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Jesus vs Saul-- sinful or sinless?

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posted on Sep, 2 2017 @ 06:28 AM
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a reply to: Seede

So, if Jesus was indeed sinless as you seem to believe, wouldn't his lack of action in this supposedly obvious matter of the Torah law-- strictly speaking-- sort of make him a sinner? That he would only remain in limbo juridically (or according to Torah law), by admitting he was indeed a sinner like all other people and therefore could not toss any stones. His lack of action in this story (that was even added hundreds of years later) was related to his humble wit and clever oratory skills, not his supposed sinlessness and divinely forgiving nature. This here is a fine-line paradox. And have you ever wondered why they confront Jesus with this adulteress and why she would call him Lord? Was she his wife or otherwise in his legal care according to Torah law?

Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.” [ESV] John 8:10f

Note the word «Neither» there, Gr. οὐδέ, or look it up here. There are rhetorical conditions involved. Jesus says that he neither is in the position to complete a sentence, on the same terms as the others, i.e. pulling the sinners' card, just like the others. If he was indeed sinless, he sure made quite a few attempts pretending not to be. This story included. And in particular.
edit on 2-9-2017 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 2 2017 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1


Even a modern day document like the US constitution suffers some of the same issues the Bible does . Context being king to getting to the understanding of what they were thinking at the time.


This is so very true. My dad taught us practically from birth about Natural Law and First Principles as the foundation for our Constitution, so I have always thought in those terms... I taught my kids the same. To a certain extent, I understand and agree with the Constitution as a "living document," in the sense that our laws should grow and expand and progress in accordance with new technology and industry, etc. But those First Principles have been neglected, forgotten and pretty much abandoned in current discussion and practice.... not to mention, twisted and contorted and compromised for self-serving agendas.

I have found it ironic, in the worst way, that so many folks describe the USA as a "Christian" nation and want to impose Christian values on everyone... but in the real world, it was Christian persecution that prompted the enumerated right to freedom of religion! They are the people the founding fathers tried to protect us from.


Most or at the very least a majority will apply a 21st century context to their understanding . Getting into the minds of the founding fathers of a few years past is a challenge but the ancient world is far far removed from today . but is a important consideration to drill down to a truth of the day .


I have a really awesome old book called Gospel Light, by George Lamsa, who re-translates/interprets the gospels from their original Aramaic, as still spoken by the Kurds. It is a fascinating read, and a real eye opener. Times may change, but fundamental principles -- and the human condition -- do not change. There is so much we could learn about ourselves today, if we opened our minds to understanding the past.

(Sorry for the late reply... sometimes the real world gets in the way!)



posted on Sep, 2 2017 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: Utnapisjtim

I think my comment above addresses your comment as well! But I have to give a wholehearted thumbs up to this:


The world's greatest religion worships a guy who is nailed to a bloody scaffold for crying out loud.


Life is for the living, and Jesus devoted His life and ministry to teaching us how to live... only for so much focus to be put on His death instead.

I've always lived by the philosophy that we do what we've gotta do so that we can then do what we wanna do. When we make sure to dot all our "I's" and cross all our "T's" then the period at the end takes care of itself. (I hope that makes sense!)



posted on Sep, 2 2017 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


There are no fundamental differences in the teachings of Jesus and Paul, the only difference is your not rightly dividing the word of truth and applying the word of truth properly.


Um... okay... gotcha. So Saul of Tarsus knew the Lord and His will better than Jesus... or, to paraphrase your words, Jesus did not "rightly" divide the word of truth and apply the word of truth properly.

Yeah, right... I'll believe that when pigs fly AND hell freezes over.



posted on Sep, 2 2017 @ 12:17 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: ChesterJohn


There are no fundamental differences in the teachings of Jesus and Paul, the only difference is your not rightly dividing the word of truth and applying the word of truth properly.


Um... okay... gotcha. So Saul of Tarsus knew the Lord and His will better than Jesus... or, to paraphrase your words, Jesus did not "rightly" divide the word of truth and apply the word of truth properly.

Yeah, right... I'll believe that when pigs fly AND hell freezes over.


Touché!

There are kosher pigs you know. We have them up here. They're extremely long and pink. Sort of scruffy, but kind as they come. Just remember not to share bed with them. They'd eat you since they love you, but since you are an unclean short-haired monkey according to the Torah, the cud-chewing pig would spit you out and lament over his own uncleanness. That's when Christmas or rather Jul-- comes in handy. Kosher pork ribs for everybody, and if you're lucky, you get to be slightly dirty on the darkest days of the year. As well.



posted on Sep, 3 2017 @ 02:23 PM
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I thought Jesus was calling dibs

"firsties!"




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