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The only people who want Socialism are people who don't produce

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posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

The first federal tax was put in place in 1861, then the current version in 1913 and people have been grabbing ankles since then but you are waiting for a breaking point?

Sorry but my money is on dying before I see the elimination of FICA.

As a citizen of a third world country I can say that you have no idea what you are talking about. Sink or swim without big brother is what makes these places a bit less "civil".
edit on 30-8-2017 by daskakik because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:00 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Yes, but they did "grant" the ability to amend the Constitution with the understanding that a growing nation would require changes to the original plan based on 13 members.

But, we've been here before...



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:04 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

Don't fret, I know what it means. Anyone can say the word, even if they refuse to back it up.


Yep, you've been demonstrating that the entire discussion.

You can't move far beyond dictionary definitions (even though you don't seem to know which one) and basic parroting "techniques."

We're here for you though LesMis. I'm sure you feel better now that you've attacked someone who's too nice to really give it back to you.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:08 PM
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This isn't entirely true. There are some people who produce who are just foolishly idealistic and don't understand that Star Trek utopia policies don't work in our real world of today. The only way socialism works is in a society where everyone is altruistic and wants to pull their own weight. That's not the world we live in, trying to enact policies based in feel good fantasies isn't productive.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:10 PM
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originally posted by: MOMof3
You and Les could live like Kings.


I have no desire to be a king, I simply want left alone.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:10 PM
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I would hazard a guess that all of us who are American and are posting here have been born and grown up in a US that has been structured around many of the basic aspects being complained about here ... income taxes, social safety nets, public education, national infrastructure, not to mention a ridiculous militarization that puts us (at least expense wise) ahead of the next what ... 6 countries in the world combined?

It is literally unimaginable to think of what the US would be as a mere collection of small satrapies, all acting as sovereign states controlled by the very wealthiest citizens of each state, who, as we know under more capitalistic systems, are the masters of both industry and government.

There are a thousand small aspects of our lives that have only been possible with the exact mixed economy and distributed government that so many carp about.

Every dime made by every American here has been made in concert with the actions and sacrifices of the rest of us.

Collectively.
edit on 30-8-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:13 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



Yep, you've been demonstrating that the entire discussion.

You can't move far beyond dictionary definitions (even though you don't seem to know which one) and basic parroting "techniques."

We're here for you though LesMis. I'm sure you feel better now that you've attacked someone who's too nice to really give it back to you.


Aah double standards and hypocrisy, the life-blood of socialists. I think you invent your morality just like you do your definitions.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
Every dime made by every American here has been made in concert with the actions and sacrifices of the rest of us.


Was it you operating the teleprompter for Obama's "you didn't build that" speech? It sure sounds like the same BS he spouted.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:15 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66



Yep, you've been demonstrating that the entire discussion.

You can't move far beyond dictionary definitions (even though you don't seem to know which one) and basic parroting "techniques."

We're here for you though LesMis. I'm sure you feel better now that you've attacked someone who's too nice to really give it back to you.


Aah double standards and hypocrisy, the life-blood of socialists. I think you invent your morality just like you do your definitions.



And more ad hominem and nonsense from you ... pure fallacy coupled with zero meaningful evidence.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Every dime made by every American here has been made in concert with the actions and sacrifices of the rest of us.


Was it you operating the teleprompter for Obama's "you didn't build that" speech? It sure sounds like the same BS he spouted.


It's not BS as you well know. You haven't done a single thing in your life "all on your own."

You like to think you have, but you haven't. You have been the beneficiary of everything every American helped to create that came before you.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:19 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

The wealthy only rule us when we allow it. A good step towards curtailiing this is to do something about Smith Mundt being repealed, and Citizens United.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Gryphon66

The wealthy only rule us when we allow it. A good step towards curtailiing this is to do something about Smith Mundt being repealed, and Citizens United.


I'd have to cite that first sentence as mostly idealistic, although I certainly think it's important idealism. If we were really living in a confederation rather than our republic, there would be an even higher likelihood that most States would be oligarchies at best.

You won't hear any complaint from me about getting rid of Citizen's United.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Every dime made by every American here has been made in concert with the actions and sacrifices of the rest of us.


Was it you operating the teleprompter for Obama's "you didn't build that" speech? It sure sounds like the same BS he spouted.


It's not BS as you well know. You haven't done a single thing in your life "all on your own."

You like to think you have, but you haven't. You have been the beneficiary of everything every American helped to create that came before you.


I bet I'm closer to it than you are. There's a reason I live in the most remote, primitive, and wild state in the US. I believe in human beings. If the hand holding went away and took the artificial barriers and penalties for success away with the hand holding, I believe we'd see Americans thriving the way they did when this entire nation was a crown jewel waiting to be plucked.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:40 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
not to mention a ridiculous militarization that puts us (at least expense wise) ahead of the next what ... 6 countries in the world combined?


I know I'm nitpicking here but this particular thing drives me nuts every time I see someone bring it up.

The US is indeed #1 in military expenditures on a strictly dollar for dollar basis. That's great, except pretty much every other thing we compare country to country isn't compared dollar for dollar because of the difference in size of economies. There are more sensible ways to compare anything money related between countries, such as per capita or as a percent of GDP.

So let's try it:
How much more does the US spend than everyone else on our military per capita?
Actually, we're not even the top spender on that scale. We're 4th, and we actually spend about 1/3rd of what the top spending country, Saudi Arabia, does.

Well what about as a percentage of GDP? The US must be sky-high on that scale too right?
Wrong. As a percentage of GDP, we hang out around 11th depending on the year.

These are easily found on Google and Wikipedia but the raw data is kept here.

Another common misconception that floats around is that we spend something like half or 60% of our federal budget on our military. This is flat out false. It actually amounts to between 15 and 20% of our federal budget, again depending on the year.

There's a pretty good read on all of this here if anyone is interested.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:42 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Every dime made by every American here has been made in concert with the actions and sacrifices of the rest of us.


Was it you operating the teleprompter for Obama's "you didn't build that" speech? It sure sounds like the same BS he spouted.


It's not BS as you well know. You haven't done a single thing in your life "all on your own."

You like to think you have, but you haven't. You have been the beneficiary of everything every American helped to create that came before you.


I bet I'm closer to it than you are. There's a reason I live in the most remote, primitive, and wild state in the US. I believe in human beings. If the hand holding went away and took the artificial barriers and penalties for success away with the hand holding, I believe we'd see Americans thriving the way they did when this entire nation was a crown jewel waiting to be plucked.


That's because one of your fundamental beliefs is that anyone who doesn't agree with your politics is probably less-motivated or less successful than you. What a silly thing to say! You don't know me or what I've done from Adam. Just as I don't know YOU as an individual, but I know that even in the several options for "remote and primitive" in the US, unless you're logging or trapping or fishing for your living ... you are a part and parcel of the system in which we all participate.

If the "hand-holding" went away? The "artificial barriers and penalties for success"? Wow that's some great empty rhetoric there; I'd love to hear your plan for competing in the 2017 marketplace with 1792 ideals.

Or, are you talking about the 1950s when the highest income tax rate was 91%?

Provide some concrete detail; I hear your passionate belief and really, wish I could see the logic in it.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66




And more ad hominem and nonsense from you ... pure fallacy coupled with zero meaningful evidence.


Aah double standards and hypocrisy, again and again. If only you had the stones to abide by your own standards, which are subject to the tyranny of your feelings.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: face23785

So, while those quantative measures do give different rankings ... are you sure that, say "per capita" consideration does anything BUT that?

I.e. if we look at the "per capita" nations above us, are we going to see real martial powerhouses?

1. Saudi Arabia
2. Singapore
3. Israel

Hmmm ... while I would say that the Israelis are pretty bad-ass on their own terms ... do you think this way of looking at the issue really tells us anything aside from relative population sizes? Would Saudi have the funds to be in the number one spot without our help? Would Israel? And Singapore .. really? Do they have a military?

Okay how about military spending as compared with GDP (top three).

1. Oman
2. Saudi Arabia
3. Algeria

Hmmm.

Why would we want to look at it this way again? What does this analysis tell us?

edit on 30-8-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:56 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66




And more ad hominem and nonsense from you ... pure fallacy coupled with zero meaningful evidence.


Aah double standards and hypocrisy, again and again. If only you had the stones to abide by your own standards, which are subject to the tyranny of your feelings.


LOL, as you make another zero-content post, rhapsodizing about me. Always good to hear from a fan though.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: burdman30ott6

That's funny. What are you doing on the most social Enterprise the world has ever known. When you unplug I'll believe that.


edit on 30-8-2017 by MOMof3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 05:01 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

It tells us that we're not spending excessively on our military when you consider practical matters like the size of our economy, the size of our population, or our geographical footprint.

Pretty simple.




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