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Harvey, now proof that AGW is real? Stupid GOP.

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posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 02:05 AM
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originally posted by: jkm1864

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: network dude

I believe the argument is that climate change contributes to severity. Not that it caused the hurricane.

www.theguardian.com...



Yeah those evil cows keep farting and making the weather worse. I think it's high time that someone sticks a cork in their butts so We can save the earth.



Agriculture is a major contributor to climate change.

Thanks for the reminder.




posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 03:18 AM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: network dude

I believe the argument is that climate change contributes to severity. Not that it caused the hurricane.

www.theguardian.com...

Allow me to shoot that one down.
First there has been even stronger hurricanes way previous to this one . The problem with this one was the rain and the stalled hurricane. This was caused by a large high pressure front that was stationary in the path of Harvey.
Now , do you want to argue global warming on the high pressure vs.low pressure fronts ? You cant have both stemming from the same causation.


The fact that there was stronger hurricanes before does not invalidate the premise that climate change can make hurricanes more severe.

The article states that increasing moisture in the air caused by increased average temperatures make the affects of hurricanes worse.

Read everything I said. Not just one line....



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 05:44 AM
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originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: network dude

I believe the argument is that climate change contributes to severity. Not that it caused the hurricane.

www.theguardian.com...

Allow me to shoot that one down.
First there has been even stronger hurricanes way previous to this one . The problem with this one was the rain and the stalled hurricane. This was caused by a large high pressure front that was stationary in the path of Harvey.
Now , do you want to argue global warming on the high pressure vs.low pressure fronts ? You cant have both stemming from the same causation.


The fact that there was stronger hurricanes before does not invalidate the premise that climate change can make hurricanes more severe.

The article states that increasing moisture in the air caused by increased average temperatures make the affects of hurricanes worse.

Read everything I said. Not just one line....


The rest of your post did not seem relavent to the point being made.

However since you mentioned it I am not sure you are correct about climate change and conflicting areas of high/low pressure.

Isn't one of the effects of more rapid climate change the creation of more stable areas of pressure that can block weather systems?

Sure someone with a better understanding of the mechanics can explain it better.

Not really relavent as I don't believe that relates to this storm. The argument from the article is that increased atmospheric moisture content made the levels of rain fall worse.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: soberbacchus
a reply to: ScepticScot

The Gulf of Mexico has broken all historical records highs for water temperatures this year.

Heat feeds Hurricanes. It makes the wind faster and the storm larger.






Do you have a link?


I assume anyone questioning the simple facts would be able to find the evidence for themselves?

It is basic measurement and science, not politics.

But I will assume the best that you can't find the numbers and thus will support my claims with just a few sample links, as there are a TON..

"The Gulf of Mexico has broken all historical records highs for water temperatures this year."

MARCH 2017
Gulf of Mexico waters are freakishly warm, which could mean explosive springtime storms






They spurred a historically warm winter from Houston to Miami and could fuel intense thunderstorms in the spring from the South to the Plains.

In the Gulf, the average sea surface temperature never fell below 73 degrees over the winter for the first time on record, reported Eric Berger of Ars Technica.



LINK

MARCH 2017
For the first time, the Gulf of Mexico didn’t fall below 73° this winter

LINK

Report: 'Freakishly warm' water in Gulf of Mexico could signal severe spring storm season
LINK

FEB 2017


SINT MAARTEN/CARIBBEAN – “This has been a winter of records across much of the United States. First and foremost, ocean water temperatures across the western Atlantic are currently the warmest on record, especially across the Gulf of Mexico,” according to Crown Weather.

“In addition, the ocean water temperatures across the Gulf of Mexico and the western Atlantic are the warmest start to a year on record. In addition to the very warm ocean water temperatures, the winter of 2016-17 is expected to be the warmest winter on record in places such as Houston and Miami.

LINK


If you also doubt that warm Ocean temperatures directly and significantly contribute to Hurricane strength, speed and size...Please let me know and I can link to some explanations of how Hurricanes are formed.

Other Links:
trackthetropics.com...


Earth Science for Kids
Weather - Hurricanes (Tropical Cyclones)

www.ducksters.com...



In order for a tropical disturbance to develop, the conditions need to be just right. While that includes a moist and unstable atmosphere, as well as weak vertical wind shear, ocean temperatures are also very important. Sea-surface temperatures need to be warm -- usually greater than 80 degrees -- therefore, those warmer oceans would allow for stronger hurricanes and typhoons.

weather.com...

Warmer Seas Creating Stronger Hurricanes
www.livescience.com...

AND HERE FROM A YEAR AGO

Gulf of Mexico 'Hot Tub' Could Fuel Hurricane Season Toward Peak


Sea surface temperatures so far this hurricane season have busted records in the Gulf of Mexico
..
Oceanic heat content – a measure of how much heat is stored in the oceans – was also at record to near-record levels for mid-July in parts of the Caribbean, Gulf of Mexico
...
Tropical storms and hurricanes can tap into this heat energy, which can help them to intensify. The warmer the water and the deeper the warm water layer goes, the ocean becomes more supportive for thunderstorm production in the atmosphere.
...

weather.com...

THIS FROM MAY 2017
Study Expects “Exceptionally Fast” Increases In Flooding Risk On Texas Coast
One researcher says Galveston is “definitely going to be hit hard.”
“Galveston is definitely going to be hit hard,” says Dr. Scott Kulp

www.houstonpublicmedia.org...


** But hell...Science is just a hoax by the Chinese!!!



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: tannerc

Man is going to have to learn where and how to build to prevent their homes and businesses from being devastated. But, Mama Earth has to go through her natural cycles to stay healthy. We are the ones that need to learn how to work around it.



One step forward...two steps back in that "learning" process..

Trump Rolled Back the Government's Best Flood Protection Standard
www.citylab.com...

Pres. Obama set new standards for re-building after hurricanes in potential flood plains.
Roads, Bridges, Hospitals or other federally tax payer funded rebuilding...either further back from flood zones or 2 feet higher etc.

Trump rescinded the rule 3 weeks ago.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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a reply to: soberbacchus

Gulf of Mexico is hot. In other news, the sky is blue. There will be more hurricanes in the gulf of Mexico. If Americans didn't want hurricanes, they should have never snatched Florida and Texas from Spain and Mexico in illegal wars.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: tannerc
a reply to: soberbacchus

Gulf of Mexico is hot. In other news, the sky is blue. There will be more hurricanes in the gulf of Mexico. If Americans didn't want hurricanes, they should have never snatched Florida and Texas from Spain and Mexico in illegal wars.


I suggest you put that ignorance in T-Shirt form and go tour Coastal Texas right now.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Singswithchickens
a reply to: network dude

I wonder how many American cities have to be destroyed?

How many new flood walls/gates need to be constructed in Florida?

How long will the talking point of "I'm not a scientist,but" holds so much water???


Might be just after folks realize that with or without AGW, Climate change, mean weather, the seas have been rising since the ending of the last ice age. But don't listen to me, I'm not a scientist.


Actual Scientists are telling us that man is causing the earth to warm in an accelerated cycle, irregardless of any natural cycle we may or may not be in. We can do lot's of things to reduce greenhouse gasses and emissions which we know effect our climate. We can also do lot's of things to mitigate damage from storms like this one, by changing how and where we build.

The really funny thing is that everything that we could do to combat or engage climate change and it's effects is really good for the planet, our health and our economy. Except the carbon tax, we definitely don't need more taxes, but everything else is good.


What if.....I really am not ready to fully invest in man caused warming, but I totally agree with everything you want to do? Does that still make me a denier and the enemy? It's comical that most (I'd wager) who don't believe in MMGW, still care about the environment, the planet, and the people who will inhabit it after us. But if we don't say the words, it's "denier!". I guess division is what they told us to do, so being the good sheep I am.....


See that is the problem. We should be more concerned with actions that benefit us all.

Sometimes the barrier to that is that certain states employees aren't allowed to use terms like Climate Change and Sea level rise, making it really hard to have a discussion about sea walls and changing building codes and upgrading sewer systems etc. We have to at least be able to discuss these things before most people will take any action.

The other problem is that I might say, "Because of Climate change and sea level rise we need to change the building code so that..." and the other person says. "There is no Climate change." And we just go back and forth without ever discussing the building code.

Half the people on this thread, alone, don't even think there would be any negative effects IF the climate got any warmer or changes drastically in some other way.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 03:23 PM
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The climate changes whether people like it or not. Man does not control nature. Man only makes up less than 0.000000000000000000000000001% of the animals on this planet. To think that man can control the climate is ludicrous.



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 07:16 AM
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originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Singswithchickens
a reply to: network dude

I wonder how many American cities have to be destroyed?

How many new flood walls/gates need to be constructed in Florida?

How long will the talking point of "I'm not a scientist,but" holds so much water???


Might be just after folks realize that with or without AGW, Climate change, mean weather, the seas have been rising since the ending of the last ice age. But don't listen to me, I'm not a scientist.


Actual Scientists are telling us that man is causing the earth to warm in an accelerated cycle, irregardless of any natural cycle we may or may not be in. We can do lot's of things to reduce greenhouse gasses and emissions which we know effect our climate. We can also do lot's of things to mitigate damage from storms like this one, by changing how and where we build.

The really funny thing is that everything that we could do to combat or engage climate change and it's effects is really good for the planet, our health and our economy. Except the carbon tax, we definitely don't need more taxes, but everything else is good.


What if.....I really am not ready to fully invest in man caused warming, but I totally agree with everything you want to do? Does that still make me a denier and the enemy? It's comical that most (I'd wager) who don't believe in MMGW, still care about the environment, the planet, and the people who will inhabit it after us. But if we don't say the words, it's "denier!". I guess division is what they told us to do, so being the good sheep I am.....


See that is the problem. We should be more concerned with actions that benefit us all.

Sometimes the barrier to that is that certain states employees aren't allowed to use terms like Climate Change and Sea level rise, making it really hard to have a discussion about sea walls and changing building codes and upgrading sewer systems etc. We have to at least be able to discuss these things before most people will take any action.

The other problem is that I might say, "Because of Climate change and sea level rise we need to change the building code so that..." and the other person says. "There is no Climate change." And we just go back and forth without ever discussing the building code.

Half the people on this thread, alone, don't even think there would be any negative effects IF the climate got any warmer or changes drastically in some other way.


And if you approached the same issue by showing historical data from the last 30,000 years showing how the seas have rising at a steady pace, you would accomplish the same thing, but leave AGW out of it for now. If the folks who push so hard for AGW/CC, would realize that some of the facts brought up by non-believers are actual true, they might find that better ways to communicate with each other exist. You don't win a prize for converting a non believer, and you still need to get things done. It's like the believers are purposely not comprehending human nature.



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 07:31 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
These poor idiots keep forgetting their argument that Weather does not equal Climate.

Weather doesn't equal climate but climate produces weather and when climate changes so does the weather. Basic cause and effect.


This is a bad storm. It's destruction was and is caused by explainable factors. Very slow moving, very strong storm. Nothing about that is due to man made climate change, it's due to weather. If this is the argument, then destroying it will be easy by just looking into the past.
www.wunderground.com...

Leftist media, grow a brain, sit down, shut up, and report the damn news, not your stupid theory.

How you can tell people to grow a brain just because you make a rant saying something isn't true without demonstrating your case one bit is just delusional. "Deadliest hurricanes" don't disprove why people are connecting this to climate change. People are connecting it to climate change because this is an example of increasing intensity and increasing occurrence of heavy storms. Your list has Katrina as one of the top spots and that happened 12 years ago.

The reason "leftists" (more like anyone paying attention) are talking about climate change now is because this storm should be a wake up call to deniers like yourself. You can't keep sticking your head in the sand when pounding weather keeps hitting us more and more frequently.
edit on 31-8-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 07:35 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

And it also has storms from the 1800's. Which was the point. A point is a part of the story that is significant. That part was where I mentioned that lots of strong storms have happened and some before AGW was a thing. Those same scientists that all agree we are doomed, said that hurricanes would be more frequent and stronger. They have been wrong about that. What else might they be wrong about?



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 07:39 AM
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originally posted by: tannerc
The climate changes whether people like it or not. Man does not control nature. Man only makes up less than 0.000000000000000000000000001% of the animals on this planet. To think that man can control the climate is ludicrous.

Man controls nature all the time. Haven't you seen a dam before?



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Duh! It's not like hurricanes are some new phenomenon. You missed my entire point about frequency of occurrence of high intensity storms.
edit on 31-8-2017 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 08:05 AM
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Hey the new catch all term is "Climatic Variation" covers everything not previously covered by "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" . Thank you for your understanding and support.




posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 08:08 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Duh! It's not like hurricanes are some new phenomenon. You missed my entire point about frequency of occurrence of high intensity storms.


Um...duh, so did you.


It’s been nearly 12 years, or 4,253 days, since the last major hurricane made landfall in the U.S., which is the longest such period on record.

link to source

derp.



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 08:23 AM
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Across northern India, southern Nepal and northern Bangladesh millions of people have been affected by the worst floods in recent years.

Monsoon floods leave thousands dead in South Asia

Thinks started to heat up globally a while ago. And more extreme weather events are further proof for the hypothesis, toldya moments in ignorant times.
edit on 31-8-2017 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Hurricane Harvey and Climate Change

As we’ve said, it’s inaccurate to say that climate change is the cause of Harvey, which dumped a record 50 inches of rain on southern Texas over four days.

But scientists have said that Harvey was likely worsened by climate change for a few reasons.

Michael Mann, a professor of atmospheric science at Penn State, pointed to at least three factors that likely affected Harvey — higher sea levels, warmer ocean waters and weak prevailing winds — in an article published in the Guardian on Aug. 28.

Sea level rise contributes to higher storm surges, explains Mann. Higher storm surges then lead to more coastal flooding, he says.

Warmer waters, on the other hand, lead to increased moisture in the atmosphere, which “creates the potential for much greater rainfalls and greater flooding,” Mann explains. “The combination of coastal flooding and heavy rainfall is responsible for the devastating flooding that Houston is experiencing.”

Though “more tenuous” than the other two factors, says Mann, Harvey also may have stalled near the coast because of weak prevailing winds that failed “to steer the storm off to sea.” This stalling then led to continued heavy rainfall on Texas that eventually topped 50 inches.

The weak prevailing winds are caused by a “greatly expanded subtropical high pressure system” currently over much of the U.S., which is “predicted in model simulations of human-caused climate change,” says Mann.

Scientists say other storms were likely made worse by climate change as well.



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: network dude

Hurricane Harvey and Climate Change

As we’ve said, it’s inaccurate to say that climate change is the cause of Harvey, which dumped a record 50 inches of rain on southern Texas over four days.

But scientists have said that Harvey was likely worsened by climate change for a few reasons.

Michael Mann, a professor of atmospheric science at Penn State, pointed to at least three factors that likely affected Harvey — higher sea levels, warmer ocean waters and weak prevailing winds — in an article published in the Guardian on Aug. 28.

Sea level rise contributes to higher storm surges, explains Mann. Higher storm surges then lead to more coastal flooding, he says.

Warmer waters, on the other hand, lead to increased moisture in the atmosphere, which “creates the potential for much greater rainfalls and greater flooding,” Mann explains. “The combination of coastal flooding and heavy rainfall is responsible for the devastating flooding that Houston is experiencing.”

Though “more tenuous” than the other two factors, says Mann, Harvey also may have stalled near the coast because of weak prevailing winds that failed “to steer the storm off to sea.” This stalling then led to continued heavy rainfall on Texas that eventually topped 50 inches.

The weak prevailing winds are caused by a “greatly expanded subtropical high pressure system” currently over much of the U.S., which is “predicted in model simulations of human-caused climate change,” says Mann.

Scientists say other storms were likely made worse by climate change as well.

Since ATS can no longer format replies correctly, what I did was to bold every time your article mentioned "likely", which they did before every statement. even your scientists aren't sure right now, which has been my stance for quite a while, though calling me a denier and saying something stupid like stick my head in the sand is easier than debating facts. derp.
edit on 31-8-2017 by network dude because: ATS formatting sucks balls



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Way to boldly stick a head in the sand, I'll give you that.



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