Antifa Leaders Upset Media Focused On Their Violence

Confirmation of the same here from the UK - we knew if it bleeds it leads and enganging in violence would solve nothing and destroy the entire message we were sending out and entire purpose would be completely lost on entertainment tv.

Seeing the US turning that into having to create an organised wing to conduct public relations, press conferences aka propaganda designed to justify violence and have some kind of brand identity is the very antithesis of what we took beatings for.

Using violence would only be acceptable when all other options were exhausted - we wouldn't dare to insult the international brigades legacy and sacrifice.


"The march had started with Mussolini and had gained terrible momentum with Hitler and was being carried forward by Franco. For most young people there was a feeling of frustration, but some determined to do anything that seemed possible, even if it meant death, to try to stop the spread of fascism."
Jack Jones (Liverpool docker who joined the International Brigades and later became the leader of Britain’s biggest trade union, the Transport & General Workers’ Union)

"But when I shook hands to leave, an Anarchist worker / Said: 'Tell the workers of England / This was a war not of our own making / We did not seek it. / But if ever the Fascists again rule Barcelona / It will be as a heap of ruins with us workers beneath it.'"

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: Guyfriday

Because Fascists use "Violent tactics" doesn't mean all violence is fascist

That really doesn't answer the question though. While I appreciate your statements of non-violence, the question has to do with tactics. Specifically:

"political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties"

Just saying that violence doesn't equal fascism doesn't really explain the ideology that is driving the antifa movement.

originally posted by: Guyfriday
Just saying that violence doesn't equal fascism doesn't really explain the ideology that is driving the antifa movement.

Anti-fascism/Anti-authoritarianism.

What is exactly driving their current actions can only really be answered by those involved, though. I suppose they do have a right to defend themselves.

But, tbh, I do wish they'd just put themselves in the firing line (Peterloo style). Is a much more effective message (:

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: Guyfriday

The end goal of "Antifa" is stopping the rise of fascism/neo-fascism and its supporters, apologist, and enablers.

But, like I have been saying, "Antifa" is a decentralized Free association group of individuals that synthesis for certain actions, the majority are anarchists, but there are Marxists, Leninists, Maoists, and Socialist... and now recently other people who just join in

Individually we have our own goals and 'end game' and when we synthesise we fight as individuals (anarchists, M/L/M's, socialist etc)

Where has antifa actually made their stand?
A couple cities in Cali? Boston?
It's not like you've gained any ground, anywhere you stand is a left leaning liberal stronghold anyway.
Shut down in Phoenix.
Try stepping outside of liberal sanctuaries, and see how far antifa gets.
Fact is, they won't show, cops won't step down for them, and they would be met by plenty who disagree w/ them.

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

dude, first off totally offended, secondly you are incedibly homofrickenphobic

you seriously need to lay off the steroids and get out of the gym and realize that not everyone is like you ok?

Sorry I didn't realize you were a member of gay Isis... So sorry.

BTW its not a sexual term gay means happy....

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: Kettu

No "Proof" but some people will believe anything that fits their narrative while denouncing others as "Fake News"

What if someone came on Television and said they were the leader of the Nazi's and claims that Trump is funding them, would they believe it because a so-called "Leader" said it?

If there's no leadership then how do you know where to gather, what to bring or what you stand for? Is it your position that Antifa is a "hive mind"?

Sounds more like a Laissez-faire type of leadership really. How much in-fighting and struggle for control is there? To not have anyone in a group that feels as if they should lead would create a chaotic environment of complete oppression. Do those that speak on behalf of Antifa, as in the video, get reprimanded or beaten down because of doing so? What happens if someone, as the person in the video seems to have done, steps up and proclaims themself a leader and others continue to follow?

It would seem that an uncoordinated group such as Antifa, would have as much turnover as the restaurant industry as far as "membership".

Either way....its not working and will likely end in anyone associated with Antifa being regarded as a domestic terrorist at some point in the near future.

I look at Antifa as mostly uneducated utopian dreamers that have a misguided anger problem at their own lives, outwardly and incorrectly applying that anger to anything else they can so they don't look inward.

If truly leaderless then they are the ultimate in irony of misguided youth. Still funny to watch though. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Arrest anyone that gets in front of a cam and speaks for them.

Speaking for a group makes them the de-facto leader, I'd say.

They'd have to explain how they aren't and point a finger at who is.

"I am Spartacus!" lol, ya right.

a reply to: Guyfriday

The only movement "Antifa" has is to stop fascism, apologist, and sympathisers. it is not a 'political party' it is not trying to seek any kind of political power, the only thing "Antifa" is for is stopping fascists and fascism.

now, again, as I have stated the people that make Antifa are a mixture of anarchists, communists, socialist, and as of recently other people.

as individuals, we have our own goals and movements e.g for us anarchists, anarchy, and not everyone who uses Black Bloc tactics are Antifa, that is what i am trying to explain to people

a reply to: xuenchen

They shouldnt have leaders. Thats how your movement gets taken over and ends up serving the status quo.

They are a violent force. All those years of beating people senseless is hard to overlook.

Where the hell are the real ANTIFA people? Are you all dead or just pussies now that you cant take back what was built and stolen from you?

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: Guyfriday

The only movement "Antifa" has is to stop fascism, apologist, and sympathisers. it is not a 'political party' it is not trying to seek any kind of political power, the only thing "Antifa" is for is stopping fascists and fascism.

now, again, as I have stated the people that make Antifa are a mixture of anarchists, communists, socialist, and as of recently other people.

as individuals, we have our own goals and movements e.g for us anarchists, anarchy, and not everyone who uses Black Bloc tactics are Antifa, that is what i am trying to explain to people

I think the bolded part (done by me, not XAnarchistX) is where I'm getting lost. When you have a group using the name brand of antifa (if you will) and these groups within the group all have their own agenda, then it's actually impossible for anyone to really say what the groups end game is.

I like to thank you for your candor on this topic, but since you can really only speak for the faction of antifa that you identify with it makes it nearly impossible to really know what the name brand of antifa is really standing for.

I remember when compartmentalized members of "Anonymous" used to say there were no leaders either. Then they started organizing. Then they organized enough to go protest Scientology.

Then they kept organizing. Then people started noticing some of the same people popping up around different groups trying to organize things. Then the rumors started floating around about who was running the "independent groups" when people started getting arrested.

All these little groups band together but they can't even agree on which system needs to be taken down. It's the patriarchy, no it's the capitalism, no it's the police-state, no it's the feds, no it's just Trump, no it's society as a whole (moronic paleo-anarchists)... They don't even have a real team so they suck onto other small groups to make them feel like some kind of functional unit.

And by a functioning unit I mean running into people with their arms at their sides like five year olds yelling, "I'm not hitting you", standing in the road blocking traffic, breaking things, playing with urine and fireworks... Man, they really are children.

Leaders... lol. The tallest kid on the playground is still a kid. Unless that kid is actually a spook I guess.

a reply to: Noncents


I would give you applause for that post if could, since I cannot I will just say ...nice ...

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: yuppa

No, Fascism is an Ideology, Violence is a tactic, fascists use violence to install fascism

Well, whether or not the goal is Fascism proper or anarchy, the use of violence to silence, intimidate, and subdue others is abhorrent behavior, much like toddler do in a daycare, or the military industrial complex does on a global scale.

And when you hide your identity while doing it, it makes you much worse than the toddlers I just cited. No matter what the end goal, your and your group's tactics are pathetic tantrums that, sooner than later (hopefully sooner) will meet up with actual trained citizens who will not stand for this garbage, or police forces whose balls aren't in a vice grip by some politically correct mayor or city planner who will treat your group the way that they should be.

Your silly games are going to continue escalating until there are more deaths than just one woman getting killed by a Nazi in a car--I guess that's okay, though, because anarchy?

The reality is that you're trying to quiet dissenting voices and using violence and intimidation to do so. You are no better than a Fascist regime, no matter how you try to lie to yourself.

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: Guyfriday

The only movement "Antifa" has is to stop fascism, apologist, and sympathisers. it is not a 'political party' it is not trying to seek any kind of political power, the only thing "Antifa" is for is stopping fascists and fascism.

But therein lies the problem--Antifa (you don't need quotes, they're an actual thing) is in capable of actually discerning true "fascism, apologist, and sympthisers" from just people with whom they disagree. They (you?) run around like little children carrying homemade shields and masks and just want to pick fights, hopefully enticing the other side to strike first so that you can claim even more victimhood.

Like I said...the butt of most people's jokes.

as individuals, we have our own goals and movements e.g for us anarchists, anarchy, and not everyone who uses Black Bloc tactics are Antifa, that is what i am trying to explain to people

But when you run with a bad crowd, you are seen as part of it...and you make this statement as if throwing your tantrums, but not being part of Antifa, makes it okay. You're still lawless idiots bent on destruction and chaos, and you'll reap your rewards soon enough if you keep it up. I suppose that doesn't matter to you, but don't be surprised how quickly the numbers of your "movement" dwindle when people start going to jail...or worse.

a reply to: Guyfriday

There is no brand name, or at leat shouldn't be - jutst a shared goal to do everything possible to stop facism. The fight in the spanish civil war was the central ethos - and the heroes are celebraeted every year in the UK for their great sacrifice. While European governments sat back and watched while Hitler, Musolini, Franco took other - volunteers made of anarchists, communists went to defend the republican democratic government in Spain with 45,000 volunteers from 54 different countries with 500,000 anti facists died in "Their determination and valour in support of democracy and liberty is a legacy that will endure."

"It was not until I served with the British Medical Unit in Spain that I learned the true meaning of the word comradeship. For the last few months I was with a mobile unit on the Aragon and Teruel Front… We were bombed and machine-gunned from the air; we were continually bring forced to retreat… we had no means of heating in the bitter cold of the winter; we had to deal with as many as 200 cases a night, and we sometimes worked in the most appalling conditions for 40 hours at a stretch."

---
One of Spain’s leading campaigners for justice for the tens of thousands of victims of Franco’s dictatorship will address the annual commemoration this Saturday (5 July 2014) for the British volunteers who fought in the Spanish Civil War as part of the legendary International Brigades.




Emilio Silva will attend the gathering on London’s South Bank to speak about the obstacles faced by families seeking information about the fate of their parents and grandparents in the aftermath of the 1936-39 conflict and the dictatorship that lasted until 1975.



Silva co-founded Spain’s Association for the Recovery of Historical Memory (ARHM) in 2000 after running into official indifference and hostility while trying to find out what happened to his grandfather, a supporter of the Spanish Republic who was murdered in October 1936 by Falangist (Spanish fascist) gunmen in the province of León.



The ARHM has organised excavations and exhumations from mass graves throughout Spain, and has given evidence to the United Nations about the unsolved and uninvestigated disappearance of thousands of Republican supporters.



The UN’s Committee on Enforced Disappearances is currently looking into the legacy and consequences of the crimes of the Franco era.



Organised by the International Brigade Memorial Trust, the commemoration in London will take place next to the International Brigade memorial in Jubilee Gardens (off Belvedere Road, SE1) from 1pm to 2pm. The memorial is dedicated to the 2,500 volunteers from the British Isles who defended the elected government of the Spanish Republic against Franco, Hitler and Mussolini. Of these, 526 gave their lives during the war in Spain.



Wreaths will be laid by, among others, representatives of the Catalan Government Delegation in London, Spanish exile and refugee groups and the Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women.



In his latest book, “The Spanish Holocaust”, historian Paul Preston calculates that at least 150,000 Republican supporters were murdered or executed by death squads and military tribunals during the Spanish Civil War and in the early years of the subsequent dictatorship.



Preston will be among the speakers taking part in the commemoration in Jubilee Gardens, along with former trade union leader Rodney Bickerstaffe. There will be music from Na-Mara and Maddy Carty.



Only one British veteran of the International Brigades survives: Stan Hilton, a former merchant seaman from Newhaven, Sussex, who now lives in Australia in a nursing home near Melbourne.

------------

In July 1936 a military rising was launched in Spain by a group of military generals aiming to overthrow the Republican government, elected only five months previously. Though initially successful in many parts of Spain, opponents of the rising- working people, trade-unionists, members of political organisations from the centre to the left and, in some cases, members of the Civil Guard and the new Republican police force, the Assault Guard- took to the streets, erected barricades, and confronted the insurgents.

Faced with determined opposition the generals saw that their rising was in real danger of being defeated. With their best soldiers, the elite Army of Africa commanded by General Francisco Franco, trapped in Morocco, the Rebels turned to fascist Italy and Nazi Germany for assistance. After some initial hesitation, both Hitler and Mussolini sent help to the Rebels, crucially providing aircraft to ferry the Army of Africa across the strait of Gibraltar onto the peninsular. Once across the strait, the Army of Africa rapidly headed north, leaving a trail of slaughter and destruction in their wake. Within weeks Franco's forces were approaching Madrid, where they united with the rebel army of the north, led by General Mola.

Desperate pleas by the Spanish Republican government for assistance from the European democracies of Britain and France fell, overwhelmingly, on deaf ears. Terrified of the prospect of a wider European conflagration, and convinced that appeasement of Germany and Italy was the best means of preventing it, the European powers chose not to intervene, nor even to provide military support to the Republican government. Instead, an agreement was made not to intervene in the conflict, to which Britain, France, Germany Italy, Portugal and the USSR all agreed to adhere. However, it quickly became apparent that the agreement strongly favoured the Rebels, who continued to receive assistance from Germany and Italy, despite the non-intervention agreement.

Appalled at the prospect of another European country succumbing to fascism, supporters of the Spanish Republicans government from around the world flocked to its aid. To these anti-fascists, Spain was the latest battleground in the European war against fascism, and Spain offered a chance to, at last, to check its advance. At the same time, the Comintern and the USSR, fully aware of the extent of German and Italian assistance to the Rebels, chose to provide help to the Republicans. In addition to the military help sent from the USSR, the Comintern (the Communist International) took on the role of organising the volunteers for the Spanish Republic, many of whom had already arrived in Spain. Over the coming months, these International Brigades of foreign volunteers would fight and die alongside the Spanish Republicans in their determination not to let the fascists pass. Madrid, its defenders declared, 'would be the tomb of fascism'.
------------------

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: yuppa

No, Fascism is an Ideology, Violence is a tactic, fascists use violence to install fascism

Well, whether or not the goal is Fascism proper or anarchy, the use of violence to silence, intimidate, and subdue others is abhorrent behavior, much like toddler do in a daycare, or the military industrial complex does on a global scale.

And when you hide your identity while doing it, it makes you much worse than the toddlers I just cited. No matter what the end goal, your and your group's tactics are pathetic tantrums that, sooner than later (hopefully sooner) will meet up with actual trained citizens who will not stand for this garbage, or police forces whose balls aren't in a vice grip by some politically correct mayor or city planner who will treat your group the way that they should be.

Are you aware you've just insutled half a million Europeans who volunteered to fight hitler, musolini, franco and the holocaust whiel the rest of the world was happy to support them? Without them Facism would have taken over the world. Literally.

They were the people who stopped Nazis, while you're defending them - read your history of the 1930s in Europe please. Anarchsists, communists, unionists, general working mean and women risked death to make it to Spain and defend the replucan democratic government from military take over - so please stop spitting on the graves of the people who gave you liberty as you soudn just like the Nazis in 1930s Europe.

originally posted by: bastion
Are you aware you've just insutled half a million Europeans who volunteered to fight hitler, musolini, franco and the holocaust whiel the rest of the world was happy to support them? Without them Facism would have taken over the world. Literally.

No, I didn't, that's just your use of a logical fallacy to try and make me out to have said something that I did not. But, I can't control how you want to read into my comment, but rest assured that I speak what I mean, and I called out these current Antifa fools here in America and nothing more. I never once brought anyone in the historic Antifa movements from Europe into the comment that you cite--you did that.

They were the people who stopped Nazis, while you're defending them - read your history of the 1930s in Europe please. Anarchsists, communists, unionists, general working mean and women risked death to make it to Spain and defend the replucan democratic government from military take over - so please stop spitting on the graves of the people who gave you liberty as you soudn just like the Nazis in 1930s Europe.

Again, you brought in the historical aspect of the Antifa movement, not me. I was not talking about them, and to be fair, my grandfather drove "Priest" tanks on behalf of America in WWII to fight National Socialists and Fascists, and following in his footsteps, I served in the military and happened to be stationed in Germany for 3.5 years of my service.

I'm not spitting on the graves of anyone, you're just using an appeal to emotion to try and get me to stop talking about this modern, asinine, immature Antifa movement in the U.S., and I will not stop calling out the stupidity. If you want to defend them, have at it--I don't care who you defend--but don't be one of these people on ATS who misrepresent what people are saying and then berate them when they didn't say what you think.

That is willful ignorance, and it's easy to deny.

To be fair, though, you are seemingly equating what those who fought against real Fascism did to these children here in the U.S. fighting some fascist boogeymen; on one hand, you have a people fighting against government-led and sponsored and endorsed Nazi-ism and Fascism, and on the other hand, you have the American Antifa people. Not the same, not the same adversary, and not the same reality. Justifying what these Antifa people in the U.S. are doing by saying/implying that they are the same as those who did what they did in Europe under the Antifa double-flag is disrespectful and a completely inappropriate comparison.

Try harder if you really want to take it upon yourself to accuse people of doing things that they're not doing, otherwise, just stop.

a reply to: Guyfriday

The end game of 'Antifa' is anti-fascism.

anarchists are inherent 'Anti-fascists' being that fascists are authoritarian, most if not all insurrectionary and Revolutionary tendencies are inherent 'Anti-fascists' but, anarchists and communist and socialist have always argued and disagreed on many things, under the name 'Antifa' these groups were able to synthesise for one purpose against fascists or the threats of fascism.

That being said, with the increase of Medi attention, and potential Liberal co-opting and hijacking for political opportunism and manipulation, there is concern that Antifa will fall into a populist movement, being co-opted by Liberals and those that will purchase a flag online and start posting social media pictures etc

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: bastion
Are you aware you've just insutled half a million Europeans who volunteered to fight hitler, musolini, franco and the holocaust whiel the rest of the world was happy to support them? Without them Facism would have taken over the world. Literally.

To be fair, though, you are seemingly equating what those who fought against real Fascism did to these children here in the U.S. fighting some fascist boogeymen; on one hand, you have a people fighting against government-led and sponsored and endorsed Nazi-ism and Fascism, and on the other hand, you have the American Antifa people. Not the same, not the same adversary, and not the same reality. Justifying what these Antifa people in the U.S. are doing by saying/implying that they are the same as those who did what they did in Europe under the Antifa double-flag is disrespectful and a completely inappropriate comparison.

Try harder if you really want to take it upon yourself to accuse people of doing things that they're not doing, otherwise, just stop.

Agree with you on all that, the modern US style is a perversion and insult to the movement over in Europe.

However it is true that the US is facing the same threat - many of the 5000 facists in training and being equiped by Russia to create the fourth reich in Europe are already in the US doing the same - the FBI, CIA have raised the terror level to immediate threat recently.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Far-right extremists in Germany are joining forces with like-minded groups across Europe and even the United States as they prepare to carry out more attacks, the country's intelligence chief has warned.

He added: "We are trying to investigate these cells, if they exist, and to prevent any attacks."

www.telegraph.co.uk...

22 million Americans support neo-Nazis, new poll indicates. Nine per cent of Americans say holding neo-Nazi or white supremacist views is acceptable, according to a new poll.

Survey was conducted in the wake of deadly violence which ravaged Charlottesville www.independent.co.uk... ml


Dale L. Watson
Executive Assistant Director, Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence Division
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence
Washington, DC

The organisers of Charlottesville and self declared 'alt right' creator are also members of the russian- kremlin movement -

The alleged ties between the administration of President Donald Trump and Russia are currently the subject of intensive media scrutiny. But perhaps less well known are the connections between a Kremlin ideologue described as “Putin’s brain” and key members of the U.S. alt-right and white supremacist movement, including those behind the Charlottesville protest.

Alexander Dugin is a Russian ultranationalist and former adviser to Sergei Naryshkin, a key member of Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party who was appointed Russian foreign intelligence chief in 2016. Dugin supports Orthodox Russia’s role as a bulwark against what he has portrayed as the decadent forces of the liberal West.

In Europe, the story is different, with Neo-Nazis in Germany reportedly recruited by Russian intelligence via martial arts clubs, and Hungarian neo-Nazi István Győrkös, who shot dead a police officer last October, running paramilitary training camps for right-wing extremists alongside Kremlin officials.

In a blog posting Tuesday, former NSA analyst John Schindler explained the appeal of Russia to the U.S. far-right.

"Although our country has always had white supremacists, Russia has given them renewed focus and energy, as well as a ready-made worldview. This take on the world includes overt white nationalism which despises the United States as a decadent and multiracial society," he wrote.

www.newsweek.com...

So there is a genuine need for antiFA in the US.

a reply to: bastion

SO the russians who helped EUropean ANTIFA(original and good) Are now trying to Use the new biyatch boy ANTIFA USA to overthrow the US government.

the OG ANtifa we need not the new puppets of the russians.

Its sad to see how many young people are stupid enough to be used by fascist to disrupt or destroy a government the people mostly want. This is so Russia can rule the world.

When and IF russia wins they will then crush and kill the same morons who helped them win. ANTIFA USA are truly fools to do their bidding.

Putin's Russia is a group of homophobic nationalist racist right-wing authoritarians.

They are funding and aiding other right-wing authoritarians across europe and the US.

Antifa and anarchists challenge right-wing authoritarianism.