society...

An income "floor",

Accompanied by a "income ceiling"
Whereas any income earned by an individual or organization that surpasses said "ceiling", would flow into a fund, where certain councils and/or the public, would vote on distribution of said fund...
Ie.. Crowd funding new projects that universal basic income recipients have spent their free time working on starting..

This would alleviate obscene wealth hoarding and class disparity.

And keep people who are receiving UBI, to be productive.

I wish to emerge a blend of capitalism, socialism in a meritocracy/technocracy that meets all our needs



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Again , most of the reasons China is where they are is the major corps of the US moved all (or most) production to China. Why you may ask ? The cheap , slave labor of your "socialist" design


Race to the bottom is socialism?



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:24 PM
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first, I would like to point out that many of the colonies had their own programs to help the poor in the communities, funded by taxes..

when my kids were young and I was working in a printing company, after hearing the latest information about the new insurance policy that we were all being offered, I went to my boss and asked him how much it would cost to enroll my kids in it...
he suggested I enroll them in the gov't child health program because there was no way I'd be able to afford it on what I was earning.
you don't think that he was kind of happy that this program was there for him to refer me to instead of just telling me, sorry, you are sol, and risk having me turn around and saying well, then I guess I need to find a job that is paying me more money???
you don't think that walmart isn't happy that the food stamp program is around to not only feed their employees but also enable many of their customers to buy their products?
you don't think that people aren't glad that medicare and social security is around when their parents become unable to work or end up needing 24/7 care?
you don't think that those who hold the rental properties in this country don't love the fact that hud pays the rent for so many?
you don't think that all these child care centers are glad that the gov't is providing funds to mothers so they can work when the alternative would be probably charging $1.00 an hour?
you don't think that doctors aren't happy that there's medicare and medicaid, chips when the only other option would be to either accept whatever the people could pay for their services or have alot less people to serve?

heck, the biggest benefactors of these programs is the business sector and the wizards of wall street!



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:26 PM
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originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Again , most of the reasons China is where they are is the major corps of the US moved all (or most) production to China. Why you may ask ? The cheap , slave labor of your "socialist" design


You can repeat that 1,000 times & it still won't prove the claim that "only non-producers want socialism". If anything, it seems to prove that the socialist & communist workers in China work more than the supposed capitalists in the US, since they work longer hours & for less pay.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: prevenge

Ubi isn't socialist at all. Especially if everyone gets it. Libertarians economiats like Hyak have suggested such things, even Milton.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:28 PM
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originally posted by: jkm1864
I always noticed that the people whom would get free healthcare was always for it where as the people whom would pay for it were against it. The best part is the first group would call the second group a bunch of racists for no wanting free healthcare when they are the ones that have to pay for it.


Right now the middle class is carrying most of the burden for health care and paying the most for their own health care.

I'm middle class. I suppose you are right. I'm all for free health care, for everyone. Between the tax burden I'm carrying AND the health care burden I'm carrying (literally, both of these things together are eating nearly 60% of our income), I would be grateful to shoulder just one of them instead of both.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:28 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Are you saying that wanting socialism and producing more are somehow the same?

Do you think people living in China would rather work in their working conditions and own nothing or come to the US and own something and feel like their hard work was for something?

Why are you trying to say that producing more has anything to do with wanting socialism?

Are you saying the Chinese factory workers want the system they work under?



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:29 PM
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a reply to: toysforadults

People in France and Germany also produce more.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:31 PM
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a reply to: redhorse

Everyone always wants free health care. The dirty little secret is that it will never be free. Someone will always have to pay for it.

Even in socialized health care countries, they all pay for it. They just prefer to think they don't because they don't directly fork over money to their health care providers.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:34 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: redhorse

Everyone always wants free health care. The dirty little secret is that it will never be free. Someone will always have to pay for it.

Even in socialized health care countries, they all pay for it. They just prefer to think they don't because they don't directly fork over money to their health care providers.


Yes, and if the wealthy would pay their share for that health care, like they do in those countries you speak of, it would be possible. But, they never will in the US, so it's a pipe dream really, and so I guess that someone is me. I'll have to keep slogging away and hope I can afford medical care for our collective chronic conditions.

It's crap and you know it's crap.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:36 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant
wouldn't it also show that american businesses prefer socialism over actually having to pay workers a decent livable wage wage also?



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:37 PM
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a reply to: redhorse

By any metric single payer is much better at providing affordable quality health care. The US health care consumer spends double of the nearest industrialized nation.

Private health care insurance is privatized socialism.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:41 PM
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originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: redhorse

By any metric single payer is much better at providing affordable quality health care. The US health care consumer spends double of the nearest industrialized nation.

Private health care insurance is privatized socialism.


It's not just single payer that does it though, it's just one ingredient. The VA is single payer and it is an unmitigated disaster. There are other social systems that need to be in place to make it work. I don't know if that is possible in the US. Such a mess, and it's burying us.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

You mean chosen socialism vs government mandated?

I like the idea of choosing.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:44 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: redhorse

Everyone always wants free health care. The dirty little secret is that it will never be free. Someone will always have to pay for it.

Even in socialized health care countries, they all pay for it. They just prefer to think they don't because they don't directly fork over money to their health care providers.


It goes beyond that though with pricing controls and ethics.

For instance in the US per the NEJM 50 percent of drug trials can't be reproduced. Largely due to fraud and conflict of interest. 50 percent of drug trials and diagnosis couldn't be reproduced.

That is from for profit medical system where the share holders dictate policy and returns are forced from failed drug development.

There was a set of stories about diagnosing early childhood bipolar where the treatment and diagnosis was false. It went out in journals and everything. The fda covers most of it up or washes their hands because of equipment and patent deficits for testing.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:46 PM
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a reply to: seasonal

Socialism/Marx wasn't theorized around the idea of insurance, but actual products of an economy.


A true socialist economy would have no need for insurance for one,

for two, applying Capitalism to insurance creates it's own form of inflation, so it's not sustainable and will always create a bubble.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 09:47 PM
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originally posted by: prevenge
a reply to: toysforadults

What if there was universal basic income ONLY for those who put in a mandatory 5 days of hard work for society...

An income "floor",

Accompanied by a "income ceiling"

If you're going to require people to work, why would you still utilize a currency? Money would be useless at that point if the fruits of our labor are distributed properly.



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