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ANTIFA, The Patriots (they're not)

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posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 12:39 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: bastion

What in the blue hell do people fighting against actual fascism in WW2 Europe have to do with entitled bitches imagining fascism in 2017 America and using those delusions as an excuse to riot and tantrum?


Because you and most in the US don't seem to understand or be aware that AntiFA started a resistance to rising facism following the depression at the end of WW1.

It's basic facts and history - unless you're aware how pro-facist you sound to the rest of the world in your posts outside the US, AntiFA didn't start the other week and it isn't an American thing there's international brigades that've existed for 80 years or so. The US interpretation of AntiFA is just this news cycles buzzword. It's completely devoid of any context., relevance, history. When you guys get all 'AntiFA this, AntiFA that' you should be aware of how crazy and insulting you sound to non-US types and be made aware that the same removal of facts (through the media lens as a whole but especially on blogs which no integrity) is why such groups exist and why there's an ever wideninng move even further right than the US already is.

Plus given the dramatic rise of facist-leaning groups in the US after seeing the KKK, Nazi, White Power march and guy, the chants about Jews won't replace us and guy running over protesters the other week - unless you read up on the period between WW1 and WW2 and parellels with the US you may end up sleepwalking into a similar fate.

Comment is free but facts are sacred.
edit on 28-8-2017 by bastion because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian


I don't think it's necessarily surprising that media outlets would be calling out anarchists for violence. What is surprising to me is that some in the media are starting to form a more nuanced understanding of what's going on, and actually beginning to identify some of the people on the other side.


Maybe you're right -- and you probably are to one extent or another.

But I cannot believe that the folks with the greatest resources and access to information of all kinds have been naive... especially because they've sure understood well enough to spin it all in their preferred direction.

However, having said that, I suppose journalists aren't immune to confirmation biases any more than the rest of us. And if they've made mistakes in the past, if they realize their mistakes now and do better, it's a win for us all.

And your point about lumping all protesters into one is also well taken. I think the recent dustup in Dallas between Antifa and the BLM shows the folly of that. Even those they want to lump together are refusing to be lumped together!

And that's a good thing.



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: bastion

Indeed, many arguments here are reminescent of the way the German Nazis were discounted and dismissed early on:




Then you had this period after the Beer Hall Putsch where Hitler came out of prison and a lot of people had forgotten about him. After the Great Depression hit, suddenly the Nazi Party became a major contender for power. Yet you had Americans meeting Hitler and saying, "This guy is a clown. He's like a caricature of himself." And a lot of them went through this whole litany about how even if Hitler got into a position of power, other German politicians would somehow be able to control him. A lot of German politicians believed this themselves.


Emphasis mine.

Source: The Atlantic



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 12:52 PM
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a reply to: XAnarchistX

Like I said, all pretty words... but your walk doesn't match your talk.

As soon as you resort to violence -- or even condone violence -- then you become that which you say you are against. It is what it is. The only reason to use violence is to force your will on others. Period.

If you don't want the name, don't play the game.



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: XAnarchistX

Like I said, all pretty words... but your walk doesn't match your talk.

As soon as you resort to violence -- or even condone violence -- then you become that which you say you are against. It is what it is. The only reason to use violence is to force your will on others. Period.

If you don't want the name, don't play the game.


So, defending one's self and others from violence is identical to violence threatened for political intimidation?

How so?



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: bastion

What in the blue hell do people fighting against actual fascism in WW2 Europe have to do with entitled bitches imagining fascism in 2017 America and using those delusions as an excuse to riot and tantrum?


Because you and most in the US don't seem to understand or be aware that AntiFA started a resistance to rising facism following the depression at the end of WW1.


Yeah, and the Republican Party was the party that ended slavery, pushed massive expansions of federal government, and pushed for stricter regulations of banks long, long ago... times change.



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:04 PM
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“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races ..."

Abraham Lincoln



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66


So, defending one's self and others from violence is identical to violence threatened for political intimidation?

How so?


There is a big difference between self-defense from an immediate and known threat to one's life and limb, and wanton violence as a means to an end -- especially a political end.

There is also a very big difference between facing an immediate and known threat, and creating a violent confrontation -- especially for political purposes.

And that goes both ways -- nay, ALL ways!

Yesterday's wanton violence exemplifies this perfectly. Yesterday's rally's and their sponsors were mischaracterized in the worst ways, even after being informed otherwise, repeatedly. The violence yesterday had nothing to do with self defense. There was no known and immediate threat.

It was gratuitous violence for the worst reasons. Completely unnecessary, unprovoked, and unproductive.



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: XAnarchistX

You are a fool if you think this world is ready for a true system of anarchy.

I'm the type that feels anarchy is the future, but only if it leads to a better world. If you are not seeking an improved society, but rather to indulge some issues with authority.. its probably time to consider to difference between ideals and reality. And the difference between what you want and what your actions are actually achieving.

Do you plan on doing away with hierarchical file systems in computers too? May seem like a silly question (it should), but what distinction is there? Which systems of hierarchy derived from current authority are "ok," and which do you seek to abolish?

The time will come, but before that happens many, many things need to come to pass. The reality is that these actions are hurting the cause, and diminishing the future possibilities of a truly decentralized system of anarchy.

That isn't a coincidence.



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Gryphon66


So, defending one's self and others from violence is identical to violence threatened for political intimidation?

How so?


There is a big difference between self-defense from an immediate and known threat to one's life and limb, and wanton violence as a means to an end -- especially a political end.

There is also a very big difference between facing an immediate and known threat, and creating a violent confrontation -- especially for political purposes.

And that goes both ways -- nay, ALL ways!

Yesterday's wanton violence exemplifies this perfectly. Yesterday's rally's and their sponsors were mischaracterized in the worst ways, even after being informed otherwise, repeatedly. The violence yesterday had nothing to do with self defense. There was no known and immediate threat.

It was gratuitous violence for the worst reasons. Completely unnecessary, unprovoked, and unproductive.


I don't disagree with what you've said, but given the violent statements, intentions, and history of Nazis, White Supremacists, White Nationalists, etc., who have now escalated the violence level to include murder and grievous injury, I do not see the "sides" as equal. Any "side" that stands up against this crap is acting in self-defense.



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:11 PM
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a reply to: XAnarchistX

None of your comrades have died. You are acting like you are part of the Red Dawn movie or that anyone else in another country cares about your privilege of being able to openly protest, conduct violence and then go home for some Hot Pockets and an energy drink.

I would venture to guess you have never been in a real fight and the thought of prison makes you pee a little in your pants. Talk is one thing but when you are isolated your views change quickly.

This is not a game. I was giving you the same kind of warning a good uncle would. Either be prepared to die or stop talking your BS.

The US does not need anarchy. It needs unity.
edit on Augpm31pmf0000002017-08-28T13:12:26-05:000126 by matafuchs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:16 PM
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Antifa seems to be composed of disaffected young Whites, mostly college-indoctrinated but nearly all bent against conservative values by the endless propaganda of the MSM and entertainment. Unemployed and under-employed, some bitter from getting degrees but not jobs, many stuck living with their parents wondering how the hell they're ever going to pay off their student loans.

They have rejected America as we have known it and for generations past; they embrace anarchy in rejection of all governmental authority be it local, national or globalist. Seeing no future for themselves in a society that is seemingly crumbling around them they're angry and looking for an outlet. The Lefts relentless blaming of Trump supporters, White conservatives and nationalists has given them convenient targets. Young people turned against not only their own culture and history but angry at the color of their own skin. Perhaps these are the results of public schools with their social justice and white shame programming bearing bitter fruit.

Every generation has an innate urge to rebel against past generations. Have we reached the end of the nihilism where the lack of absolutes prods the young to find something with meaning? With the handy label of fascism they can release their pent-up anger in an orgy of self-righteous bloodletting, every cut and bruise a battle scar for the cause of "good".
It may exist only in their minds but it is their created reality - they know the media lies, the government lies, what's wrong with lying to themselves?

To quote from Jon Snow when asked why he told the truth which ruined attempts at peace negotiations he replied "when we stop telling the truth words no longer have meaning". Antifa is a creation of a world where words have lost their meaning and can be twisted to fit your agenda. This is a sign of a very deep cultural problem where the thing we all share - our language - is losing it's meaning and it's power. Social change begins with stories, tales that move people and open their hearts to new possibilities. Anarchy is sure to follow before the last wave of totalitarian control puts all mankind in a cage without bars.

Eta: To them I think it's all about trying to find an identity in a world that has already prejudged them by the color of their skin.
edit on 28-8-2017 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

It is time to start taking them out one by one. The people who are leading them. Sorry I did not define that I truly thought based on prior conversations you would know I am not advocating killing kids who are mislead.

A person is smart. People are dumb panicky animals. A great line from a movie that explains the current state of the US.

Fact is that you could set your watch to a protest in the last 10 years based on police actions. If a kid was shot or someone died there would be a riot. There were no large anti KKK protests. There was no racism. Why? Because there was a black president. Suddenly there is an old white guy and the KKK is making a comeback? I would have thought if it was going to swell in numbers it would have happened with Barry O in office. Instead, we saw a rise in those who oppose things they are told to oppose.

I am not afraid of AntiFa, the KKK, White Supremacy or any other hate group. Why? Because for the majority they are posers. Simple as that. Violent in groups and pussies alone. There are exceptions, and I have known a few on both sides who would just assume kill you or a few cops and had no qualms about prison. These kids in the streets are not these people. However, they need to be concerned with these people. Innocent people will die for a cause that will do what? Impeach Trump?

Not gonna happen.




posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: bastion

Indeed, many arguments here are reminescent of the way the German Nazis were discounted and dismissed early on:




Then you had this period after the Beer Hall Putsch where Hitler came out of prison and a lot of people had forgotten about him. After the Great Depression hit, suddenly the Nazi Party became a major contender for power. Yet you had Americans meeting Hitler and saying, "This guy is a clown. He's like a caricature of himself." And a lot of them went through this whole litany about how even if Hitler got into a position of power, other German politicians would somehow be able to control him. A lot of German politicians believed this themselves.


Emphasis mine.

Source: The Atlantic


Sadly I have to agree I'm in no Way claiming Trump, Reblicans or their voters want a repeat of WW2 he did win inthe most devisive campaign in recent political history. Seeing people cheer when he was giving his 'build that wall speech' and the whole Muslim ban thing (is anyone stupid enough to think there's a test for being a Muslim or a Jihadist wouldn't say they're not Muslim to bypass the ban was earilly similar too the early days of the Third Reich and how willing supporters on Reb/Dem sides were to decend into moronic, feverish support and actions of mass stupidity was pretty widely discussed and digusting overhere.

When serious, complex issues are reduced to soundbytes and manifestos, political philosophy has to be dumbed down to entertainment style TV it's incredibly alarming not suprising to see the general public continue to mak the situation worse post election. I see it here all the time, one month it's Muslims, one month it's mexicans, next it's immigrants, then it's antifa etc..... I just hope people get a grip on reality and prefer knowlege and information over turning up to protests with sticks and shields instead of rational arguement and debate.

I don't see how anyone can be suprised with the surge in



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:44 PM
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Antifa is literally ISIS.

ISIS is literally Antifa.




posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: XAnarchistX

Riiiiight.

Okay, then. I keep forgetting that it's the wannabe militant wing of Occupy Wallstreet.

Her zu uns, amirite?

 



originally posted by: XAnarchistX
a reply to: Boadicea

We are not trying to get you to fight with us, you can fall on your own sword if you wish to be submissive, we are not trying to install politicians and platforms, we seek to abolish all forms of politics, we are not trying to install new economic structures, but abolish them and the authority that is inherent to them

we are not trying to force anyone to believe what we believe or to fight with us, we are not white knights and saviours

Fascists didn't have power, Nazi's didn't have power before, but it grew, it grew through political platforms and their "rights" to recruit and assemble and organise

they don't have power now, no one said they did, but Anti-fascism has a goal of stopping it before it begins, that is all


Curiosity must ask: How can you stop something "before it begins"...literally speaking, you'd be stopping nothing, because it's non-existent.

Oh, what you meant was that you are stopping a perceived threat, whether or not it exists yet...minority-report style. Yes, that tactic is sooooo anti-fascist...



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: Deny Arrogance

Antifa is literally ISIS.

ISIS is literally Antifa.



Finkle is literally Einhorn.

Einhorn is literally Finkle.



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 01:50 PM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: bastion

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: bastion

What in the blue hell do people fighting against actual fascism in WW2 Europe have to do with entitled bitches imagining fascism in 2017 America and using those delusions as an excuse to riot and tantrum?


Because you and most in the US don't seem to understand or be aware that AntiFA started a resistance to rising facism following the depression at the end of WW1.


Yeah, and the Republican Party was the party that ended slavery, pushed massive expansions of federal government, and pushed for stricter regulations of banks long, long ago... times change.


Yeah I know, what's your point (history covers most of the world here and as I stated ealier it's only the US that thinks either party is left or right as they're both on the extreme right and extreme authoritarian sector of the political compas.

Are you not aware that nazi/neo-nazi/facist parties still exist in Europe? About how close they have come to power?

Have you seen any of the occurences that've happened in Europe since 2008/9 economic crash? Because sadly we're still having to fight against Nazi parties like Golden Dawn coming 3rd in Greece despite having already had all leaders arrested for being a criminal gang masquerading as a politicalparty with the primary focus on murder, money laundering, armed attacks etc and were still going to fight them as long as we breathe

Sadly I'm pretty sure the answer seems to be no on these boards (not you personally) as people use the same criminal seig heil saluting and goose stepping parties as sources for posts and threads on here with fabricated stories about European migrant crisis, rapes by somalis, fabricatoins about the EU and the like - and sadly a lot of people on here actually believe it's true and start echoing the rally calls of Michaloliakos on here despite him being in jail for getting his 'politicians' to storm a concert and brutallly murder a rapper because he didn't support Nazism.


originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: XAnarchistX
Curiosity must ask: How can you stop something "before it begins"...literally speaking, you'd be stopping nothing, because it's non-existent.

Oh, what you meant was that you are stopping a perceived threat, whether or not it exists yet...minority-report style. Yes, that tactic is sooooo anti-fascist...


No, just basic manners decorum and fact checking
edit on 28-8-2017 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 02:19 PM
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It's not just germane to ATS but to politics and life in general that we not only treat each other with civility and respect but try to understand why people on the opposite side of an issue think that way. We can only do that if we remember our common humanity and exercise some empathy.
edit on 28-8-2017 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: Dfairlite
Now will the leftists on here disavow these crazies?

I'm pretty sure many already have.

Pretty anti-climactic rant.



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