It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is sin absolute or relative and is the Bible too soft on sin

page: 2
3
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 02:47 PM
link   
I am still wondering why a discussion on the New Testament and the concept of sin in the New Testament suddenly veers into Mosaic Law.

For example, Jesus himself talked about the dietary laws.


Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”

12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides.[d] If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”
Matthew 15: 10-20

If certain things are clean or unclean to eat, how do you square this with what we now read? What goes into your mouth does not defile you (make you unclean), it's what comes out of your mouth (your words).




posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 03:25 PM
link   
a reply to: ketsuko

this is where "rightly dividing the word of truth" 2 Tim 2:15 is important.

Jesus personal earthly ministry was to Israel only and the eleven Apostles also followed that rule until God called Saul/Paul. Peter was also given a vision in which when he preached unto the Gentiles in Cornelius house the Holy Ghost filled them before he could say Repent and be baptized, because rule following would no longer be accepted after the calling of the Gentiles to be the children of God as well as Jews.

Jesus Changed everything when he was crucified.

Though Paul reiterates nine of the ten commandments in his teachings to Jews and Gentiles, they, the church, the body of Christ was not required to follow them but that the law wold be in them and they would do it by the grace of God and not by their own works.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 04:39 PM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015




You do realize an all-knowing God already knows all the choices you will make.


No he does not. What a foolish thing to say.

And since you are not a Christian, why should I explain? So you can twist its meaning?

Keep guessing and maybe you will one day understand.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 06:04 PM
link   
If you want to believe the plageurised writings of a few slaves about their sky fairy, go for it.

The Bible is nothing more than a drop in the ocean of ancient writings. It contains no more and no less truth than all the others.

Therefore, use it as a rule book at your own peril. The actual information of use in it goes far deeper than a bunch of stupid thou shalt nots.



posted on Aug, 29 2017 @ 06:31 PM
link   
The buybull was created by man at the council of Nicaea on the orders of Constantine who wanted a new god to unite all the people who he conquered. Since then its been rewritten countless times by man for his own agenda. Usually to control the confused sheople who are brain washed by men in black dresses. The buybull is full of porn murder rape and incest and no child should ever be allowed to read it never mind anyone with half a brain.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 06:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: Hecate666
a reply to: intrptr

Oh god I gave you a star [and I usually always disagree with your POV].

Thats because you really don't have a clue what I'm about.

But thanks anyway.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 07:35 AM
link   

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: butcherguy

originally footballs and basket balls were made of pigskin and many sill are.

Not according to what I have ever found.
The name derives from the fact that balls were first made from animal bladders (including pigs) which are not skin. There are no American footballs made from pigskin, they are either cowhide or synthetic material, but the NFL uses cowhide outers and a synthetic rubber bladder inside.
footballs
This link states that the oldest football ever found was made of deerskin around a pig bladder.
wonderopolis
edit on b000000312017-08-30T07:35:46-05:0007America/ChicagoWed, 30 Aug 2017 07:35:46 -0500700000017 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 08:37 AM
link   
a reply to: Hecate666


And I awarded You 'Your Texas' (Lone Star) even though You mixed in a 'negative' w/Your 'positive'.. Now if One were doing some 'judging' this statement would end up in the 'meh file'... In for a .10¢ in for a $1.00.

Stay Hydrated...

Shalom

P.S. I'm pointing fingers because I just bathed Me hands...



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 01:40 PM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

The Bible is not enough for people to understand how God is thinking and how he handles people's sins. If you steal, your hand will be cut off. Not now, because the laws wouldn't let it. But God makes it sure that electric tools are a lot cheaper to ensure it to happen. It is just an example.

God made nuclear weapons installed on satellites to cause your (fatal) accident using gamma laser technology, it would be too long to explain it now.

I try to explain, that God started to punish people randomly, without thinking. He contacted people to make nuclear weapons against civilians and the owners are using the satellites in a strict religious manner. It is actully a worldwide crime, but God is behind it.

This will result the upcoming war.



posted on Aug, 30 2017 @ 01:46 PM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

It depends on the type of reality. If this is a deterministic virtual reality construct, as many in science give high probabilities, you have no free will and therefore, there can be no sin. You're just playing a part that keeps your consciousness anchored in a false construct.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 05:42 AM
link   

originally posted by: JimNasium
a reply to: Hecate666


And I awarded You 'Your Texas' (Lone Star) even though You mixed in a 'negative' w/Your 'positive'.. Now if One were doing some 'judging' this statement would end up in the 'meh file'... In for a .10¢ in for a $1.00.

Stay Hydrated...

Shalom

P.S. I'm pointing fingers because I just bathed Me hands...


I can honestly say that I have no idea what you are on about. At all.



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 07:15 AM
link   

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: dfnj2015




You do realize an all-knowing God already knows all the choices you will make.


No he does not. What a foolish thing to say.

And since you are not a Christian, why should I explain? So you can twist its meaning?

Keep guessing and maybe you will one day understand.


How do you know what God is capable of doing? Are you God?



posted on Aug, 31 2017 @ 07:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: dfnj2015

It depends on the type of reality. If this is a deterministic virtual reality construct, as many in science give high probabilities, you have no free will and therefore, there can be no sin. You're just playing a part that keeps your consciousness anchored in a false construct.

Cheers - Dave


Sorry, reality is analog not digital. So I don't believe we live in a deterministic virtual reality construct. Computers have limitations. Reality does not seem to have the same limitations. What we have is the delusion reality has limitations because our ability to measure reality is discrete. Just because what we can measure is discrete doesn't mean reality is digital. It just means how we represent or understand how reality works is limited.



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 04:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
a reply to: dfnj2015

It depends on the type of reality. If this is a deterministic virtual reality construct, as many in science give high probabilities, you have no free will and therefore, there can be no sin. You're just playing a part that keeps your consciousness anchored in a false construct.

Cheers - Dave


Sorry, reality is analog not digital. So I don't believe we live in a deterministic virtual reality construct. Computers have limitations. Reality does not seem to have the same limitations. What we have is the delusion reality has limitations because our ability to measure reality is discrete. Just because what we can measure is discrete doesn't mean reality is digital. It just means how we represent or understand how reality works is limited.


The highest statistical probability still points towards a simulated construct. Our "bits" are seemingly plank length. I would still maintain this is a construct and prison for consciousness.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 06:11 PM
link   

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I think many people's idea of sin and their relationship to sin is not correctly interpreted. So many people wave their Bibles claiming to be the moral authority for God on Earth. People love to pretend to be superior over others. But many people hardly ever read the Bible or understand it. There is a Pew research poll that found evangelicals ranked only slightly higher than atheists in their knowledge of the New Testament and Jesus's teachings.


You sound judgemental.




Please do not respond to the OP by quoting just scripture. Please use your own words and try to think for yourself instead.



Is it because you don't understand scripture?



posted on Oct, 3 2017 @ 07:20 PM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015


Consider one of the most famous verses from the NT which starts at John 7:53. Pharisees bring a women before Jesus who had committed adultery. The Pharisees want to see if Jesus upholds the Mosaic law of Moses handed down from the OT were she must be stoned to death. The Pharisees want to see how Jesus would choose between honoring Mosaic law and his teaching of forgiveness. Jesus proclaims, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone.". If I said this people who idol worship the Bible would say I am discounted ALL sins. So what is Jesus saying at this point? Is Jesus saying adultery is okay? Jesus then tells the women to go and sin no more.

Lev_20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Where was the man? You can now understand that only the woman was brought before Jesus and the law plainly states that both man and woman to be punished. Even the accusers were so ignorant that they know not the law? Common sense tells you that if they were caught in the act [which must be the case] then they also knew who the man was. Then you must provide all of the law and not nit pick what you want of the law. Jesus knew the law and was not a fool such as the accusers were. The moral of the story is to first be not a judge and if a witness, to get all of the story and not half of the story.



There is a Pew research poll that found evangelicals ranked only slightly higher than atheists in their knowledge of the New Testament and Jesus's teachings.

I find that very hard to believe. You would have to have a testing of sorts to determine this statement and I know of nothing such as that. And even if there were such a poll it would prove nothing that would amount to anything. Christianity is based upon faith in Christ Jesus and not knowledge.



posted on Oct, 25 2017 @ 10:24 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

The Bible is quite clear and stringent on sin.

First, let's address what sin is. 1 John 3:4 - "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." Sin is transgression of the Law. What is the Law? The Law is encompassed in the Torah specifically (the first five books of the Bible), but is mainly compressed into Ten Commandments.

Mosaic law (aka Moses Law) and the Ten Commandments were the Law given to Israel. The Mosaic law specifically contained the ordinances and worship system, which included the priesthood, the tabernacle, the offerings, and the festivals. It provided a comprehensive system for Israel to worship God and a means for obtaining forgiveness for sin, before the Messiah was to come.

After Jesus came and died for our sins, the Mosaic law was no longer necessary. Jesus became our intermediary in heaven, to forgive sin. Jesus is in the sanctuary, pleading our case for salvation as judgement is passed.

The Ten Commandments clearly were never done away with. Matthew 5:18 - "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Some say this verse means fulfilling of Jesus role as Messiah, but the reality is, that the Law existed at creation and endures until the end of time.

At creation, God rested on the seventh day, consecrating the fourth commandment and marking it as the Seal of God, which will become key in end times. Even before God wrote the Ten Commandments on tablets, man knew the Law, because it was passed down from creation. Men who loved God obeyed the Sabbath.

Genesis 26:5 - "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

And so the Mosaic Law was necessary in Moses day to lay a foundation for worship in those days, but the Ten Commandments were always eternal. At the end of time, it will be key in defining who the remnant church/saints are and who has the Seal of God, not the Mark of the Beast.

Revelation 12:17 - "And the dragon (beast power) was wroth with the woman (church), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (remnant church), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

Revelation 14:12 - "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

The Ten Commandments are the character of God. In the first four, the commandments are about loving God. In the remaining six, the commandments are about loving each other.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
Worship God only and put God first.

2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image.
Do not worship statues or physical objects; idolatry. This can also be extended to anything you put more importance on in place of God, like gaming, social media, sports, TV, etc. All of them become graven images of worship, when God is put aside.

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
Speak good of God and don't use His name in a casual or demeaning way. God is deserving of utmost reverence.

4. Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy.
The only commandment that says "Remember" and "keep holy". The seventh day, which hasn't changed since creation. Rest and worship God on this day. No work, no buying or selling, no doing what you want to do. Focus on God. This day is for renewal and getting closer with God. In doing so, we become more righteous and holy; the character of God. Obeying this law also proves you are committed to worshiping God and putting Him first in your life. The importance God Himself puts on this commandment is self-evident.

The rest are self-explanatory and fall within the morality of most people.

5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness.
10. You shall not covet.

In summary, the Ten Commandments provide a way for man to attain righteousness and please God.

We know that we are saved by grace and are not judged by our works, lest any man boast. BUT... It is clear that God wants us to obey the Ten Commandments, to maintain good character and please Him. It is of utmost importance that we as Christians obey every commandment (again, see Revelation verses above), because it is a factor. Matthew 5:19 - "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

I truly believe that the Ten Commandments are the key factor in consideration for heaven, because the character of each person must be considered. You have to remember that heaven is a holy place where sin doesn't exist. We are called to match that character as close as we can, so we are considered great in the kingdom of heaven. For if we have the character of God, people can see it and it is a shining light to others.

At the core of sin and the Law is love for God and love for your fellow man. If you love God, you will keep His commandments. Therefore, sin can only be absolute and keeping the Law of God can only be absolute.

In my personal life, I adhere to no unclean meat and I'm trying to wean myself off of meat altogether to be vegetarian. I'm also obeying the seventh day Sabbath, because it is commanded and because I love God and want to please Him and be worthy of heaven, not just skate by.

John 14:15-21 - "If ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray (intermediary) the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter (Holy Spirit), that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive (sinners), because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."

1 John 2:6 - "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."

These last two verses make it clear. Jesus did not sin. Jesus kept the Sabbath His whole life and even kept it in death. If that's not a powerful enough message about obeying the Law of God and eliminating sin from your life absolutely, then I don't know what is.
edit on 25-10-2017 by Freth because: Addendum



posted on Oct, 26 2017 @ 04:48 AM
link   

originally posted by: Freth
a reply to: dfnj2015

The Ten Commandments clearly were never done away with. Matthew 5:18 - "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Some say this verse means fulfilling of Jesus role as Messiah, but the reality is, that the Law existed at creation and endures until the end of time.

The expression "the law" or "law" is used in multiple senses in the bible (some have overlapping meanings or applications, especially towards the end of the list further below).

Law (Glossary):

When it is capitalized, this word refers either to the Mosaic Law or to the first five books of the Bible. When it is lowercased, it may refer to individual laws of the Mosaic Law or a principle of law.—Nu 15:16; De 4:8; Mt 7:12; Ga 3:24.

Law: Insight, Volume 2

“1. The principles and regulations emanating from a government and applicable to a people, whether in the form of legislation or of custom and policies recognized and enforced by judicial decision. 2. Any written or positive rule, or collection of rules, prescribed under the authority of the state or nation.” (The American College Dictionary, edited by C. L. Barnhart, 1966) “A divine commandment or a revelation of the will of God . . . the whole body of God’s commandments or revelations: the will of God . . . : a rule of right living or good conduct esp[ecially] when conceived as having the sanction of God’s will, of conscience or the moral nature, or of natural justice.”—Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, 1981.
...
The stated will of God becomes law to his creatures.—See LEGAL CASE.

Law to Angels.
...
Law of Divine Creation.
...
Law to Adam.
...
Laws to Noah; Patriarchal Law.
...
Law of God to Israel—The Law of Moses.
...
Law of Conscience.
...
“Law of the Christ.”
...
“Law of God.”
...
Law of Sin and Death.
...
“Law of Faith.”
...
Law of Husband.
...
“Kingly Law.”
...

A Powerful Reassurance From Hebrew’s Smallest Letter

Can we really be confident that all of God’s promises will come true? Jesus was convinced of it, and his teaching built faith in his listeners. Consider the illustration he gave in his Sermon on the Mount, as recorded at Matthew 5:18: “Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place.”

The smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet is י (yod), which is the first letter of the Tetragrammaton, the sacred name of God, Jehovah.* In addition to the actual words and letters of God’s Law, the scribes and Pharisees viewed each “stroke of a letter” as highly significant.

Jesus was saying that it was more likely that heaven and earth would pass away than that the smallest detail of the Law would go unfulfilled. Yet the Scriptures assure us that the literal heavens and earth will remain forever. (Psalm 78:69) So this striking statement indicated that not even the smallest detail of the Law would go unfulfilled.

Does Jehovah God care about small details? Yes, indeed. Consider this: The ancient Israelites were told that they must not break any bone of the Passover lamb. (Exodus 12:46) A small detail, perhaps. Did they understand why they should not break any of the bones? Probably not. Jehovah God knew, though, that this detail was prophetic of the fact that the Messiah would not have any of his bones broken when put to death on the torture stake.—Psalm 34:20; John 19:31-33, 36.

What do Jesus’ words teach us? We too can be totally confident that all of Jehovah God’s promises will come true, down to every last detail. What a powerful reassurance from Hebrew’s smallest letter!

*: The smallest letter of the Greek alphabet is iota and is evidently similar to the Hebrew י (yod). As the Law of Moses was originally written and passed down in Hebrew, Jesus was likely referring to the Hebrew letter.

Jeremiah 31:33,34:

“For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I will write it. And I will become their God, and they will become my people.”

34 “And they will no longer teach each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Jehovah!’ for they will all know me, from the least to the greatest of them,” declares Jehovah. “For I will forgive their error, and I will no longer remember their sin.”


See also Hebrews 8:10,11 where Paul uses the same quotation to explain something so no need to repeat it, but you might want to see in what context he uses it.
edit on 26-10-2017 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2017 @ 07:06 PM
link   
The last book and chapter of the Bible:

Revelation 22:14-15 (KJV) "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Revelation 22:18-19 (KJV) "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Seems like commandments (specifically, the Ten Commandments) are mighty important. You won't convince me otherwise.



posted on Nov, 2 2017 @ 07:23 PM
link   
The Bible mentions the Right hand enough, I suppose Left handed rotation (Sinister) is relative to that. You could write an epic story from verses mentioning the Right hand rotation alone.

The Bible is probably the best collection of ideas defining backwards regression of galactic growth and sts vs sto viewpoints that define the direction of spin.



new topics

top topics



 
3
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join