It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Has the 2nd ammendment been taken away in Oregon?

page: 7
25
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 06:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

It's not a matter of pride. We have a huge crime problem in this country and gang-violence overwhelmingly drives our "gun violence" problem, aside from suicides. But again, if gun ownership caused the problem, we would be #1. We have more guns per capita than any other country.


So if gang violence drives our "gun violence" then how do we, as a Constitutional abiding society, disarm the gangs?




posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:00 PM
link   
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

That's a whole other thread, and there's no easy answer to that. Security vs freedom is a complicated issue.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:02 PM
link   
a reply to: face23785

I'm sorry... so you do agree that gun-ownership in a home IS correlated to a higher risk of homicide?

The outcome of the study was...


a gun in the home makes it 2.7 times more likely that a family member will become a homicide victim in the home.


Thanks for playing, you just ended your own argument.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:04 PM
link   
a reply to: SudoNim

I've been waiting my whole life for the world to pass me and mine by. It can't happen soon enough. I'll wave at you all as you go and never miss a single one of you after you're past.

On this topic, however, you've seen my answer. My ancestors fought, shed blood, and died for these rights... I see no reason to peacefully surrender any of them today. "But it's the law" doesn't mean jack when that law is illegitimate. And no, there is nothing aside from knowing my enemy to be gained from entertaining alternate viewpoints on the Constitution. It is as it always has been, the foundation of everything that separates the USA from being just another global whore to the whims of society's mental instability and emotional petulance.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:05 PM
link   
a reply to: SudoNim

Owning a car makes you more likely to be in a car crash. Got any more useless statistics? Can you understand correlation isn't the same as cause? You're completely out of your element here. Stick to subjects within your realm of knowledge.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:05 PM
link   
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Wider usage of the death penalty comes to mind immediately. Very little recidivism from that degree of crime punishment.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:10 PM
link   
a reply to: face23785

Ah the classic car crutch used by the gun-obsessed.

Please do tell me... do you own your car for self-defence? Or does it have another purpose?

Keep trying to move the subject away... you failed to post any data, your sources are actually countering the points you make and all you can do now is ask me to stop.

Educate yourself, think for yourself and come back once your ready to look at the facts.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:13 PM
link   
a reply to: burdman30ott6

So you support anything that anyone in your ancestry ever shed blood for? Or do you just pick and choose the ones you support?

Or.. or is this just another BS excuse you use to justify supporting something... like the proud American patriots who just do as they've been told to do because somewhere in their ancestry someone did it before them and God Help anyone who asks them to change or think for themselves.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

That's a whole other thread, and there's no easy answer to that. Security vs freedom is a complicated issue.


I agree that it is a complicated issue.

I am glad that we are having this discussion, and doing so in a rational manner. It allowed us to come to a consensus of sort...

I want to add another question into the mix, getting back to the OP: Do you think that abuse of the Oregonian Law will be rampant? Do you think that it will have any impact on violent crime?



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Wider usage of the death penalty comes to mind immediately. Very little recidivism from that degree of crime punishment.


Death penalty is not a deterrent, and it costs the taxpayers tons and tons of money....Why should they fear death from the state, when they're facing and delivering death to each other in the street?



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:16 PM
link   
a reply to: SudoNim

You think that's a good point yet we kill more people ON ACCIDENT with cars than we do on purpose with guns which are designed to kill. The only one who needs to be educated here is you. You simply don't understand how statistics work or how to analyze data, but you're brainwashed into your point of view so you think any numbers prove it. 2/3rds of our murders occur with guns. Logically, you can't kill someone with a gun unless you have one. You literally repeated that statistic in another form and are purporting it means having a gun leads to murder, which it doesn't. That's already been discussed heavily in this thread. I'm asking you to stop because you have no idea what you're talking about, and are too ignorant to listen to someone who is more knowledgeable on this subject than you are, so at this point it's like slamming my head in a car door. You simply will not listen to anything that contradicts your delusions.
edit on 25 8 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:18 PM
link   
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Actually death is a deterrent. Criminals who have been surveyed say their number one fear when committing a crime against a person is that the victim may be armed. Why would that be a fear if they're not afraid of dying?



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Actually death is a deterrent. Criminals who have been surveyed say their number one fear when committing a crime against a person is that the victim may be armed. Why would that be a fear if they're not afraid of dying?


I was discussing the "death penalty." Which is NOT a deterrent.
source

I don't know your age, but I remember clearly when car jackers in florida were targeting rental cars...because rental cars at that time had an "R" as the first number in their license plates. Why target rental cars? Because there is a high probability that a person in a rental car is a tourist, and not an armed citizen of Florida... Soon after they changed the policy of the "R" being the first digit on license plates, the car jacking rate went down to a point that was lower than the "pre-R license plate" days.

Criminals are deterred by victims that carry, not by death penalty statutes. And I was speaking to the gang related gun violence in the first place...hehe.
edit on 25-8-2017 by kelbtalfenek because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:26 PM
link   
a reply to: SudoNim

Anything related to defense of this country and our founding documents and principles, yes, I do support.

"Think for yourself" LMAO, that's cute... coming from someone who's arguing people should think they way he/she does where gun control is concerned and ridicules anyone who doesn't. You were your hypocrisy well as you speak in circles.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:27 PM
link   
a reply to: face23785

Then you should discuss whether the risks of owning a car or car ownership outweigh the benefits (travel) of car ownership.

But nice try to steer the debate away from where you were getting owned.

Gun ownership is meant to protect yet studies (since I was willing to post sources and data) show that they actually increate your own risk(and the risk of your family) of being killed/injured.

So clearly the perceived benefit of gun ownership does not outweigh the risk of gun ownership.

I assume you meant 2/3rds of murders occur without guns...

What exactly is your point?
Are you are saying that guns are not needed for murder... but are for protection? You've backed yourself into a corner.

Should we not try and prevent at least some of the 1/3rd?

For such a knowledgable person as you claim to be...

Why don't you post those statistics you were quoting earlier?
Where are your sources?

You seem a bit defensive... go get your gun and sit by your keyboard it might help. I mean its not protecting you in real life so it might at least give you a sense of importance online



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:29 PM
link   
a reply to: face23785

Really?

escholarship.org...

Do you just make this stuff up? If not please post a source of these surveys.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:32 PM
link   
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'm sorry if arguing my case has upset you.

You are condoning the murder of law enforcement officers who don't agree with you.

So you agree with the founding principles of your country? Slavery, womens rights etc etc?



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:32 PM
link   
a reply to: SudoNim

Does he cite any evidence in those 74 pages? The title of it is an estimate. Since when do you have to do estimates if you have hard data?

Meanwhile, what I said is taken directly from interviews with convicts. You can estimate they're lying, but that's not proof.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:33 PM
link   
a reply to: SudoNim

I did discuss that issue with guns. I did give you data, which you ignored. I didn't try to steer anything, I just cited a similar example that may have been easier for you to understand, since you obviously can't comprehend it when it comes to guns. You are simply out of your league here, you don't understand the issue. Read up.



posted on Aug, 25 2017 @ 07:34 PM
link   
a reply to: kelbtalfenek

Do you not think tourists get targeted in countries that don't have high gun-ownership?

What makes you think they targeted tourists because they wouldn't have a gun rather than they are more likely to leave valuables in the car, accidentally leave it unlocked etc etc



new topics

top topics



 
25
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join