Most Americans live paycheck to paycheck

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Logarock

They're legally earning more money than you. If you want their money, you're entitled. Sorry if that term offends you.

Oh you mean those guys that take 10 grand a year from me to pay my medical but then decide to only pay say half of what the Dr wants for the procedure, with deductibles met even? You are really not getting coverage "insurance" from economic stress that you are paying for. And if you don't believe the health care folks gouge you just give it time sonny.

a reply to: Logarock

Don't thank me for that. The fact of the matter is though that if you have enough to get by you're in no position to complain. if you want more, work yourself into a higher paying job or start a business or something. It's not easy and can be risky, but the people you're so jealous of did it and now you just want handouts from them because "it's not fair"? Grow up.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Longwinded way of saying the people who take all the risk earn most of the rewards.

Gee, who'd'a thunk it?

That really is not how it works today with the Big Corporations
With Small Business, YES
With Big Corporations, No

With Big Corporations, a CEO is hired that never built the company from ground up.
The risk is always passed down to people below him. People get laid off or reduction in pay.
And if the company goes belly up, they get a golden parachute and move on to the next company.

Tell me where revolving door CEOs have in skin in the game?

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14



As many have said, the real issue in America is income inequality and the fact that the dividends from the economy and increased production only go to the uber wealthy. It's a class war, not a race war. While race and gender issues are real on some topics, identity politics and all of this hysteria is being used to divide people and distract them from who the real masters are and the fact that 95% if not even more of us are not benefiting from real power, "privilege," etc.

a reply to: toysforadults

See this is where the economic liberals make hay. I don't care about income inequality. Thats not what I am about. I am about getting tooled, cought between the insurance and health care industry. Getting ripped, overcharged so bad your insurance wont cover it ect ect. Its not a strait business transaction.

The old days of Capitalism are gone
What we are stuck with now is Corporatism

How things used to work is, you saved up enough money until you had enough to start your own business.
You did not owe shareholders nor bankers any of the money you earned.
Your number one customer was not shareholders but the people that bought your merchandise.

It was a time when business made high quality goods to compete for customers.
Now Big Business Competes with each other on buying politicians so they can create trade pacts with cheap labor countries

Today, every time a customer buys something, 90% of of the time, a good chunk of your money goes to people in the finance sector that did not earn it. It is free money from your pocket to theirs.

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Logarock

Don't thank me for that. The fact of the matter is though that if you have enough to get by you're in no position to complain. if you want more, work yourself into a higher paying job or start a business or something. It's not easy and can be risky, but the people you're so jealous of did it and now you just want handouts from them because "it's not fair"? Grow up.

Oh there is like some official position you gots to be in to complain? What I make or don't, be labor wage or multimillion its still a transaction. Your are trying to use that old hustler 2,4,6 BS philosophy here witch is typical of your sort. The strong take what they need and bend all to their will.

And by the way me and mine do well. What you think folks that fight back are.....are....what did you say? Jealous? You are the one exposing yourself hear with this its ok to screw the small guy for assorted reasons there oh raptor.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14



As many have said, the real issue in America is income inequality and the fact that the dividends from the economy and increased production only go to the uber wealthy. It's a class war, not a race war. While race and gender issues are real on some topics, identity politics and all of this hysteria is being used to divide people and distract them from who the real masters are and the fact that 95% if not even more of us are not benefiting from real power, "privilege," etc.

a reply to: toysforadults

See this is where the economic liberals make hay. I don't care about income inequality. Thats not what I am about. I am about getting tooled, cought between the insurance and health care industry. Getting ripped, overcharged so bad your insurance wont cover it ect ect. Its not a strait business transaction.

So, you are okay then with over the past 40 odd years, gdp/capita going up but us seeing literally no personal benefit, and that extra bit per person factually has gone to a very elite wealthy group? Because that makes sense..

That issue ties into all kinds of issues that affect all of us, from underfunded programs like education or health care to many people having little stability or life opportunities.

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: fleabit
Unfortunately a lot of conversations around the topic goes this way. Just because you -could- make ends meet and save a little each month by cutting all sorts of corners.. why should people have to do this?

I have a better question, why do you are entitled to have more than that at the expense of other people?

The Republicans have lied to you on this.

It's the opposite, why is a tiny oligarchic elite entitled to virtually ALL of the dividends of the economy, at the expense of 99% of people? Can you answer that?

If workers and customers had any say, as it should be under Capitalism, we would not have had the Bank Bail Outs, we would not have had Obamacare written by the Insurance Industry with insanely high prices, we would not have endless wars, we would not have unlabeled frankenfoods by Monsanto.

Corporatist have way to much power over our country and customers and workers have none.
There is a redistribution of wealth policy going on, but it is not from the rich to the poor but from the poor to the rich
It is done via foreign and economic policies.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
How Corporate Lobbyists Conquered American Democracy

www.opensecrets.org...

Top Lobbying Industries

Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $3,146,090,212
Insurance $2,190,651,832
Electric Utilities $2,013,127,133
Electronics Mfg & Equip $1,823,347,451
Business Associations $1,811,811,643
Oil & Gas $1,715,405,541
Misc Manufacturing & Distributing $1,416,425,661
Education $1,399,862,870
Hospitals/Nursing Homes $1,310,021,801
Telecom Services $1,271,840,866
Securities & Investment $1,264,774,284
Civil Servants/Public Officials $1,216,181,432
Real Estate $1,215,135,758
Health Professionals $1,189,983,794
Air Transport $1,125,384,003
Misc Issues $929,225,311
Automotive $891,793,138
Defense Aerospace $887,354,553
Health Services/HMOs $863,410,051
TV/Movies/Music $851,379,595

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Longwinded way of saying the people who take all the risk earn most of the rewards.

Gee, who'd'a thunk it?

Bull. That's ignorant economically.

We aren't talking about some small business owner.

Most of the ultra rich were born into it. They've lied to you, telling you that this is about criticizing lawyers, or doctors, people with decent income.

That's false, we are talking about a very small elite who literally have shaved off all of the growth in the economy and deposited it into their bank accounts.

This massive corporations that are all interconnected with the political and military establishment aren't some mom and pop rags to riches story, with few exceptions.

The final point is it's impossible literally earn or work THAT much harder than a worker in an organization or normal professionals. You haven't literally worked 1000 or even more times harder than others.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Pardon me. I simply, with out explaining, it was commenting about how "capitalists" tend to play right into the hand. They have this idea about things. Money gives them standing with God Almighty and how they really don't listen or see so well as they think they do, but can count money thats paper and now digital nothing.

a reply to: jacobe001


Great point. So many big deals were kept alive by the government.......and yet the capitalist (to borrow a word) preach their gospel.

I agree with you on many of your points, but prior to the middle of the 20th Century there wasn't much regulation, and things were even worse for your average worker. No workers rights, no time off, no health care, poverty wages, child labor, etc. The "capitalists" didn't share any of that capital for the most part prior to the 20th Century. Now neo liberal right wingers are trying to chip away at the very regulations, and have been since Reagan, that started to really provide a better standard of living for working and middle class people. This idea that unregulated capitalism ever provided for anybody but the wealthy isn't really supported historically. a reply to: jacobe001

originally posted by: face23785
a reply to: Logarock

Don't thank me for that. The fact of the matter is though that if you have enough to get by you're in no position to complain. if you want more, work yourself into a higher paying job or start a business or something. It's not easy and can be risky, but the people you're so jealous of did it and now you just want handouts from them because "it's not fair"? Grow up.

For some reason people like you think of everything in terms of your own experience, you are unable to see from any other point of view than your own.

Not everything is that black and white, the topic is a big one for at least 60% of the population, once you get your head that statement perhaps you will have far greater insight into the issues being discussed.

a reply to: Logarock

My sort? The sort that thinks you're lucky you were born here because you can be doing so bad that you have to come on a conspiracy board and whine about income inequality while you have a roof over your head, food, and internet access? Hey it's a free country, you can complain all you want, my bad. But be prepared to be called out on what an entitled jackass you sound like.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I don't think of everything in terms of my own experience, far from it. If you'd read some of the things I've posted throughout this thread you wouldn't think that. That's ok though, you can form inaccurate opinions of me based on your own misconceptions all you want.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

The ultra rich are a fraction of a percent. There's always gonna be people who are doing exorbitantly well. Cry me a river, "waaaaaaaaaaaaah they have so much money I deserve some of it!!!" The fact of the matter is that most of the rich in this country worked and saved their way into it, which proves it's not just a matter of "winning life's lottery". The fact you are even here proves you have more than you need. Be happy for it, and if you're not, work to get more. You may not be able to, but that's life. You're not born guaranteed everything you want. Jesus to be as spoiled as some of you folks are.

I've been saying it for years now...many say we have recovered from the 2008 crash, but I say we have yet to recover. Sure the stock market is up through artificial inflation/pumping of money into it, but everything else is up too, up in price, especially food and housing. I worked retail in 2008 and saw prices skyrocket and the sizes of products get smaller and smaller for the same price. We are still paying those high prices for smaller sizes. Groceries are a huge chunk of our budget, and we shop at a place cheaper than Wal-Mart.
I'd say that in addition to this, inflation is killing us. Our horrible monetary policy, the trillion dollar bail out, and the printing of money out of thin air has made the purchasing power of our dollar lower than its ever been. We need to fix these things before we just raise minimum wage, which is such a short sighted solution IMO.

originally posted by: Quetzalcoatl14

I agree with you on many of your points, but prior to the middle of the 20th Century there wasn't much regulation, and things were even worse for your average worker. No workers rights, no time off, no health care, poverty wages, child labor, etc. The "capitalists" didn't share any of that capital for the most part prior to the 20th Century. Now neo liberal right wingers are trying to chip away at the very regulations, and have been since Reagan, that started to really provide a better standard of living for working and middle class people. This idea that unregulated capitalism ever provided for anybody but the wealthy isn't really supported historically. a reply to: jacobe001

I agree, historically it has a bad track record.
Capitalist Supporters though will nonetheless point to laissez faire capitalism where all parties have power and those rights we fought and were granted was because of Capitalism, right or wrong.

During the Cold War, a big propaganda piece spread throughout this country was that the Soviet Union Represented Communism while the USA represented Capitalism.

Most were poor in the Soviet Union while most Americans were at their height of prosperity
We were told, look over there, this is why Communism is a failure and Capitalism is the winner
We were able to outspend the Soviets but what was never mentioned was that we had the Petro Dollar on our side and the world was our piggy bank to spread out the inflation from our money printing.

And then we get into bed with Communist China for cheap labor where workers have no rights....
Everything is Propaganda to support to the top few wealthy elite.

a reply to: jacobe001

Agreed. The system is now a upside down funnel. The taxes were cut massively in the early 1980's and trickle down started. It hasn't worked and will not work.