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If you really want to remember history...

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posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

... well then it's the worst attempt in history...


Everyone else was WAY BETTER at it...

That is akin to McDonald's swapping from coke to Pepsi and people screaming;

"McDonald's is erasing coke from America!!"




Is there a right wing position that is not based on a textbook logical fallacy???




posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 08:56 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Wow, that's great you can speak on the behalf of people you have no common interest with. That's interesting.

Explain again what Robert E. Lee has to do with Racism?

I love how California can suceed from the Union and open a embassy in Russia so they can rig their elections- but they aren't traitors.. the south is.
edit on 23-8-2017 by Iostsheep because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 09:00 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: network dude

Glorification of the civil war has absolutely influenced EVERY single white supremacists group and (separately for different reasons) influenced every militant anti government group..

All of them have adopted confederate iconography...

Every single one.. usually as their main symbols..


Super, does that make whatever symbol they adopt bad?

I really am sorry ATS doesn't have a crayon font, but pretend this next part is in crayon and just read it slowly and often before your pie hole opens again.

"HOW HAVE CIVIL WAR STATUES PERSONALLY DAMAGED YOU, OR HURT YOU IN ANY WAY?"

This isn't about anyone else but you, you alone, only you.


(post by Iostsheep removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 09:03 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

We should nuke the pyramids - we have the internet now, with lots of pictures - who needs the real thing right?

What else can we erase because we have, and I quote, 'books and learned in classrooms'

Classrooms are state-sanctioned indoctrination institutions - you've had a little too much to think I reckon.

We should also nuke America because we have books refering to it.

We should also nuke the whole earth, the moon and all the universe because 'books and classrooms' will be all the history we need - no physical proof necessary.




posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 09:11 AM
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a reply to: Iostsheep

I never said racism... I said treason..

I don't make the slavery/racism argument. It is subjective and there are 1000 different subjective arguments for and against..

Treason however is supremely cut and dry..

A rebellion that leads to the deaths of 200,000+ US servicemen is the definition of treason.. like the textbook definition.


And I don't know where you got "doesnt concern you" from..


As I am a white southerner born and raised in Mississippi with a hand full of confederate ancestors..

They were born Americans , trash canned the US constitution, wrote their own constitution, and fired first killing THOUSANDS of US army members..

You know those same soldiers people pretend to support while flying a confederate flag on the back of their trucks...

Try again..



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

Is some one nuking confederate statues???

In your head did you really think that was a good point???

Should I provide y'all a list from a high school debate class of logical fallacies???

You know things that sound good and mean nothing..

Why would we nuke the earth because the south committed treason against one country..

Our country..



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 09:18 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Not necessarily.

But it is awful convenient every single white supremacists group sports 3 flags..

1) their personal one they create..

2) nazi swastika

3) the confederate stars and bars..



Why do you think it is ok to ignore Lee and Forrests opinion on the matter??

Literally both the 2 biggest figures of today didn't want the confederacy glorified..



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 09:25 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Sublimecraft

Why would we nuke the earth because the south committed treason against one country..



Just because something exists in your head, does not mean it exists in reality or actual human history. What you have stated is commonly known as 'fantasy and make-believe' and to prove my point, I bet that you cannot provide one single authenticated fact which is commonly agreed among ALL historians to back up your cringe-worthy-slop-think.

Standing by.......



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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edit on 23-8-2017 by dothedew because: double post, my bad



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 09:56 AM
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a reply to: pthena



The push to remove the Confederate flag began anew following last month’s shooting of nine worshipers — including the Rev. Clementa Pinckney, a state senator — at a historically black church in downtown Charleston. A day after the shooting, the U.S. flag atop the state’s capitol was lowered to half-staff while the Confederate flag on the statehouse grounds remained flying high.

Photos then emerged of the now-indicted shooter, an avowed white supremacist, posing with the emblem. “The alleged killer of the Charleston nine used that flag as a symbol of hatred and bigotry and racism,” Democratic Sen. Joel Lourie said on Monday.


www.washingtonpost.com... .e149cf082dae

Yes, it was started because of a single idiot. The state government responded in typical knee jerk fashion, by voting to begin removing southern artifacts, starting with the flag. This was the equivalent of changing your Facebook profile pic to include a flag when there's a terrorist attack. It helps no one, and it solves nothing.....

Not to mention, all of the symbolism associated with the guy, including SS flags, nazi flags, so on and so forth. They found something that they could complain about and change, and they did.

The state wanted to do something to appease it's people. This made national headlines, and it was soon decided that monuments could be taken down if they made you upset.

You also throw all of the blame on the supremacists, while ANTIFA and other counter protestors came from across state lines and butted into other's business as well.


edit on 23-8-2017 by dothedew because: source



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: Sublimecraft

By who???

Let's have a source off shall we..

Now what were you stating I got wrong about the civil war???

Please do tell...because I wil have zero problem backing it up with legit historians, while you point to the one voice in the crowd still spouting lost cause propaganda...

A propaganda narrative that even has its own page in every history book and historians lectures...



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 10:47 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: network dude

Not necessarily.

But it is awful convenient every single white supremacists group sports 3 flags..

1) their personal one they create..

2) nazi swastika

3) the confederate stars and bars..



Why do you think it is ok to ignore Lee and Forrests opinion on the matter??

Literally both the 2 biggest figures of today didn't want the confederacy glorified..





So if they start waving the US flag, it will also be a symbol of racism?


Just so I understand your point here, you personally don't have any reason to worry about statues, but because the MSM told you to be concerned, here you are. Is that about right, or am I missing something?


ETA:
this isn't glorification, it's remembrance and reverence.

This one in Alexandria is there to commemorate the confederate soldiers who died there. It was put up in the 1800's 24 years after the war. Don't worry, the City council already voted to move it, so it will soon be gone, (one less for you to stress and cry over).
edit on 23-8-2017 by network dude because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 11:21 AM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: intrptr

... well then it's the worst attempt in history...


Everyone else was WAY BETTER at it...

That is akin to McDonald's swapping from coke to Pepsi and people screaming;

"McDonald's is erasing coke from America!!"


You're confused.

Your scenario was 'going to a town' rounding up people, destroying their way of life, erasing their past, etc.
I showed the modern version of that, an air strike.

Thats not the same as changing brand names of soda, lol.



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: network dude

If it wasn't the flag America presently flies and If white supremacists types are the main people flying the US flag then yes...

You couldn't pull that off with a large nation and a diverse population's flag..

But if white supremacists adopt some obscure flag , then are the majority of the people using it.. it would become synonyms with them..

Exactly like the swastika did.. nazis didn't invent the swastika, but they dirtied it so badly it stuck.. when people see the swastika they think nazis.. not Celtic symbology.. (I think Celtic/Germanic .. can't remember where they stole it.)


No my point has always been that is is insane to glorify traitors to America , by putting protagonist statues at capitol buildings and in US public parks..

That it glorifies treason and rebellion by making heros out of villains..

That it obviously helps validate the very worst of society.. as highlighted by the fact all the worst of society choose that as their symbol..

That is not a hard point to understand and no amount of revisionist history or deflecting will change that..


With the exception of the southern slave states, does America EVER put up statues for the lost lives of terrorists and traitors??

What courthouse has a statue to Benedict Arnold?? (Old Bennie gets a bad wrap, and prob did more for the US than most founding fathers..but is considered a traitor..)



Where is the statue to the 911 terrorists??

What about one that celebrates the valiant deaths of the nazi SS???

There are none...

Because those groups don't have a bunch of people glorifying their actions and making up the most ridiculous claims about how

"the nazis weren't really trying to exterminate the Jews and gypsys.. it was about states rights.. "

Any historian can lay out an iron clad timeline that shows exactly why the very specific politicians who orcastrated the war did so.. and What propaganda they pushed to validate it...

Everyone but the southern fire eaters trying to cease power knew rebellion was a HORRIBLE idea..

Jeff Davis knew it was stupid.. Lee knew it was stupid.. they were all really just along for the ride, but all the blame ends up at their feet.






edit on 23-8-2017 by JoshuaCox because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: intrptr

I was comparing changing cola to removing the confederate statues from public (tax payer paid) property..

Which I think fits perfectly.. coke is still available, you just gotta go to burger king or any other place that has it.. exactly the same as moving staues to private property.. they are still there.. all the history books are left unburnt..


You were comparing removing the statues to private property with "erasing history" as the romans and others have actually done..

Which is just ridiculous...



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 11:40 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Nobody is tearing down cocacola factories. Theres a reason nobody protests them or other large corporations. Missed the mark again.
Wake me when protesters demonstrate outside the Pentagon, The State Department and Lockheed.



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: intrptr

It was an example..

I'm saying removing the statues to private property has the same variables as if McDonalds changing from coke to Pepsi..

Coke would still be available..

The statues/civil war history is still available..



It is not erasing history unless we were burning the primary sources and outlawing confederate iconography..

That is erasing history..

Not moving the statues of traitors to private property...



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: intrptr

It was an example..

I'm saying removing the statues to private property has the same variables as if McDonalds changing from coke to Pepsi..

Coke would still be available..

The statues/civil war history is still available..



It is not erasing history unless we were burning the primary sources and outlawing confederate iconography..

That is erasing history..

Not moving the statues of traitors to private property...

willfully ignorant. Removing statues is just one part of the erasure. Who you covering for?



posted on Aug, 23 2017 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Really...

From faithandAmericanhistiry.com..

Is that actually a white supremacists site or does it just sound like one....lol


If that doesn't scream "lost cause " and "conservative think tank" I don't know what does..

I'm rushing for school, but will post a couple dozen working southern historians , with confederate ancestry. Who will happily point out everything I've said about souther fire eaters.. a specific group of people not a nickname for a social group..


Lmao... it's a Christian site telling Christians how they should think about history...

Think it goes indepth on how all the "southern baptists churches " are called "southern " because they backed slavery.. even saying it's gods plan???

Or ya think they convienently leave that out






Sorry, perhaps I mistook you for someone who genuinely wanted to learn about history. I put a disclaimer about the blog title, he makes no mention of religion in the entire article. Did you even read the quoted text about the Southern and Northern myths about the Civil war being wrong? He explains it quite clearly and he's very qualified to do so as chair of the history department at Wheaton college.

No Confederate was ever convicted of treason.
Nobody was killed in the firing on Fort Sumter.
The Union armies invaded the South.
They did not do it with the intent of ending slavery.



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