Leaked Chats Show Unite the Right Attendees Were Planning for Violence

a reply to: dreamingawake


I replied to you, the comments are not aimed at you personally.


So what then do you suggest we do ?


Should we remove all items from existence that may tip someone somewhere over the edge ?


I'm a little confused as to what people think removing symbols of hate will achieve, I can tell you what I think will happen.


You can remove one thing and another will pop up in its place, where do we draw the line ?

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Exactly where I was saying in earlier threads: The killer who drove into the crowd probably heavily followed the discussion and or advice of the ones he looked up to.

You could be right. Young and angry and suddenly immersed in a culture he wanted to belong to. He might have been reading about it or his buddies on the day were talking about what they'd like to do to protesters. Could have been the photograph moment or anything really. All we know is something snapped and he didn't have the capacity to stop himself.

He was susceptible to something whether it was consuming hate or gullible idiocy. He'll now get to spend life with the prison gangs and live the dream of racial segregation.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: dreamingawake


I replied to you, the comments are not aimed at you personally.


So what then do you suggest we do ?


Should we remove all items from existence that may tip someone somewhere over the edge ?


I'm a little confused as to what people think removing symbols of hate will achieve, I can tell you what I think will happen.


You can remove one thing and another will pop up in its place, where do we draw the line ?

Nice, but sure sounded like it because it's what I was mentioning, though what ever, I usually move on from ad hom comments.

Though, I will say:
I never advocated, you an see in this threads from the confederate flag discussion, removal of flags or even monuments.

I'm mentioning encouraging safe spaces for people to harbor hate, draw those into their violent filled hate manifestos, that quite possibly mentally inept(such as the killer driver) can easily be swayed.

If these chats came out to be true(seems likely at this point but will wait for more info), the ones who influenced should be held accountable as well. Especially in the case that the killer is mentally retarded. That's not to say shutdown private chats, etc, but perhaps monitoring is falling through with some of these private sites. ATS doesn't stand for violence as a private site.

originally posted by: Kandinsky

originally posted by: dreamingawake
Exactly where I was saying in earlier threads: The killer who drove into the crowd probably heavily followed the discussion and or advice of the ones he looked up to.

You could be right. Young and angry and suddenly immersed in a culture he wanted to belong to. He might have been reading about it or his buddies on the day were talking about what they'd like to do to protesters. Could have been the photograph moment or anything really. All we know is something snapped and he didn't have the capacity to stop himself.

He was susceptible to something whether it was consuming hate or gullible idiocy. He'll now get to spend life with the prison gangs and live the dream of racial segregation.

Thanks for your reply. If it was an Antifa or claimed Antifa involvement in a chat influencing people, I am sure many more would agree, as would I, that there's an issue that should be addressed and likely dealt with if possible. Too bad for the division.

a reply to: dreamingawake

So should we remove violent movies and tv shows, violent books etc. Clearly by that line of thinking that these books and movies are pushing people over the edge into acting out violence .

ATS doesn't stand for violence as a private site.

Then you haven't been paying attention, there are calls for violence every day on this site, especially towards minorities.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: dreamingawake

So should we remove violent movies and tv shows, violent books etc. Clearly by that line of thinking that these books and movies are pushing people over the edge into acting out violence .

ATS doesn't stand for violence as a private site.

Then you haven't been paying attention, there are calls for violence every day on this site, especially towards minorities.

Yeah see you don't get what I am saying, not calling for removal of movies, etc. In fact am not saying that at all. I stand against that.

I'm simply saying let the chats stay but they need some moderation and should be held to the standards that all sites are(because a few isn't fair now is it)as well as repercussions for those responsible for influencing him if brought up in a court of law.

Actually what is your argument here? Let's say an Antifa chat, the people who run it were encouraging "bike locking" people in the head, and some man or group are set up to do so and succeed injuring and or killing people. You see no problem with that incitement to violence?
Here's a case that very thing can stand in a court of law: Source


Overall they do a good job of taking care of threats. A lot of it's removed if not then it's masked enough it doesn't violate anything(yeah I've seen those) or has gone unreported.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Some of the Discord members in the article are suggestible kids and so are a few Antifa (when their faces were showing). I can't speak for everyone, but that late teenage mentality is often high on confidence and low on experience. The driver can't have had a true grip on consequences in the same way as a hooded teen Antifa throwing a rock at another person's head. They're too immature to really weigh up the potential for ruining someone's life or spending their own in the hell of the prison system.

Tragedies all round.

Not sure what the best solutions are.

a reply to: dreamingawake

Yeah see you don't get what I am saying, not calling for removal of movies, etc. In fact am not saying that at all. I stand against that.

Clearly this why I am asking you questions. Thanks for clarifying.

Actually what is your argument here? Let's say an Antfa chat, the people who run it were encouraging "bike locking" people in the head, and some man or group are set up to do so and succeed injuring and or killing people. You see no problem with that incitement to violence?

This is the tricky part.

What if an argument was presented that conspiracy sites influence people to believe in conspiracies instead of the MSM version of events, should we outlaw these sites ?

What if members from these sites committed acts of violence, who do we blame /..the person or the site ?

ATS has had members here that have done exactly that, should ats be removed in case some other nutter does the same thing ?

My argument is simple, just because someone does something crappy does not mean we should look to blame the influence they had. Like I said personal responsibility.

Another example , macdonalds advertise burgers, someone sees those ads goes and eats so many burgers his stomach explodes ...whos at fault ?

This is a really messy topic and I'm struggling .

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Sigh you keep asking if i want to ban things, I'm mentioning organized influences by actual people through a chatroom(which is real time), not commentary on a site.

The whole PGate thing with the shop shooting brought a lot of blame to conspiracy sites. But apparently no one had told the shooter to open fire or at least not brought up as evidence to discuss. I'm talking about the Charlottesville killer being coaxed by people he idolized if he had actually went to their chat.

See the link I added to the reply above, yeah it is a messy topic, but apparently it can be brought up in a court of law if digital communication(chat, text) wise is coaxed into something.

originally posted by: fiverx313

originally posted by: PlasticWizard
If this is the the discord chat thing, folks are already saying that it's fake news. Something about the font not being the same and there's a some spacing issues. Plus discord doesn't allow someone to not an avatar. It'll slapped a default one in there. Something to consider and look into.

got a source for these folks?

It was a thread that was quickly buried on 4chan. If I see the info graph again I'll post it up. I wouldn't put it past either side or a troll to fake something like this. Checking to see if the screen shot is photoshopped should be a priority. I'm not familiar with discord so I I'm not the man for the job.

Just putting it out there that this needs to be verified and I'm not taking anyone's "leaked" screen shots as gospel. Hell if it wasn't shopped, it could have been a discord chat full of larping antifa or leftists trying to setup the unite the right.

a reply to: dreamingawake


Yes I saw that story, pretty bad form from the young lady. I would agree that if people are being coaxed in real time like in that story there is certainly some blame that needs to be entertained. Again its a very fine line though and is very messy.


My concern is that with the way labels are thrown about and how people take no responsibility with their actions, we could be in for a rude awakening.

This kind of thinking is exactly will lead us to a dystopian existence as described in 1984, if people cannot be trusted to think for themselves, the system will be tweaked to do your thinking for you.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Mandroid7

Well. That was an unexpected response. So you have decided to shove your head in the sand and pretend like Nazi's don't exist anymore.
Mike Gowin: Man who devised internet Hitler law says, "Call These Charlottesville S***heads Nazis'

'By all means, compare these s***heads to the Nazis. Again and again. I'm with you.'

What do you propose we do about THESE Nazis:

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: dreamingawake


Yes I saw that story, pretty bad form from the young lady. I would agree that if people are being coaxed in real time like in that story there is certainly some blame that needs to be entertained. Again its a very fine line though and is very messy.


My concern is that with the way labels are thrown about and how people take no responsibility with their actions, we could be in for a rude awakening.

This kind of thinking is exactly will lead us to a dystopian existence as described in 1984, if people cannot be trusted to think for themselves, the system will be tweaked to do your thinking for you.

I understand your fear, I think most of us are feeling it. Though keep in mind on one factor statue and flag removal is nothing new. When I lived in Florida, Ol Jebby Bush removed the Confederate flag from flying over the state capital. Gasp a GOP did that-or so called anyway.

There is an agenda at play, it's playing both sides to keep the division alive. Imagine to the the horror if the Bernie Independents went on to align with the Right leaning Independents. The two party division would be gone, they need a new one. This time it's geared to pit the people against the people, on matters over hyped not just the MSM but the Alternative media as well, and it is working well.

The labels against these people in the OP chat are correct. Unite the Right was headed by the National Vanguard which is a white nationalist organization. They don't even hide that fact but they did try to manipulate right leaning people playing up the fears against the media(which we all distrust here), for example.

They are trouble makers, Kessler-the leader- used to align left, now he's playing the opposite side.They take no responsibility as they play right into pushing agendas.

a reply to: dreamingawake






Its a 13 minute vid if you can find the time to sit through it, it is interesting. It could be construed as off topic, but the meat of it is relevant.

I'm going to sign of now, vids like these are the reason I am skeptical, to put it simply we are all being played and we need to wake up to it, quick smart.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

What if an argument was presented that conspiracy sites influence people to believe in conspiracies instead of the MSM version of events, should we outlaw these sites ?

no, but it should be ridiculed.
you can see the same people starting threads claiming anti fascists are facist then linking to a far-right website or neo-nazi youtube channel.
those same people pushed the seth rich lie and the hilarity of pizzagate, it should be open season on them.

ATS has had members here that have done exactly that, should ats be removed in case some other nutter does the same thing ?

they would just find their excuse from elsewhere, like the kids embracing wahhabi and running people over.
you can't fix stupid, someone prepared to mow down people in barcelona on the promise of juicy virgins or attacking a pizza shop to end paedophilia was susceptible to doing something dumb at some point.

My argument is simple, just because someone does something crappy does not mean we should look to blame the influence they had. Like I said personal responsibility.

agreed, but i think it's important however that people get out of their media bubble many here are stuck in.
rather than jump for joy at the 18th thread today started by the same user stating 'antifa beatdown innocent nazi' people should question the motivation and agenda behind it rather than barricading the windows and ordering a glock.

originally posted by: growler
*snip*

i think it's important however that people get out of their media bubble many here are stuck in.

*snip*

Hear! hear!

a reply to: fiverx313

You mean they were discussing tactics on how to fend off people who they had watched beating those on the right with sticks, bats, bricks, bicycle locks, and other things for more than a year?

How shocking.

originally posted by: AnIntellectualRedneck
a reply to: fiverx313

You mean they were discussing tactics on how to fend off people who they had watched beating those on the right with sticks, bats, bricks, bicycle locks, and other things for more than a year?

How shocking.

Yeah, driving into a crowd and running over people with cars is a great way to protect oneself. As were the celebrations over Heyer's murder ... before the site owners at Discord finally shut the chat server down to save their own asses.

Here's a thread I made on the topic about a week ago. It's posted in a different board so it's fine for there to be a duplicate. I just thought people might be interested in reading what people were saying then.

DATA RELEASE: “Unite The Right” Planning Chats Demonstrate Violent Intent

a reply to: PlasticWizard

The problem with that claim is that Eli Mosely, one of the organizers for UTR and a mod on the Discord was asked about its content. He didn't state that the leaks were fake. Instead he stated that he never promoted violence. Which is true. When asked why he didn't ban those users that did promote violence he never responded.

You would think if this whole thing was "fake news" he would have come right out and said it. Instead hee buried his head in the sand.