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Nelson's Column is now racist.

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posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:11 AM
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Guardian


Yep, the disabled hero who died at the battle of Trafalgar after leading a fleet comprising 15% African heritage sailors to victory was a racist who didn't have an opinion on slavery so according to this Guardian writer, needs to be pulled down.


I really am sick of these people. Stupid, ignorant and only out to make trouble.

If Nelson hadn't been Admiral, Trafalgar might not have been fought, and if it was, we might very well have lost. the Spanish and French had more, and better gunned ships that the Royal Navy, only Nelson could have come up with the plan to beat them and had the guts to put it into action.

Without that victory, the Royal Navy wouldn't have controlled the seas from 1805 and without control of those seas, Wilberforce's act of Parliament in 1807 would never have been able to be enforced, so slavery would have gone on longer.


This isn't about racism or cultural imperialism, its about people who do not want to be invested in our society and, furthermore, who want to get rid of every single thing they don't like...Well, I would like to propose that, instead of getting rid of statues in the UK, we just get rid of the sort of lame brain that finds them offensive, let them go live in Palmyra or somewhere, a nice, statue free place thanks to their intellectual kin in I.S.
edit on 35pThu, 24 Aug 2017 11:15:35 -050020172017-08-24T11:15:35-05:00kAmerica/Chicago31000000k by SprocketUK because: Palmyra, not Palmira




posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:19 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

Have fun with them.....pretty soon. Every English Imperialist monument will go down. God save the Queen.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:28 AM
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originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: SprocketUK

Have fun with them.....pretty soon. Every English Imperialist monument will go down. God save the Queen.



Tell you what, it is something that has what we call "Middle England" frothing at the mouth in it's understated way.

If this Guardian lunatic's idea ever gets any traction, the poll tax riots will look like a chimps tea party in comparison.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:32 AM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

Good Luck, I'm afraid you'll need lots of it. Need to get Brexit done ASAP. The indoctrination has been going on for decades. Don't get distracted from the real prize, that is what TPTB want you to do.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:35 AM
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originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: SprocketUK

Good Luck, I'm afraid you'll need lots of it. Need to get Brexit done ASAP. The indoctrination has been going on for decades. Don't get distracted from the real prize, that is what TPTB want you to do.


Now that is a very good point.
There is something about these people that hate our country and it's history, our culture and the majority of it's population....They are almost always also rabidly in favour of undemocratic pan national government.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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Just noticed someone else has a thread on this, I searched, but didn't see anything, so if you want to drop the mod hammer on this then feel free.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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I'd rather keep yours open sprocket. You put it better than I did.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:47 AM
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this is getting ridiculous. one wonders where it will lead.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: Funem
I'd rather keep yours open sprocket. You put it better than I did.


Well, thanks for that


Maybe a mod can just throw mine into your thread, keeps things simple.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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originally posted by: RoScoLaz5
this is getting ridiculous. one wonders where it will lead.


Probably to a place where everyone hates everyone else and the very rich look down upon the warring poor with disdain from their high towers in their gated communities.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 11:59 AM
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Nelson was adored by his men. The saying that they would have followed him into hell was originally coined by the men who served under him. No other Admiral has had any of those things said about them. This is because he was openly appreciative of the men who served under him and them feel valued and important, so this latest attempt to destroy monuments and erase important contributions proves how assine this current left wing madness really is.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 12:03 PM
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originally posted by: CulturalResilience
Nelson was adored by his men. The saying that they would have followed him into hell was originally coined by the men who served under him. No other Admiral has had any of those things said about them. This is because he was openly appreciative of the men who served under him and them feel valued and important, so this latest attempt to destroy monuments and erase important contributions proves how assine this current left wing madness really is.



True, and some of that could be said about Gen. Lee from what I have read.

This is, I think more an example of the loathing some on the left feel for the culture and society of the West...The Guardian author only ever writes anti British polemics...Pays better than just shutting up and going to live somewhere she might be happy.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 12:14 PM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

I have noticed this myself over the past decade or so. There seems to be an increase in self loathing of culture within the west, especially with younger generations. They seem only able to see the bad within the western world (to be far there are a few things but that's for another thread) and it's past rather than the good.

No culture or society has ever been perfect in history especially when ever it is judged by contemporary standards.

But removing statues or monuments because it offends someone today is not the way forward. It's a way to ensure we forget what happened. People say "they can read it in books", that doesn't work especially when it's no longer being taught in schools. Very few people are prepared to take an interest in history as it's "boring". At least for then when they see a statue it makes them asks questions.

My partner has very little interest in anything other than teen mom and police drama's. But when she went to London with me and we walked around and saw the sights she learnt a hell of alot.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 12:20 PM
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a reply to: Funem

That's a good point, and aside from the general beauty of places like Trafalgar Sq. When you wander around with your kids, they can't help but ask "Who's that, why is there a big lion, why does that man's horse have one foot off the ground" It's a great way to have a conversation and pass on a little history in the way it was "probably" passed on thousand's of times before. It's especially cool when you see you kids make the connection between, say, the old wooden warship in Portsmouth and the huge stone column in Trafalgar Square and the Fighting Temeraire in the National Gallery there...



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: SprocketUK

Unfortunately my daughters not old enough to ask me about these things yet. Can just about say dada, but I look forward to teaching her about things especially as they don't really do it in schools properly anymore.
After having a look at what American schools teach, I did the same with English (the Scots have a different system) schools. The curriculum is incredibly loose, it just gives periods of time to cover and some examples. The only ones I think that have to be taught are Greek civilization and the halocaust. So it is conceivable that some children may no longer be taught about Nelson or Wellington or pretty much most other historical British figures.

www.gov.uk...

See for your self its not very clear.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: Funem

That's very true about the National curriculum. My wife's school teaches about WW2 as an extra, not because the curriculum demands it, but because it's important. The only way to be sure what is taught is to speak to each school in turn.

Enjoy these years, it won't be long before she's demanding a tenner and a half hour extension to her night out and you are such a Victorian dad!
If nothing else, it gives you time to anticipate some of the questions that will crop up when you do take her older self places.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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New Model Army - Drag It Down

They started work this morning down at city square
They're pulling down the statues of our great grandfather's hero
The new books said he wasn't such a great man after all
And anyway remember that the times they are a-changing …

Pull it down, drag it down, drag it down, pull it down
Until there is nothing to look up to
But the brand names on the posters all around



Art imitates life, imitates art, imitates life...

The lyrics to this song was the first thing I thought of on reading your post!

Sorry. Seems stupidity is contagious. And here I thought the thing to fear most was ebola! *SMH*
edit on 24-8-2017 by TEOTWAWKIAIFF because: formatting



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF




New Model Army


You're on dangerous ground.

The " New Model Army " was raised by Oliver Cromwell. Catholics will be offended.




posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 03:18 PM
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I can understand the desire amongst Irish Republicans to destroy Nelson's Pillar in Dublin, as they did with explosives in the 1950's. British hero, Irish capital city no longer acceptable. Spectacular bomb, go google.

Nelson was a real British hero. The statue is appropriate for London. Leave it be.

That's the thing, though. Appropriateness. Glasgow is littered with statues of Victorian nobodies, many of whom I couldn't name or tell you anything about. Most could be removed without any public concern being expressed.

Doesn't matter if you have a statue. You'll be forgotten about eventually no matter who you are.



posted on Aug, 24 2017 @ 03:25 PM
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James Heartfield, from Spiked Online, is critical of Afua Hirsch's views (she wrote the news article in the Guardian).


Monuments are in their nature conservative, honouring past deeds for us in the present. If one believes that history tends towards a better future, then it must be the case that all history is the history of people with more primitive or reactionary attitudes. But to project our judgments drawn from the present on to the past is surely a mistake. Hirsch objects that by the time Nelson was influential, many people could see that slavery was wrong. Many, it is true, but by no means all. Still, it is a mistake to demand that the past conform to our present-day beliefs.

Hirsch is surely right to say that history is made of good and bad, and that we should acknowledge that. Which is a good argument for not censoring the past but rather enriching our knowledge of it. Evil, as Hegel said, is as much a force for historical change as good. To put forward a version of history that can be manipulated to suit the present, prettified at a whim, seems powerful, but it is ultimately enfeebling, and a celebration of stupidity.



Hirsch thinks William Wilberforce a better hero than Nelson, which on the question of slavery he surely was. But there are other questions. After the cavalry charged 60,000 parliamentary reform protesters near Manchester — carrying out the Peterloo Massacre of 1819 — Wilberforce supported repressive acts against further protests. He blamed ‘noxious doctrines’ for the ‘discontents of the people in Lancashire’ and deplored ‘the spirit of blasphemy and disaffection, which was at present unhappily so prevalent’. He would ‘make no concession likely to give power to those who appeared to seek nothing less than the subversion of the constitution.’ Even the greatest hero, it seems, might have feet of clay.

Trade unionists and democrats might say that statues of Wilberforce should be brought down, outraged at his hostility to the campaign for the vote for working people. But what kind of a message would that be? No. Trade unionists and Chartists since then have happily ignored his Tory hostility to the vote and honoured his history as an abolitionist. (Indeed, the harshest criticisms of Wilberforce were made by hardline anti-slavery campaigners, like Thomas Clarkson and Joseph Sturge, who decried his moderate approach.)


Should Nelson’s column come down?


edit on 24-8-2017 by Morrad because: (no reason given)



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