The USA oppressors have left us with no choice but to fight them

Thank God we have people willing to behead aide workers, machinegun school children, Take and kill hostages, blow up school buses, etc; all to protect us from the evil that is the USA

Priceless, and yet so true...

iraq-war.ru

Oh yes, only slightly more reliable than IndiaDaily, hehe...

Perhaps when they stop the beheadings and shooting old ladies in the head, they'll be able to make some kind of moral argument, until then...their words are severely tainted....

i'd like to point out we WILL prosecute those that torture, and otherwise violate prisoners rights, unlike our opressed enemy

we wear uniforms into battle, unlike our oppressed enemy who uses women and children, and even downs syndrome individuals to carry out cowardly car bombings....

To be honest being british and proud of being british and no matter what people say britain is the greatest nation on the face of the earth that has ever lived. not most powerful but certainly greatest. I haevw atched for 6 years as the USA forces its policies on the world. and in my opinion it is about time the USA stepped down and started to focus on its own people rather than supporting wars in the gulf etc. also theres a good chance they wouldnt have this terrorist problem hd the USA not trained them and given them the weapons to do it with. Im pretty sure americas next target is either serbia or Iran and britain has alreayd said we wil lnot follow you into that so, I expect the attacks on britain if there has been any on our homeland to stop as we are only being attacked for helping you. almost 89% of all british soldiers that have died, Have died whilst serving right alongisde the america forces.So i personally am awaiting for Iran or a country like that to get you a sharp shock and make you rethink your policies. AMERICA isnt invincible, it has nukes wow that supposedly makes it powerful it doesnt you are not alowed to uset hem, if you us a nuker the entire world is going to be on their ass. so im waiting as i said for korea ro launch a fake nulcear wepaons or something at NY and the USA expect its real, i think that would make america rethink about everything

outside of the beatles and warm beer, what have you given the world

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by ufo3
Abuse like that which has happened in parts of Iraq has always happened in all wars and has allways involved both sides

Certainly.

The whole thing was blown way out of proportion by the press,

Hardly. They sexually humiliated, sodomized, brutalized, and physically tortured the very inmates that they were responsible for protecting.
The people that did it should be locked up, possibly executed, for giving such propaganda to a dastardly enemy and for disobeying direct orders from the highest branches of the military.

They were not just 'made uncomfortable', they were physically and sexually tortured by those stupid, unamerican, goons. There is absolutely no excuse for it; ever. It was an even bigger scandal, because human rights agencies were reporting to the pentagon and adminstration that abuse was occuring, and they ignored it, they didn't investigate, at all.

and lets not forget that they were also criminals and not innocents being bullied

irrelevant.

Nygdan, I spent 26 years in the military and wish I was young enough to serve more. From reading your post I'm sure you have never served in anything. The only thing you do is hate. I don't even know if you're American. I doubt it. Has the American forces be-headed a terrorist prisoner for your television viewing? Have they lined terrorist prisoners up and shot anyone? I'm sure you would dance in the streets if they did.

What defines how the terrorist prisoners should be treated? The Geneva Conventions Article 3? Clearly, Al-Queda and other terrorists do not conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war. A suicide bomber does not openly carry arms. A hijacker of a plane does not wear a uniform identifying him as such. Furthermore, the Geneva Conventions, like most treaties, structure legal relationships between Nation States, not between Nation States and private interest groups and non-state actors, such as Al-Queda or any other terrorist organization.

Maybe the question should be: Regardless of whether or not Al-Queda and suspected terrorists are legally accorded POW status by the Geneva Convention, SHOULD the United States treat them as such?

Terrorist groups operate without regard to borders and observe no distinction between combatants and civilians. Our weapons for controlling hostile states don't work well against decentralized networks of suicidal operatives, with no citizens or borders to defend.

The Geneva Convention makes little sense when applied to a terrorist group or a pseudo- state. If we must fight these kinds of enemies, we must create a new set of rules. Geneva convention only applies to the countries that have signed it. It is so our soliders get the same respect if they are captured. We don't have any agreement with terrorist so the geneva convention doesn't apply, unless you can point to me what terrorist organization signed the geneva conventions.

For the Geneva Convention to apply, the combatant has to be part of an organized military, and be wearing a recognizable uniform- which has been construed as an armband, badge or some other unique, but uniform device or mark on all the unit's troops, which is clearly visible. Non-uniformed combatants do not enjoy the protections of the Conventions and, yes, they can be executed on the spot.

The terrorists in Iraq are raping the international laws of warfare, by targeting civilians and not separating themselves from civilians.

And to you Nygdan, anything the US does in battle or with terrorist prisoners will be wrong, immoral or illegal. I suggest you go watch the videos of terrorist be-heading their prisoners.

Logic and reasoning usually doesn't connect with you and most liberals.

Chief

Originally posted by radagast
outside of the beatles and warm beer, what have you given the world

America!... and aren't we regretting that with each passing day!



[edit on 9-2-2005 by paranoia]

Originally posted by yuanshao101
I haevw atched for 6 years as the USA forces its policies on the world. and in my opinion it is about time the USA stepped down and started to focus on its own people rather than supporting wars in the gulf etc. also theres a good chance they wouldnt have this terrorist problem hd the USA not trained them and given them the weapons to do it with.

agreed, except that Britain has been guilty of just as much imperialist murder as the US.

He didn't reall think about that did he lol, we have given the world America, new zealand and australia, we have given the world major break throughs in weapons, computers, even the revolver was copied from us and make in the USA lol. and as for britains empire theres things we had to do and that was it, and we ACTUALLY DID IT if we said we were going to take over half the world we went out and did it unlike our lilttle children over in the united states lol we were taking over the world before you even existed lol

first of all,
dont kill the messenger.
i didnt write this manifesto, and i dont agree with it 100%,
i think there are few points that are really good,
but there are also few points that are simply crazy.
but then again, who am i to judge these people,
that have written this manifesto.
i dont live there, and i sure didnt walk in their shoes.
that can be propaganda or the truth,
and neither of us knows that...

i found it and i thought you all should read it,
since it has ALOT to do with the u.s. people in iraq and in the states.
it is a message, and as i said, take it or leave it.
i understand that for most of you it is all a crappy provocation,
but propaganda machines work on both sides you know.
so if you take it as "rebel manifesto" or "terrorists propaganda crap",
it is your choice, that you have every right to.

i stand in the middle here,
i dont agree with it,
and i dont dissagree with it.
its not black and its not white, its the gray zone.

sorry for all the people this thread insulted,
or pissed off. wasnt my intention.
just wanted you all to see it and read it if you want to.

Originally posted by radagast
what happened to the rasta with the rifle avatar ? that was better

you think so?
yeah, he was cool, wasnt he?
but its CHE time now!

Originally posted by radagast
why don't you go find pictures of the taliban executing people in a soccer stadium for not weraing a veil or saddam's torture palaces for his political opponents. THATS oppression

if we wanted to,
we could both find pictures of all sorts of executions and suffering that goes on on all parts of the globe. there are people dying in all sorts of prisions, camps, cities, villages. you want to see something really scary, go check out photos from dafur, sudan in africa; that will get a new meaning of the word "genocide". but as usual, nobody cares about poor african people, that suffer every day. why doesnt nobody want to give "deomocracy" to this poor people? they really need it!
man, i could find you pictures that would make you really sick, and what would that help? there is ALOT of suffering going on in this world, nobody knows about, or doesnt cares about.

Originally posted by Amuk
Thank God we have people willing to behead aide workers, machinegun school children, Take and kill hostages, blow up school buses, etc; all to protect us from the evil that is the USA

What a load of crap

do you also remeber a couple of young teenagers from YOUR country,
roamed into their highschool and started shooting people with machine guns.
are they also called terrorists? they were not muslim.

do you still remember the general custer? was he a hero for you?

are the KKK a religious sect or a "god loving people"?

and ofcourse lets not forget who founded and created these "terrorists" organisations. lets not forget that.

you see,
the superpowers with their modern weaponary,
created the "simple fighting man",
also called "a terrorists".
they are the other side of the medal,
the other "means of war",
the other mans sword.
they are the answer to high tech airplanes
and "smart bombs".
they are the answer to that questions.
because i dont think that they became "terrorists",
out of pure boredoom.
something must have triggered that,
dont you think so?

Originally posted by Gazrok

iraq-war.ru

Oh yes, only slightly more reliable than IndiaDaily, hehe...

Perhaps when they stop the beheadings and shooting old ladies in the head, they'll be able to make some kind of moral argument, until then...their words are severely tainted....

as i said,
its the message from the other side.
if its iraq-war.ru,
aljazeera.net,
or any other site,
it is still up to you to take it or leave it.

and please,
stop using this "beheadings" and "shooting old ladies" for your arguemnts.
or is this the only ones you can find?
i can dig up dirt on every country in this world,
if i wanted to.
why?
because the world today is gone crazy,
and it is not very hard to find that crap,
because it keep appearing everywhere!

so please,
dont talk like everybody in the middle east is a criminal,
while the united states are the perfect country,
that "just wants to save the world from terrorism and spread democracy"!

please!

Its gotta be tough to be you souljah.
I mean all your heroes are dead, dying, hunted, or running.
Che shot down like the mad dog he was.
Al zarqawi unable to even intimidate old women and cripples enough to keep them from voteing.
Bush reelected dispite OBL's warning.
Its not easy being a terrorist supporter

Originally posted by mwm1331
Its gotta be tough to be you souljah.
I mean all your heroes are dead, dying, hunted, or running.
Che shot down like the mad dog he was.
Al zarqawi unable to even intimidate old women and cripples enough to keep them from voteing.
Bush reelected dispite OBL's warning.
Its not easy being a terrorist supporter

yes, gotta be tough to be me,
and to be me, you gotta be tough!

you never cease to amaze me with your comments.
if there is a "terrorist supporter" here,
its you, for supporting your current u.s. govermnet,
that is the real terror spreading master!

and i wont even comment your "all your heroes are dead..." statement.
just childish....




[edit on 10-2-2005 by Souljah]

I really dont get how people can admire che. He was such a failure. I mean even if you buy into communist drivel the simple fact is he was a amazingly unsuccessful revolutionary. Had it not been for castro he couldn't have even made the cuban revolution a success. He was so # as cubas finance minster thet castro sent him on a revolution tour just to get rid of him. And by himself he never even came close to sparking a revolution. Not to mention that he was slaughtered like a pig since he had no military ability what so ever. i mean the guy was totally incompetant.

Originally posted by mwm1331
I really dont get how people can admire che. He was such a failure...

about Che:
he was a revolutionary,
he wanted to change things,
and he did.
today millions of people know him,
and follow his steps around the world.
is that how a failure looks like to you?

Che Guevara

Though communism may have lost its fire, he remains the potent symbol of rebellion and the alluring zeal of revolution.

Like so many epics, the story of the obscure Argentine doctor who abandoned his profession and his native land to pursue the emancipation of the poor of the earth began with a voyage. In 1956, along with Fidel Castro and a handful of others, he had crossed the Caribbean in the rickety yacht Granma on the mad mission of invading Cuba and overthrowing the dictator Fulgencio Batista. Landing in a hostile swamp, losing most of their contingent, the survivors fought their way to the Sierra Maestra. A bit over two years later, after a guerrilla campaign in which Guevara displayed such outrageous bravery and skill that he was named comandante, the insurgents entered Havana and launched what was to become the first and only victorious socialist revolution in the Americas. The images were thereafter invariably gigantic. Che the titan standing up to the Yanquis, the world's dominant power. Che the moral guru proclaiming that a New Man, no ego and all ferocious love for the other, had to be forcibly created out of the ruins of the old one. Che the romantic mysteriously leaving the revolution to continue, sick though he might be with asthma, the struggle against oppression and tyranny.

source:
the.time100

All of his attempts at formenting revoultion failed except for Cuba.
Bolvia, argentina, africa,
He sucked so bad as the finance minster of cuba that castro kicked him off the island.
Yes that sounds like a failure to me.

Originally posted by mwm1331
All of his attempts at formenting revoultion failed except for Cuba.
Bolvia, argentina, africa,
He sucked so bad as the finance minster of cuba that castro kicked him off the island.
Yes that sounds like a failure to me.

i guess you dont like che guevara huh?
why? for him being a communist?
is that still bothering you, as an american? communism?
never gotten over that red curtain huh?

"if its red, shoot it in the head!"
huh?

The fact that he was a communist just means he was stupid.
the fact tht he was a bad communist makes hm a falure.

I find it odd that people continue to point out that insurgents execute any Coalition soldiers or collaborators of the US cause.

The coalition is an organized well equipped military machine and is more than capable of handling/detaining POW's and making sure they do not return to combat, however the insurgency is a people populated resistance movement with minimal equipment or secure holding areas to store prisoners. If the insurgency is unable to hold such prisoners, the only other options are either to let them go, or kill them. If they choose the option of letting these prisoners go, they realize the Coalition forces will simply put them back into the former positions they held, ready to fight against them once more. So why are you so shocked when they execute them?

Originally posted by Ritual
This is just as bad in my opinion then what happened in Abhu Ghraib.

This was in the Rhode Island State Prison.

I didnt think stuff like that happened. But that was an experience. It was worse then I expected. Seeing people brought back to their cells in casts.

That is real torture in my opinion, not being paraded around naked. Heck in prison I was stripped naked more times then most of my high school relationships.

I am quite distressed at the magnitude of people that think the only torture at Abhu Ghraib was the pictures you saw on FOX or CNN of prisoners 'naked'. Then you have the audacity to post on the situation?

I will post this link again (I have in other threads) even though I know most of you will not view it, or even scroll down the page, simply because you would rather think you're once glorious country is not capable of such actions.

(Warning Graphic)
www.albasrah.net...