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Preserving Confederate Statues Isn’t Like Preserving Auschwitz

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posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 09:03 PM
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a reply to: neo96

BS. They've been having public meetings on the matter for over two years.

ETA: Also, so now you're in favor of democracy and mob rule?

LOL
edit on 26-8-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Noted




posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 09:08 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

No bs.

7 people made the call out of 49,000 residents who never got their RIGHT to vote.

That isn't representative democracy.

Thats government overreach.



posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Gryphon66

No bs.

7 people made the call out of 49,000 residents who never got their RIGHT to vote.

That isn't representative democracy.

Thats government overreach.


Yeah, more BS.

Those seven people listened to interested parties from those 49,000 for over two years.

Now you want democracy ... we aren't a democracy as you always like to drone on ... we're a Republic.

Those seven people have been elected by those 49K to represent them. IN addition, they've had two years and a study to make the determination.

Here's a copy of the PDF report on the decisions

But, as usual, the actions of government are holy when you agree with them and unholy when you don't.

I'm not surprised at all.

In addition ... the fact is that the City Council has gone far above and beyond what most small municipalities have done to take all positions into account.

You don't like it, so it's overreach. It must be a Saturday.


edit on 26-8-2017 by Gryphon66 because: Spelling



posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: neo96


Early in November 2016, the Blue Ribbon Commission voted 6–3 to let both statues remain in place.[7] On November 28, 2016, it voted 7–2 to remove the Lee statue to McIntire Park in Charlottesville and 8–1 to keep the Stonewall Jackson statue in place,[8] delivering a final report with that recommendation to Charlottesville City Council in December.[9]


Fascism takes only a few 'intellectual' elite.

7 to be exact.

en.wikipedia.org...


49,000 people didn't get a say.

But it's what the people 'wanted' !!!

en.wikipedia.org...


What's your point that same council would have decided to put up the statue in the first place. There's not some huge vote to install a statue you submit it to your city council for approval.



posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 09:49 PM
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More Speak Out for Statues Removal - Charlottesville Daily Progress 9-22-16



The debate over whether the city should relocate its two monuments to Confederate Gens. Robert E. Lee and Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson continued Thursday, as the commission charged with exploring the option held its second community forum.

After the majority of speakers during the first of two public comment periods at a community forum last month said the city should keep the statues, and perhaps add new monuments or plaques to contextualize their historical legacy, a greater number of people calling for removal spoke out Thursday evening at Buford Middle School.


edit on 26-8-2017 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 09:51 PM
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a reply to: fiverx313

S&f these folks are deluding themselves that it's about Southern heritage, the fact is many if not most of these statues were erected during the 1920ts, some as late as the 50ts,during times of raising racial tensions and used as symbols of intimidation, the irony is Lee himself warned against such monuments to a lost cause.
edit on 26-8-2017 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 09:56 PM
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Personally, I say move every statue to museums. Lee was a hero of the America Mexico war and contributed immensely to Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada becoming part of America.



posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 10:26 PM
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originally posted by: tannerc
Personally, I say move every statue to museums. Lee was a hero of the America Mexico war and contributed immensely to Arizona, New Mexico, California, Nevada becoming part of America.


Do you think statues are just randomly placed. Most statues were placed for a reason. For example birthplace or battles. There us always some context to the location



posted on Aug, 26 2017 @ 11:03 PM
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I think everyone in the history books should have a statue where they made history.

Good or bad, white or minority.



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 08:51 AM
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a reply to: ItsNotIronic

In theory I agree with you, but it's not a realistic proposal. Would it really be a good idea to put up statues of Hitler, or even someone like Lee Harvey Oswald? Politics is the art of the possible, people wouldn't get it. There's also a limited amount of public space available, there'd be an inflation of statues, they would loose their meaning.

The job of a statue isn't to educate anyone about history or anything else. It's to build and maintain narratives.



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: neo96

None of it's confusing to me.

Are you claiming now that erecting statues is a speech act?

Are you claiming that the statues aren't being taken down by the municipalities that own them? The citizens who own them?

Can you admit that you want to impose your personal desires and sense of right over their in THEIR OWN COMMUNITY?


Au Contraire' you are very confused and should not be led to believe otherwise in more than just my opinion. As a matter of fact, you are wrapped in a cloud of confusion and diversion and I wouldn't be the 1st to make the connection for you either.



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 09:17 AM
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originally posted by: Willtell

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Willtell
Let em keep their goddam statues

But don’t you dare tell me you’re an American?

America stands for FREEDOM!

Not the preservation of oppression

And worst…

What kind of human being are you?

Not much of one


But the people and governments that actually OWN the statues are the ones REMOVING THEM.

Some folks want to dictate what other people do. It's sad.


All I’m trying to do is reach people's reason, heart and understanding....

For if we don’t reach into the goodness in peoples hearts, something now veiled by many things, we will never be outside of violence and separation…

You, my friend, are a rare voice of reason on this forum...Keep up the good work


How can you think that when he refuses the facts? Oh wait you do too.

Just spouting those things that so many have had a chance to know as proven lies, and then to do it repeatedly like Goebbels stated would be the formula to make it work, hasn't helped you with many here. Using that type of "logical thinking" and I am having little hope you will ever have any of it in the future. Those who refuse to follow common sense as I am witnessing on this thread are going to be in an uphill battle mode for a while IMO.
edit on 27-8-2017 by Justoneman because: gee it needed help



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 10:49 AM
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a reply to: Justoneman

Always good to hear from a fan ... but you should really discus the topic.



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 11:04 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Ever heard of Andersonville?



Where Union prisoners died of starvation and exposure because the South had no food for their own soldiers and US Grant refused to swap prisoners? Where the commander of Andersonville (a Swiss immigrant) became the only person hung for crimes during the war for things he had no power to stop?

Yes, I've heard of it.
What is your point?
I guess the fact more Confederate prisoners died in the Union POW camps doesn't matter despite the fact the North had plenty of food, medicine and blankets ?



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: Asktheanimals


Andersonville was a response to an ignorant claim that nothing in the Confederacy compared to Auschwitz.

However, your argument is that ... like slavery and White Supremacy ... the Confederates had zero responsibility for the way they treated former human beings?

Interesting.



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: fiverx313



I think you better get rid of your computer, smart phone, and high end running shoes, then.


These items are all made in 3rd world cheap labor sweatshops, by people who are paid so little they could arguably be caused slaves. As inanimate objects, they are every bit as representative of slavery as those statues. So when will all the SJWs start throwing these items into neat little piles to protest slavery?


Are we to be against ALL slavery or only the slavery of the pre civil war era in the United States?


edit on 27-8-2017 by openminded2011 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 09:00 PM
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originally posted by: neo96
I got a better idea.

Lets teach statue phobes the meaning of the first amendment.


hey Neo !

I got a better IDEA ,

lets Teach People that the Confederate POW Camp ANDERSONVILLE is a better Comparison to Auschwitz.


and that erasing History , of Historic Visualization, would be a Reminder of what Once Was ..
for what Ever Version of the Story , Robert E Lee/Jefferson Davis Lost The Civil War.

For those that Dont Know

Andersonville Prison
www.civilwar.org...

Andersonville
www.history.com...



For those that Dont Remember the Past are Condemned to Repeat it !

from all that Statues being Removed ,,

Seems like George Orwell aka Eric A Blair was Right
about the

The Ministry of Truth

the States and Feds are :
Re writing History ,

So are we Following Suite with Today's Germany ??
with Anti Symbols ..


( Intended Satire )
The Ministry of Truth
08/05/2017 03:55 pm ET
www.huffingtonpost.com...


Here Should We Ban!

the Jefferson Nickel ???

as the Back Side is Jefferson's Plantation Monticello !

That right People ! a Slave Plantation aka Jefferson's Home
of the Back of a Nickel , funny that Some dont even have a Clue!
let Alone Founding fathers and Presidents Owned Slaves,


Monticello
en.wikipedia.org...



Sad..

Should WE Ban Statues Monuments Painting ART!! of Former Presidents that Had Slaves ?

See How Ridiculous it is , the Banning or Removal Objects of Civil War History ,

Slavery was around the Revolutionary War too and the French and Indian War also


edit on 02017SundayfAmerica/Chicago8238 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: fiverx313

1.) Didn't fight for continuing suffering, though that was the plan most took up arms because they saw Union troops. A Union soldier asked a young confederate boy after capture why he was fighting, boy told him it was because they was there. Though North didn't acknowledge the South had seceeded, the South thought they very much did. And Civil War didn't end slavery, just for South.

2.) That guy standing tall on that horse is Robert E. Lee, his father served with Washington in Revolutionary War. He also ended the war and surrendered for one main reason. The South and North had lossed 20-25% of their total population and he thought enough was enough.

3.) The Nazis killed innocent people. Holocaust is far from the Civil War. Civil war wasn't Ayran vs Jew, it was Brother against brother. Father against son. Neighbor against neighbor.

4.) The statues was made and put there by Unionist, family members, and Confederates. Some was even paid by free slaves in south because some was actually really good to their slaves like Nathan Bedford Forest who after war joined Union and fought for their right to vote. When some died, ones who treated their slaves good was like a loosing a family member to slaves. When war was closing in Forest actually let his personal slaves (who was with him fighting in war) go. Some still stayed.

6.) Top Confederate Robert E. Lee actually disagreed with South putting up statues, it would open old wounds however it was a joint effort by southerners and northerners.

7.) We ain't f-cking Germany. We are not ripping pages out of bible because it's "too antisemitic", we aren't banning flags, and we aren't going to tell people how they should live and think.

8.) One first holocaust deniers was a Jew, not sore loosers in Germany. He went into all those places and called bull# on a lot of it. You can tell he wasn't biased, he just went to study it and found a lot of stuff said was bull.

It seems to me we are loosing History because most of people here see it as hate, or "oppression" and not wanting to learn more about the confederates. They don't think of Lousina Native Guard, black free men who served Dixie during Spanish War and served again during South. You can call it white supremacy, but there was latino, chinese, africans, indians and jews who served valiantly.

For those who dive into the Civil War.. there was some really sad stuff that went on. It's definitely the coldest point in our history and needs to be remembered. To understand the time you must understand mind. You can't be so biased because today wasn't yesterday. Many black slaves down right hated Abe. Funny many think this is all myth.. but you "yanks up North" don't just offend whites in South but a lot of Indian, Latinos, African-Americans, and Asians who are still redneck and waving Dixie flags.

To Live and Die in Dixie. Let us never forget.


edit on 27-8-2017 by Iostsheep because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 27 2017 @ 10:03 PM
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a reply to: fiverx313

I have ancestors who fought on both sides of this war. I have great respect for all of them. But even more so the southern soldiers. The South was greatly out numbered and didn't have the industrial strength or economic power of the North. Many southern men marched into battle without a weapon. They would pick up a weapon of one of the soldiers in front on them WHEN he was killed. The ones on the front had almost no chance.

Greatly outnumbered the South put together a rag tag army and almost won. By that, I mean if they got a couple more victories the political pressure could have forced Lincoln to withdrawal. Also, England was considering getting involved but really needed a few more southern victories before making that commitment.

Stonewall Jackson, who I am told I am related to, was by far the best General of the war. He died from friendly fire, although some say it way Northern spies within his army. If he had lived the most famous battle of the war could have been different. Also the fact that some idiot left behind all of Lee's plans and a Northern soldier found it did not help.

What happened is history. It happened a long time ago. But I love history and respect all of all our fallen soldiers. Yes even the ones who died defending the CSA. I would not have a problem with a General Sherman statue, even though he raped and killed more civilians than any Southern General. He burned farms and killed women and children. He killed more blacks than any Southern General.

Slavery ended in the South before the North. Most northern states had made slavery illegal, but no federal law existed. The three states in the North that still had slaves did so until the 13th amendment.

Slavery was legal in the USA. The southern states were part of the USA and slavery was legal and at that time constitutional. The entire USA was wrong and thank God we are not that stupid now. If the war had never been fought slavery would have ended anyway. I can not say exactly when, but most think in the late 1800's. The political pressure was growing and it would not have lasted. I think all the big power players of the South knew this as well. It would need to be a slow process to avoid total economic collapse though.

As it turned out collapse did occur and the South to this day has not fully recovered. Many of the reconstruction policies were just to punish the South. The people of the South were dirt poor, had been invaded by an army from the North, had everything destroyed, and had Union soldiers occupying their homes. It was very difficult for the poor blacks and whites also. Many of both races became share cropers. That is one step up from being a slave.

I can see why to this day this issue strikes a nerve with people. I for one could not be offended by a statue. I honestly can not think of any statue on public property that would offend me. But I do respect others opinions and know some are offended. My biggest concern is why. If they have researched history and have all the facts and are offended, I totally respect them. If they are offended because the news are some celebrity tells them they are supposed to be then I feel sorry for them.



posted on Aug, 28 2017 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: fiverx313

In 1958 they became VETS of the country legally (US Public LAW 85-425,section 410) ...your feelings be damned .
The GREATER good for ALL humanity is FAR better served by a long memory that succoring activists who can't handle the harder parts of life.
edit on 28-8-2017 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)

edit on 28-8-2017 by cavtrooper7 because: (no reason given)



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