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If you really want to remember history...

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posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox


You just seem scared to explain stuff to your children, that's why you want to get rid of stuff. Why not put the truth on the plaques. Why not have a statue that says this guy was a bastard because of XYZ? This would teach so much more than a void.

Humans are so stupid that they repeat their mistakes over and over and over and over and over.
Mostly because morons have got rid of anything reminding others of the past.
Auschwitz is not a statue but it's still a monument and it teaches more history than if we burned it down. You have to agree to that.

Statues can be used in exactly the same way.

But nooooooooooooo, lefties or isis nutters or communists or whoever thinks they are the cleverest at the moment have always destroyed anything that could make following generations ask questions.

Lalala, I can't hear you or see you, so everything is fine in our safe space world. Blooming heck.

No wonder they are repeating mistakes. You lot are doing it right now.




posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

Yes, during that era. Then after the war, both sides came to together and erectes these statues as a testament to our past.

American POV? Confederates WERE Americans, brothers fighting brothers. Hence, an American history POV.

I'm not stupid enough to look at these old statues and say, "racist fools!!", rather, "lets not make the same mistakes of our past."



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:53 AM
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originally posted by: Hecate666
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Statues are there to address people who may not be natives or children who have not read about history yet. Not all history comes from books. I would prefer someone to stop and sa: "who is this guy/woman?" and then read the plaque and then learn something. You sound as if everyone who ever steps foot into a country knows all the history or has nothing better to do than read up on it before visiting.

Statues are visual, they have far more of an effect than a book that needs a) knowing about b) finding and c) reading.
A statue can teach history in a few seconds. That's why they are important.


Then legally have plaques attached to these statues with the true history a plaque of shame documenting for future generations their atrocities,crimes etc.. Because just destroying them illegally is just a dangerous slippery slope, and honestly there are other more pressing issues out there.

Personally it isn't even in the top 100 things I worry about one way or another, but got to find a way to get back to the stuff that does matter. Like the Afghanistan reversal, our economy, the healthcare question instead we are worried about a statue.

Seems to me finding a compromising position would be more advantageous than destroying them, unless the goal is incite and inflame these extreme factions.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: JoshuaCox

When you let any single ideology determine how history should be remembered, then you're in an authoritarian regime.

Oh look! Guess what the leftists want to do!

Here is my surprised face.




posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:55 AM
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I smell a ghostwriter in our midst.




posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Yes, during that era. Then after the war, both sides came to together and erectes these statues as a testament to our past.

American POV? Confederates WERE Americans, brothers fighting brothers. Hence, an American history POV.

I'm not stupid enough to look at these old statues and say, "racist fools!!", rather, "lets not make the same mistakes of our past."


Exactly!
Quoted again for truth.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox

The whole concept that removing confederate monuments from state property, where tax payers are responsible for any maintenance , is erasing history is just stupid..


I was undecided about taking these statues down until someone explained it to me this way:

Should we have a monument of separate water fountains "in your face" in the public square that you are forced to see every day - - as you walk by?



NO, a history museum that you choose to see this - - is far more appropriate.


edit on 22-8-2017 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:08 PM
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a reply to: Annee

where does it end? Just with the statues? Or do the roadside plaques need to go as well? They tell stories of civil war battles that happened, is that not just as offensive?

Perhaps you will be the first to answer this question.

How have civil war statues personally hurt you or damaged you in any way?



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:10 PM
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a reply to: Annee

...and have you seen this water fountain monuments? Where are they and how is it relevant to civil war statues?

After the civil war, a society was experiencing a massive soceital transformation of acceptance. Some terrible social things occured, like the water fountains, but eventually dropped from society, yet the statues remain.


edit on 22-8-2017 by Arnie123 because: More.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:13 PM
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I think this was a very thoughtful OP.
The statues were paid for by other people and left for future generations as reminders of the bravery and sacrifice made by the South in their bid for independence.
By the same token Southerners could claim all the statues of Grant and Sherman up North are offensive to them, reminding them of the needless destruction wrought upon the South - the burning of Atlanta, Columbia, Fredericksburg and countless small towns and homes. All the livestock, crops and valuables stolen but most of all the lives taken in their relentless pursuit of bringing the Southern states to heel under the Federal government they sought to escape from.

Thank you for bringing up the post war activities of Forrest and Lee, many others like William Mahone started a college for blacks only and Maj. Gen, John B Gordon would become a Georgia legislator and work tirelessly to mend the wounds of war and bring the country back together. These are extremely worthy of monuments but it was the near-mythological status of the war leaders that Southerners put the most pride in. They felt these men were the embodiment of Southern values of honor, sacrifice and duty. There didn't seem to be any objection from anyone at the time the monuments were erected (1910 -1960 roughly).

My main objection to removing them is it will not stop with Confederates and it hasn't. Columbus' statue in Baltimore was defaced and the statues of Supreme Court Justice Roger Taney have been taken down (he wrote the opinion on the Dredd Scott case). The list will keep growing.

Destruction of the monuments is out the question imo. Moving them to Confederate cemetaries or museums would alright with me. Even if we do that the monuments will still be defaced and others added to the list as the rewriting of American history rolls on.

S&F from me.
edit on 22-8-2017 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-8-2017 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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a reply to: Annee



I was undecided about taking these statues down until someone explained it to me this way:

Should we have a monument of separate water fountains "in your face" in the public square that you are forced to see every day - - as you walk by?


You assume that the separate water fountains are offensive only to black people.

Expand your ideals.



.
edit on 22-8-2017 by seasonal because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:18 PM
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I wonder what relations with First Nations would be like today, if the first colonists hadn't destroyed their monuments and censored their oral history?



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:21 PM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Annee

where does it end? Just with the statues? Or do the roadside plaques need to go as well? They tell stories of civil war battles that happened, is that not just as offensive?

Perhaps you will be the first to answer this question.

How have civil war statues personally hurt you or damaged you in any way?


It doesn't end and it has nothing to do with history or being offended. It's all about getting what they want and being stirred into a furor by outside money and agitated to create chaos.

The globalist agenda has to stop Trump by creating this fake divide. Nobody was taking these down for 8 years under a president that likely would have agreed with it. It's all manufactured, like OP suddenly having an issue with it... because he's told to care.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:23 PM
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originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Hecate666

Your right they are visual and tell tiny bit of the story..

What story is a confederate general sword held high proudly charging into battle telling???


Is that an accurate tidbit of the story to tell???

To use a professional wrestling term..Are those "heel" statues or are they "baby face" statues??

They are protagonists statues not antagonist statues..

That is not the American side of that story to tell..


One thing about the Civil War was that Generals didn't stay in the rear, they led from the front. The Confederates lost 6 Generals in a single charge; not at Gettysburg but at Franklin Tennessee, a battle few but real history buffs even know about. Here's a list of 70-80 Confederate Generals killed in battle not including those died from disease or while in POW camps:
www.civilwarhome.com...



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:24 PM
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originally posted by: Ksihkehe

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Annee

where does it end? Just with the statues? Or do the roadside plaques need to go as well? They tell stories of civil war battles that happened, is that not just as offensive?

Perhaps you will be the first to answer this question.

How have civil war statues personally hurt you or damaged you in any way?


It doesn't end and it has nothing to do with history or being offended. It's all about getting what they want and being stirred into a furor by outside money and agitated to create chaos.

The globalist agenda has to stop Trump by creating this fake divide. Nobody was taking these down for 8 years under a president that likely would have agreed with it. It's all manufactured, like OP suddenly having an issue with it... because he's told to care.

Absolutely and I agree, hence the whole, where was the outrage BEFORE?



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: Ksihkehe

I have yet to get ONE person to explain how the statues hurt them. It seems everyone is getting angry for others, you know, just in case they were to oppressed to have their opinion heard. (SJW) There may not be anyone who actually does care about them, just those who are telling everyone else to be angry.



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:30 PM
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originally posted by: Arnie123
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Yes, during that era. Then after the war, both sides came to together and erectes these statues as a testament to our past.

American POV? Confederates WERE Americans, brothers fighting brothers. Hence, an American history POV.

I'm not stupid enough to look at these old statues and say, "racist fools!!", rather, "lets not make the same mistakes of our past."


I would add that by act of Congress all Confederate veterans are to be treated as American armed forces veterans receiving equal treatment and honors. That would include these statues that are suddenly so contentious.
edit on 22-8-2017 by Asktheanimals because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:49 PM
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I agree...but in all other avenues there changing left and right......Lee St for example in Greensboro, is now Gate City Blvd ...Charles B Aycock middle school....now Mel Swann middles school...Guilford county has 4 Confederate statues/memorials......Two statues....both in cemetery's , two memorials in the downtown area. And yes, thank you Pat McCrory. The two in the cemetery's are grave markers for true confederate soldiers. It's a felony to mess with these. Not to mention just down right stupid.a reply to: network dude


edit on 22-8-2017 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: Arnie123
NO.

Some statues were relocated, other blatantly cut down. They are a memorial of our past, to remind us of our prior actions, good AND bad.
Where was the outrage during the Obummer era? a black president would have denounced them then, right?
Just people being idiots, that is all.

Wonder how Barry felt when they removed HIS statue in Kenya ?



posted on Aug, 22 2017 @ 12:57 PM
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History is written in books and learned in classrooms.


No it isn't,

A whitewashed version of it is.

Real history is learned from a variety of sources.

Historical monuments is just a piece of them.

Where there is literally dehumanizing of people from whatever era.

That's a very big problem that should not be happening.

As far as American history goes.

The STATE has done a lot of snippy things to ALOT of people.

It's own citizens, the people that were here before us, and people in other countries.

But demagogue one side of a historical era.

Is the antithesis of intellectual honesty.




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